Could a Sully/Olynyk frontcourt work with Aaron Gordon at SF (and PF)?

[jc3celticsphan]

Gordon does have point forward aspirations like Scottie Pippen. He has solid handles, great vision in the open court, and he seems extremely intelligent. He wants to be a coach after his playing days and I think he'll be a good one.

He may not be Magic Johnson, but he can make plenty of magic on the fast break, and is a coast to coast threat every time he gets a defensive rebound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0Hj7mzzjqY

TP (noone notices his ball handling and passing but hes very smart player) exactly why i think hes a good fit crazy upside in stevens system with his passing and the ball movement also has a motor green doesnt have its just a matter of him and rondo knocking down shots you can play him with green and/or bradley and i like the depth of the team.

[Tr1boy]

I'm excited to see both KO/Sully start the next season in great conditions. Both guys at certain parts of last season were absolute studs and just need to do it on a more consistent basis (stamina, experience).  I'm really hoping to see this frontcourt trio happens for next season.

KO, Sully, Gordon

Just oozing with so much iq , skills and motor.  Gordon's above the rim play will help bail KO and Sullinger out in certain defensive situations . And Sullinger/KO skills/shooting will bail out Gordon on the offensive end . 

We then draft a shooting machine like Hairston at 17 and this will be a young but an exciting lineup.  With a healthy Rondo and some added bench help with trading Green, Bass and we have a good chance to make 8th place

[footey]

Love Gordon, but think we would still have to trade for a defensive 5, in which case Kelly and Sully could rotate both at the 4 and back up 5, which would give them plenty of minutes.

[gar]

OK this thread is an example of why CBlog has lost all cred and most of its serious posters. Yes Gordon is a hot prospect; but Olynyk is not a "good" rebounder and certainly not a SF as one poster suggested. Get real.

Olynyk and Sullinger are two "unique" players as in challenged players. Rondo is "challenged" by his lack of shooting. Gordon has potential to become a complete player and since Danny is known to draft on athleticism (see Rondo, Bradley) he is more of a clear preference; however he cannot make up for the C's lack of interior presence and this must be addressed.

[Celtics4ever]

Olynyk and Sullinger are two "unique" players as in challenged players. Rondo is "challenged" by his lack of shooting. Gordon has potential to become a complete player and since Danny is known to draft on athleticism (see Rondo, Bradley) he is more of a clear preference; however he cannot make up for the C's lack of interior presence and this must be addressed.

Great post , way to knock off some of those green shaded glasses !   TP

[NorthernLightning]

OK this thread is an example of why CBlog has lost all cred and most of its serious posters. Yes Gordon is a hot prospect; but Olynyk is not a "good" rebounder and certainly not a SF as one poster suggested. Get real.

Olynyk and Sullinger are two "unique" players as in challenged players. Rondo is "challenged" by his lack of shooting. Gordon has potential to become a complete player and since Danny is known to draft on athleticism (see Rondo, Bradley) he is more of a clear preference; however he cannot make up for the C's lack of interior presence and this must be addressed.

KO rebounded at a slightly above average rate, I believe, as a rookie. He surpassed expectations with his rebounding and he will only get stronger. He'll at least be average, because he already is. Pre-season predictions by "serious posters" notwithstanding.

The fact is that there are no great choices for defensive centers in this draft outside of Embiid. In next year's draft there will be a bunch of them.

Gordon is everything you could ask for from a SF defensively, especially as he gets stronger. He wouldn't cover up every single mistake or mismatch by Sully and KO, but he can sure help a lot, playing both 3 and 4.

Nobody said it would be the perfect defensive frontcourt, but it would be a pretty good one over all, and all three are young, cheap, and improving.

And the fact is, KO and Sully are perhaps more vulnerable to getting burned by elite PFs as they are by centers. And there are more athletic scoring PFs than there are mamouth centers that a stronger KO and Sully can't at least do a decent job on.

Even if we trade the farm for Love, and somehow trade the rest for Asik, we'll still be left with Love getting toasted at PF.

You serious posters should have a little summit and get back to us.

 

[Celtics18]

And the fact is, KO and Sully are perhaps more vulnerable to getting burned by elite PFs as they are by centers. And there are more athletic scoring PFs than there are mamouth centers that a stronger KO and Sully can't at least do a decent job on.

You are right that there aren't a lot of dominant low post centers in the league.  My worry about pairing Sully and Olynyk on the front line is not so much that they'll get killed on their individual matchup, it's more that we desperately need somebody who can protect the rim against the rest of the team when players get in the lane. 

We know that neither player fits that bill.  They both have some very positive attributes.  Elite--or even pretty good--rim protection isn't one of those attributes for either of them. 

I wouldn't mind seeing them get some minutes together.  They showed some nice things on the court last year, but I wouldn't want to see them as my starting front court for the future.  I just don't think they'll give us the interior defensive presence that we need. 

[Tr1boy]

Thats why you need Gordon. If you had a frontcourt duo of drummond and josh smith, you need a more offensively skilled sf to balance the lineup out

[Tr1boy]

If ppl remember at one stretch sullinger was an absolute beast. He was doing 20 and 13 plus rebounds 7 or 8 games in a row. Then  have a few bad games then do it again for several more games. He just needs to come in great shape for next season and we will have a kevin love like player without trading the farm.

Also KO at the end of the year was amazing. He was playing with so much confidence. You bring in a nuts and bolt guy like gordon , an above the rim guy and we have a chance to enjoy a nice nucleus for a long time.

I want to see this happen

[Tr1boy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo6lym8DQkI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RAwc25Nz-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJqaINAMCg

[Celtics18]

Thats why you need Gordon. If you had a frontcourt duo of drummond and josh smith, you need a more offensively skilled sf to balance the lineup out

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this notion that Aaron Gordon can be your rim protector.  I know he's an athletic guy who can block some shots in transition and in help, but he can't be that last line of defense guy which you need a good defensive center to be.

In this scenario, he's supposed to be guarding small forwards who play on the perimeter.  Is he supposed to guard Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul George, and Carmelo Anthony on the perimeter and be the guy protecting the paint?

I think Aaron Gordon will be a very good defensive player as well, but this is asking a little too much out of him.

[NorthernLightning]

We can trade up in next year's draft or just sit tight and pick up a pretty good defensive center that can move his feet and protect the rim.

Maybe he won't be a future cornerstone of the franchise, but he could start situationally and provide valued and needed quality minutes off the bench.

Like Willy Cauley Stein, he'll have another year of development, and he already weighs 250. Elite athlete, will know his role, and he could defend some or most PFs as well.

Rebuilding with patience is probably the way to go, or at least not a bad alternative if a Kevin Love deal falls through.

[Tr1boy]

Thats why you need Gordon. If you had a frontcourt duo of drummond and josh smith, you need a more offensively skilled sf to balance the lineup out

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this notion that Aaron Gordon can be your rim protector.  I know he's an athletic guy who can block some shots in transition and in help, but he can't be that last line of defense guy which you need a good defensive center to be.

In this scenario, he's supposed to be guarding small forwards who play on the perimeter.  Is he supposed to guard Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul George, and Carmelo Anthony on the perimeter and be the guy protecting the paint?

I think Aaron Gordon will be a very good defensive player as well, but this is asking a little too much out of him.

No and yes. Gordon was literally all over the place for Arizona and bailed out kaleb tarczewski enough times.

Look at how the heat or even the way the spurs play defense. You think Duncan is blocking 5 shots a game still??   It's about beating your man to the spot, raising your hands, rotating, switching to perfection.  Not getting pushed around and everyone doing their job/helping out.

Gordon in many ways would be the last line of defense. He will be guarding and worrying about lebron but also will leave him to prevent easy layup dunks.  If the ball is passed to lebron than someone else will have to come and help out. 

Sure at times we will get burnt but most of the time it can work.

When a team has a traditional center/rim protector is not like they are free to block shots and get in peoples way 24/7. They are battling, worrying about blocking shots, grab rebounds and if going out to the perimeter defend the pnr properly.

So say if you had a clever coach like pops, you will pull away a Dhoward or Drummond away from the net almost every chance you get. So how would then the rockets or pistons protect the rim??

You can't on a consistent basis. But you can hope your center/rim protector can get to the rim quickly and rise above in the air to make things difficult. This is someone Gordon with his IQ and explosiveness can provide

[NorthernLightning]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this notion that Aaron Gordon can be your rim protector.

We're just saying he could chip in at as high a level as you could expect from a SF, not that he would be The rim protector patrolling the paint.

Like, Brook Lopez gets the ball in the post against Sully. Sully can hold his position pretty well but he can't swat Lopez's shots as much. Having a guy like Gordon with permission to leave his man and double, or come flying in to disrupt or block his shot once in a while, would be better than just Sully trying to stop Lopez one one one.

Gordon gets up 12'+ in the air, and he has great mobility, awareness, and motor. Even if Gordon doesn't come over to help Sully in that situation, guys like Lopez would have Gordon in the back of their mind.

Think of it as another PF on the floor to help cover for KO and Sully, SOMETIMES. Enough to swing a few possessions and allow KO and Sully to maximize their time on the floor.

[Celtics18]

Thats why you need Gordon. If you had a frontcourt duo of drummond and josh smith, you need a more offensively skilled sf to balance the lineup out

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this notion that Aaron Gordon can be your rim protector.  I know he's an athletic guy who can block some shots in transition and in help, but he can't be that last line of defense guy which you need a good defensive center to be.

In this scenario, he's supposed to be guarding small forwards who play on the perimeter.  Is he supposed to guard Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul George, and Carmelo Anthony on the perimeter and be the guy protecting the paint?

I think Aaron Gordon will be a very good defensive player as well, but this is asking a little too much out of him.

No and yes. Gordon was literally all over the place for Arizona and bailed out kaleb tarczewski enough times.

Look at how the heat or even the way the spurs play defense. You think Duncan is blocking 5 shots a game still??   It's about beating your man to the spot, raising your hands, rotating, switching to perfection.  Not getting pushed around and everyone doing their job/helping out.

Gordon in many ways would be the last line of defense. He will be guarding and worrying about lebron but also will leave him to prevent easy layup dunks.  If the ball is passed to lebron than someone else will have to come and help out. 

Sure at times we will get burnt but most of the time it can work.

When a team has a traditional center/rim protector is not like they are free to block shots and get in peoples way 24/7. They are battling, worrying about blocking shots, grab rebounds and if going out to the perimeter defend the pnr properly.

So say if you had a clever coach like pops, you will pull away a Dhoward or Drummond away from the net almost every chance you get. So how would then the rockets or pistons protect the rim??

You can't on a consistent basis. But you can hope your center/rim protector can get to the rim quickly and rise above in the air to make things difficult. This is someone Gordon with his IQ and explosiveness can provide

I admire your enthusiasm for this plan, but I can't be convinced that a legitimate, starting caliber center is not absolutely one of this team's primary needs for next season--whether we land Kevin Love or not.

I guess you really do think Aaron Gordon can guard all five positions . . . at the same time.