Author Topic: Is Kevin Love Overrated.  (Read 42132 times)

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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2014, 08:13:37 PM »

Offline Mazingerz

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Yes, he is, but he's Celticsblog's current favorite overrated player.

I wouldn't trade the farm for him, Melo or Asik.

Marc Gasol and/or Lamarcus Aldridge are a much better fit with Rondo and they can be important on both sides of the ball. Be patient and trade for them in February 2015.

Naw.

Rondo is.  ;)

Nah. Most people here want to trade rondo.
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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2014, 09:24:21 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I think the hype around Love is getting a little inflated but I think it is because he is being viewed as a player that can get another even better player such as LeBron or Melo.  I don't know if that is the case or not but it seems that people are remembering how Ray Allen led to Kevin Garnett and may be willing to over bid for Love for that reason.

I am still in for going pretty high to get Love and pairing him with Rondo and then seeing who else we can attract.  It is not a sure path to success but probably more likely than drafting and hoping an 18 year old turns into a star in 3 years.

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2014, 09:36:16 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Quote
The guy is a mad chucker some games

Hate this. He is the best offensive weapon they have. Corey Brewer shouldn't be shooting more than him. He is option #1 in Minny.

Quote
@Eddie20 Kobe, Melo, Griffin, Noah, Dirk, Howard, Wade, Pau Gasol would have lead this team to the playoffs more than one time.

Seriously?  ??? None of these guys could have brought this roster to the playoffs. James is the only definite.
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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2014, 09:38:42 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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The reason this question is being asked is because people on this forum don't like the potential cost being discussed. His game speaks for itself. He is one of the league's best players...and only 25.
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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2014, 10:50:46 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Marc Gasol and/or Lamarcus Aldridge are a much better fit with Rondo and they can be important on both sides of the ball. Be patient and trade for them in February 2015.

Why would either of them want to leave where they are, why would they want to come to Boston and why would their current teams want to trade them.

Mike

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2014, 10:58:22 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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Marc Gasol and/or Lamarcus Aldridge are a much better fit with Rondo and they can be important on both sides of the ball. Be patient and trade for them in February 2015.

Why would either of them want to leave where they are, why would they want to come to Boston and why would their current teams want to trade them.

Mike

LMA wouldnt want to leave but Marc Gasol would probably be cool with coming.

The Grizzlies need to blow it up and start anew. They are a treadmill/bounced in the first round type of team. Grizzlies would probably trade him for the right package. Also Boston is closer to Spain ;)

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2014, 10:59:53 PM »

Offline KamikazeK

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I think Danny is crazy if he doesn't do what it takes to pair Love with Rondo.

If Danny has to give up a handful of magic beans like draft picks or role players to get a golden goose like Kevin Love then so be it because quality trumps quantity, especially in pro sports. As an example many people thought Phoenix overpaid in 1992 for a short and overweight forward with elite offensive and rebounding skills but questionable defensive ability. That deal worked out pretty well for them. It didn't work out so good for Philly.

Danny can keep collecting draft picks and average or above average players any time. They're all pretty common and easily replaceable. He also has a knack for finding cheap and half decent talent from unorthodox places: undrafted Vitor Faverani from Europe, Terrence Williams from China, Chris Johnson from the D-League, etc. But getting a player from the NBA's slim top shelf talent pool isn't so easy.

Agreed. DA needs to get this done, if he can.

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2014, 11:11:48 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Safe to say there isn't a single person on this forum who has watched love play more than a handful  of games per year. I'd say 2 max for most cb posters... And they weren't really paying attention to Love during the game.

So you have two factions here.

#1 - Celtic fans who have heard love is a poor defender and thus call him overrated

#2 - Celtic fans who see Love is statistically a top 3 player and thus call him underrated.

Doubtful anyone here actually has first hand knowledge of kevin loves game.   I'm including myself, of course. I never watch the wolves.

I've watched over 75% of the Wolves games over the last 2 seasons. He's definitely overrated, and his numbers are relatively inflated because the team is awful, but he's not a bad player. 'Potential MVP' is a reach, but 'Perennial All-Star' is not.
Fine.  I'm wrong.  WHy in the heck did you watch 75% of the Wolves games over the past 2 seasons?  Do you live in Minny?

Hardly -- I split League Pass with a few other people, and one of the dudes is a big Minnesota/Kevin Love fan. Makes for a good West Coast game after the Celtics most of the time.

That explains a lot.  I suspect a little personal bias. 
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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2014, 11:52:38 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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i really like love's game and would want him in green.....however, his being a bit injury prone worries me when you factor he would be here on an extended contract (most likely).

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2014, 12:26:08 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Safe to say there isn't a single person on this forum who has watched love play more than a handful  of games per year. I'd say 2 max for most cb posters... And they weren't really paying attention to Love during the game.

So you have two factions here.

#1 - Celtic fans who have heard love is a poor defender and thus call him overrated

#2 - Celtic fans who see Love is statistically a top 3 player and thus call him underrated.

Doubtful anyone here actually has first hand knowledge of kevin loves game.   I'm including myself, of course. I never watch the wolves.

I've watched over 75% of the Wolves games over the last 2 seasons. He's definitely overrated, and his numbers are relatively inflated because the team is awful, but he's not a bad player. 'Potential MVP' is a reach, but 'Perennial All-Star' is not.
Fine.  I'm wrong.  WHy in the heck did you watch 75% of the Wolves games over the past 2 seasons?  Do you live in Minny?

Hardly -- I split League Pass with a few other people, and one of the dudes is a big Minnesota/Kevin Love fan. Makes for a good West Coast game after the Celtics most of the time.
Fair enough.  As our resident Kevin Love expert, care to answer some questions?

#1 - Is Love's defense as bad as everyone thinks or is defense just not a priority in Minnesota?  I've seen systems transform players before... Pierce and Ray weren't really considered great defenders prior to merging of the Big 3 and the implementation of a defense-first mentality.

#2 - Some folks say Love isn't a shot-creator.  Is this accurate?  He's a top 5 scorer in the NBA and appears to do it rather efficiently.   Is he just hitting open shots or is he doing work?

#3 -  Having watched 75% of the T-Wolves games, how do you feel Rubio compares to Rondo.  Do you imagine Love's productivity/efficiency would improve, stay the same or get worse next to Rondo? 

#4 - Is Love's passing overrated?  My impression is that he's an elite passer for a big.  Is that overblown?  Can you run an offense through him?  Would the Wolves have been better just running the ball through Love and replacing Rubio with a capable shooter... or does he need an elite playmaker to be effective?

#5 - What particularly do you feel makes Love overrated?  You seem very opposed to bringing him in.  This team lacks scoring and rebounding... seems Love is elite at both... wouldn't he be a big help? 

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2014, 12:48:37 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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i really like love's game and would want him in green.....however, his being a bit injury prone worries me when you factor he would be here on an extended contract (most likely).

I'd be injury prone too if I had to play for/in  Minni. ;)

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2014, 01:30:17 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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That explains a lot.  I suspect a little personal bias.

It's entirely personal bias.  I was briefly excited about the Wolves last year, 'cause of Brandon Roy, but that's it. I like Corey Brewer, too -- even though he's got the opposite problem, in that people think he's a better defender than he is.


Fair enough.  As our resident Kevin Love expert, care to answer some questions?

#1 - Is Love's defense as bad as everyone thinks or is defense just not a priority in Minnesota?  I've seen systems transform players before... Pierce and Ray weren't really considered great defenders prior to merging of the Big 3 and the implementation of a defense-first mentality.

#2 - Some folks say Love isn't a shot-creator.  Is this accurate?  He's a top 5 scorer in the NBA and appears to do it rather efficiently.   Is he just hitting open shots or is he doing work?

#3 -  Having watched 75% of the T-Wolves games, how do you feel Rubio compares to Rondo.  Do you imagine Love's productivity/efficiency would improve, stay the same or get worse next to Rondo? 

#4 - Is Love's passing overrated?  My impression is that he's an elite passer for a big.  Is that overblown?  Can you run an offense through him?  Would the Wolves have been better just running the ball through Love and replacing Rubio with a capable shooter... or does he need an elite playmaker to be effective?

#5 - What particularly do you feel makes Love overrated?  You seem very opposed to bringing him in.  This team lacks scoring and rebounding... seems Love is elite at both... wouldn't he be a big help? 

Expert I am not, especially since he was out most of last year.

1 -- Some of it is systemic, since the Wolves are/were much closer to 'outscoring' than 'contesting shots'. Some of it was Love being hidden on the less aggressive big, some of it is simply that he doesn't think defensively: That's dangerously close to being one of those dumb 'hot sports takes', but he's a bad defender who doesn't really seem to commit himself to the idea that 'yes, I can stop this guy from scoring the basketball'.
The salient number for that, then, is the fact that his opponent's FG% at the rim is 57.4%, and that's based on the roughly 9 opponent field goal attempts a game. (The whole team's D, by the way, was awful -- their best defender was Ronny Turiaf.) Love is not a good defender, and he absolutely needs to be paired with one in the front court if he's going to be on a winning team.

those numbers are here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDefense.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&filters=TeamAbbr*E*MIN

2 -- depends on what you mean. He's not a Paul Pierce, he's not a guy you give the ball to in isolation, and he never drives to the  hoop. Ever. He played in 77 games last year and only drove 84 times. Despite that, he still gets to the line 8-9 times a game, so its not like he needs to do that, necessarily, to get his points. His post game is underrated, maybe, because of his range, so he's great on the offensive end for the threat he provides. He's the Platonic ideal of a stretch four, but he's not an offensive juggernaut, in that you don't get that sort of awed feeling when he has the ball, if that makes any sense.

those numbers here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&filters=TeamAbbr*E*MIN

3 -- Rubio, right now, was the worst case scenario everyone was throwing around before Rondo got back to the injury. The guy is still one of the most effortlessly amazing passers out there, but his team is crap (and that assessment includes Kevin Love). Rubio desperately needs to be surrounded by quality teammates in order for him to play well. Love might play better next to Rondo, but I suspect their relationship on the court will be relatively similar -- the difference is that Boston will most likely be able to field a much better team around them.

4 -- His outlet passing is superb. And, partly because he's not a guy who can break you down, Love passes the ball a lot -- he needs the ball in his spots. He doesn't make many passes that end in free throw attempts, but to put it in perspective: he passes the ball more than Sully and Olynyk combined.
[passing data here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&filters=TeamAbbr*E*MIN&sortField=PTS_CRT&sortOrder=DES



5 -- his rebounding is slightly overrated: almost 2/3rds of his boards are uncontested, and he's literally the only one mopping up the glass on either end of the floor. That said, beyond the fact that I'm not enamored with Love's game aesthetically, I'm all in on bringing him here, provided the price isn't too heavy on draft picks.  He's significantly better than any of our bigs, and Rondo + Love isn't a terrible starting point for re-entry into the playoffs. I don't think he's worth the 'Big Ticket' price that many trade scenarios here envision, even though I agree that our assets, as far as real players go, are not that exciting.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 01:43:27 AM by D.o.s. »
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Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2014, 08:04:29 AM »

Offline cman88

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heres the thing, Fans on this board are afraid of giving up assets to get a 25ppg, 10rpg player in hopes that one of those picks will be a 25ppg, 10rpg player...

i say you go for the sure thing as we have seen how hard it is to get an all-star calibar player. is he overrated? by whom? he's an allstar calibar player who is only 25years old. If you lock up him and rondo you are looking at not just 5year window(as you had with Garnett/pierce/allen) but possibly a 10year window.

and he can hopefully allow you to lure another all-star into boston for a new big 3.

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2014, 08:07:42 AM »

Offline Mr Green

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Underrated by people who think that he isn't good enough to be a potential MVP.

This is where he is overrated. I don't see Love ever winning an MVP.

Yeah, I don't think I can see Love ever winning an MVP.

As long as LeBron, Durant, and (maybe) Anthony Davis are in the league and in their primes, I have a hard time seeing anyone winning an MVP other than those 3 players.

But that shouldn't be a knock against Love.  Those are once in a generation type players we're talking about.  Plenty of other HOF players have never won a MVP.

Interesting that Kevin Love is regularly criticized because he 'never led his team to the playoffs', but Anthony Davis is regularly heralded as the next in line for the MVP throne despite not making the playoffs either.

Last season in 77 games Love averaged 26.1 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 4.4 assists. Davis over 67 games averaged 20.8 points, 9.1 rebounds, and 1.6 assists. Minnesota finished the season 40/42 while New Orleans finished 34/48.

Love is only four years older than Davis...

Re: Is Kevin Love Overrated.
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2014, 08:09:09 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Underrated by people who think that he isn't good enough to be a potential MVP.

This is where he is overrated. I don't see Love ever winning an MVP.

Yeah, I don't think I can see Love ever winning an MVP.

As long as LeBron, Durant, and (maybe) Anthony Davis are in the league and in their primes, I have a hard time seeing anyone winning an MVP other than those 3 players.

But that shouldn't be a knock against Love.  Those are once in a generation type players we're talking about.  Plenty of other HOF players have never won a MVP.

Interesting that Kevin Love is regularly criticized because he 'never led his team to the playoffs', but Anthony Davis is regularly heralded as the next in line for the MVP throne despite not making the playoffs either.

Last season in 77 games Love averaged 26.1 points, 12.5 rebounds, and 4.4 assists. Davis over 67 games averaged 20.8 points, 9.1 rebounds, and 1.6 assists. Minnesota finished the season 40/42 while New Orleans finished 34/48.

Love is only four years older than Davis...

4 years is like a third or a quarter of an NBA star's career, though.