Grantland article on 3 scouts breakdown of Embiid, Parker, Wiggins, and Randle

[colincb]

Interesting read of breakdowns by 3 scouts and Ryan Russilo on each prospect.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-wiggins-randle-embiid-and-parker/

[knuckleballer]

They love Embiid and Parker and killed Wiggins and Randle.  Wiggins was compared to Gerald Green and Randle was called doughy.  To my eyes Randle looks ripped for a 19 year old.  Wiggins is light years ahead of Green at the same age.

[JBcat]

TP for the link.

From these front offices take it makes me like Embiid more, Wiggins and Randle less, and Parker about the same.  I'm not completely sold with the Pierce comparisons with Parker. He has a little bit if Pierce, a little of Melo, and Rudy Gay.  Maybe Glenn Robinson is the best comparison for me.

[Tr1boy]

Nice link. Who is scout 1/gm I wonder. I like his brutal honesty. Alot of swearing shiiet this shiiet that lol. Its true though

I wish we could hear scouting report of everyone in tye 1st round by these three

[Galeto]

They're way too harsh on Wiggins.  Wiggins is certainly raw going to his left. After a few dribbles to his left, he crow hops and almost always jumps off two feet whereas he's unrestricted going to his right.  But at least he goes to his left.  He's not Jeff Green here, never going to his left at 27 years old.  Wiggins needs polishing but he's still only 19.  From the beginning of conference play, he shot better from outside than Parker and he can also score at all three levels.  He doesn't have as tight a handle or as much wiggle to his game as Parker has, but he can hit jumpers, take his man off the dribble and even score in the post.  He also played more unselfishly than Parker did.

Parker looks like he's gotten in much better shape.  If so, choosing between him and Wiggins would be really tough.

[Lucky17]

I read that and thought, "Wow, Danny Ainge drops a lot of f-bombs for a Mormon."

[colincb]

Nice link. Who is scout 1/gm I wonder. I like his brutal honesty. Alot of swearing shiiet this shiiet that lol. Its true though

I wish we could hear scouting report of everyone in tye 1st round by these three

I had the same thought after I read this.

Scout 1 did say that he'd take Randle over Vonleh and Gordon, which I found interesting.  However, these thoughts were taken over a period of time and Vonleh was helped by the Combine.

I was surprised by the negativity on Wiggins on the one hand regarding him not having a hall court game. and everyone saying he'll be a quality defender from day 1.  I still think he's got plenty ogf upside.  Draft Express has a video breakdown of Wiggins playing against Smart 3 times and Wiggins was passive offensively (but Smart's a very good defender).

[pokeKingCurtis]

They're saying Wiggins can be your third best player...They're even saying he's too passive...

Jeff Green redux...?

Maybe getting the 6th pick isn't so bad...less headaches. Grab the best player.

[chambers]

They're super brutal on Wiggins' shot.
It's a big concern with his lack of dribble. He's almost like a rich man's version of Aaron Gordon or Jeff Green.
The difference with Wiggins and Gordon is that they'll both be excellent pick and roll players because of their ability to attack angles so early.
Wiggins and Gordonn are similar in that even if they never develop offensive skills other than athleticism and dunking/put backs, that you'll still have an elite defender/athlete on the wing.

I laughed when I saw the GM's quote on Jabari. " He's very selfish and took some very heavily contested shots, but also look at his Duke team mates around him and thought 'Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. it'.
hahaha. He's going to need a great coach and lose some weight but man he's an offensive weapon with his size.

[Galeto]

I don't think Wiggins is too passive at all.  If he looked it at times, it more of a function of Kansas' boring, swing the ball around the three point arc offense.  After reading reports about him not being aggressive enough for the coaches' liking in preseason practices, I was expecting a passive player but he was aggressive right from the start.  He is not one to shy away from shooting.  One aspect of his game that he's going to show more is the ability to go coast to coast off the dribble.  He was great at that in high school and there were times it looked like he wanted to jet off with the ball last season but then held back.  He's going to be allowed to rush the ball up the court and attack.

Another thing false with his supposed timidity is that he didn't shy away from end of the game moments.  In fact, he took most of Kansas' late game shots in close games and most of them were of him attacking the basket. 

A player like Glenn Robinson III could be legitimately called passive on offense because he lacks the dribble drive game to force himself into his team's offense. That's not the case with Wiggins. 

[Galeto]

They're super brutal on Wiggins' shot.
It's a big concern with his lack of dribble. He's almost like a rich man's version of Aaron Gordon or Jeff Green.
The difference with Wiggins and Gordon is that they'll both be excellent pick and roll players because of their ability to attack angles so early.
Wiggins and Gordonn are similar in that even if they never develop offensive skills other than athleticism and dunking/put backs, that you'll still have an elite defender/athlete on the wing.

I laughed when I saw the GM's quote on Jabari. " He's very selfish and took some very heavily contested shots, but also look at his Duke team mates around him and thought '**** it'.
hahaha. He's going to need a great coach and lose some weight but man he's an offensive weapon with his size.

Wiggins' handle is not bad. It needs improving against smaller defenders who can stay with him on the perimeter because he needs more dribble counter moves but a bad, unusable handle is someone like Gerald Green.  Wiggins can bring the ball up the court with speed.  He can use the dribble to drive to the basket.  He may never be a point forward, which is where the comparisons to Tracy McGrady are ridiculous stylistically, but his handle is further along than someone like Derozan's or George's at the same age and both guys have improved their handle significantly.  If the starting point of someone's handle is Tony Allen or Gerald Green, it's hopeless but Wiggins' handle is average for a SF.

Also, Aaron Gordon has a pretty good handle.  It's not flashy but he rarely gets stripped.  I think it's better than Wiggins'. 

The quote about Jabari makes no sense.  He played with Rodney Hood who is another first round pick.  He played with good shooters.  He had no excuse to be a black hole.  Frankly, I'm mystified by Jabari's selfishness.  He balanced scoring and playmaking seamlessly as a sophomore in high school.  He's regressed in that aspect into a JR Smith type gunner.  There's certainly hope that he'll be a better and more willing playmaker because of type of person he's supposed to be but he shouldn't be credited as a Carmelo Who Passes before he actually, you know, passes the ball.

[knuckleballer]

I don't think Wiggins is too passive at all.  If he looked it at times, it more of a function of Kansas' boring, swing the ball around the three point arc offense.  After reading reports about him not being aggressive enough for the coaches' liking in preseason practices, I was expecting a passive player but he was aggressive right from the start.  He is not one to shy away from shooting.  One aspect of his game that he's going to show more is the ability to go coast to coast off the dribble.  He was great at that in high school and there were times it looked like he wanted to jet off with the ball last season but then held back.  He's going to be allowed to rush the ball up the court and attack.

Another thing false with his supposed timidity is that he didn't shy away from end of the game moments.  In fact, he took most of Kansas' late game shots in close games and most of them were of him attacking the basket. 

A player like Glenn Robinson III could be legitimately called passive on offense because he lacks the dribble drive game to force himself into his team's offense. That's not the case with Wiggins.

I agree with you that Wiggins is not as timid as he's being described. He appeared that way at times, but as you said it was mainly a result of Bill Self's offense.  They would swing the ball around the perimeter while the defense played zone.  Every time he touched the ball he would be out past the elbow with a defender on him and two bigs clogging the paint.  His options were to take a step back 3 pointer or long two, blow by the defender (which he does with ease) and pull up for a mid range jumper (a low percentage shot), try to go through the two big guys who were waiting for him, or pass it back to the point guard.  They never ran any screens for him or really any plays at all.  Self is highly respected, but that offense didnt make sense for the talent he had especially when he was playing 3 or 4 freshmen at a time.  It's a nuanced offense which requires jump shooters on the wings.

His jump shot isn't bad.  He has a quick high release with good form which should improve.  He shot 34% from three, so it's not like he struggled.

His handle is his biggest weakness, but it's not bad.  He would turn the ball over a couple times a game when trying to force a drive through three defenders with a fourth defender collapsing on him.  He would frequently try a spin move to get around defenders and that left the ball susceptible to getting swatted away.  He needs to improve on that.

He thrived in the half court when the offense was broken up due to a long rebound or near steal.  That's when he'd have space and freedom to make a play or drive to the hoop.  Of course he was awesome in transition.  His speed, athleticism, and body control are special.  His second jump is incredible.  His defense is also outstanding.

I have little doubt that he'll be a very good player, probably a perennial all star.  The Grantland scouts are down on him, but there are many more that are very excited about him.  There's a reason he was hyped up so much and still expected to be the top pick in a strong draft.

[Mr October]

I like Parker and Wiggins, but if they are your best player, you are going to be in the lottery every year.

Very telling quote from the grantland article

[BballTim]

I don't think Wiggins is too passive at all.  If he looked it at times, it more of a function of Kansas' boring, swing the ball around the three point arc offense.  After reading reports about him not being aggressive enough for the coaches' liking in preseason practices, I was expecting a passive player but he was aggressive right from the start.  He is not one to shy away from shooting.  One aspect of his game that he's going to show more is the ability to go coast to coast off the dribble.  He was great at that in high school and there were times it looked like he wanted to jet off with the ball last season but then held back.  He's going to be allowed to rush the ball up the court and attack.

Another thing false with his supposed timidity is that he didn't shy away from end of the game moments.  In fact, he took most of Kansas' late game shots in close games and most of them were of him attacking the basket. 

A player like Glenn Robinson III could be legitimately called passive on offense because he lacks the dribble drive game to force himself into his team's offense. That's not the case with Wiggins.

I agree with you that Wiggins is not as timid as he's being described. He appeared that way at times, but as you said it was mainly a result of Bill Self's offense.  They would swing the ball around the perimeter while the defense played zone.  Every time he touched the ball he would be out past the elbow with a defender on him and two bigs clogging the paint.  His options were to take a step back 3 pointer or long two, blow by the defender (which he does with ease) and pull up for a mid range jumper (a low percentage shot), try to go through the two big guys who were waiting for him, or pass it back to the point guard.  They never ran any screens for him or really any plays at all.  Self is highly respected, but that offense didnt make sense for the talent he had especially when he was playing 3 or 4 freshmen at a time.  It's a nuanced offense which requires jump shooters on the wings.

His jump shot isn't bad.  He has a quick high release with good form which should improve.  He shot 34% from three, so it's not like he struggled.

His handle is his biggest weakness, but it's not bad.  He would turn the ball over a couple times a game when trying to force a drive through three defenders with a fourth defender collapsing on him.  He would frequently try a spin move to get around defenders and that left the ball susceptible to getting swatted away.  He needs to improve on that.

He thrived in the half court when the offense was broken up due to a long rebound or near steal.  That's when he'd have space and freedom to make a play or drive to the hoop.  Of course he was awesome in transition.  His speed, athleticism, and body control are special.  His second jump is incredible.  His defense is also outstanding.

I have little doubt that he'll be a very good player, probably a perennial all star.  The Grantland scouts are down on him, but there are many more that are very excited about him.  There's a reason he was hyped up so much and still expected to be the top pick in a strong draft.

  I didn't see much of him on offense, but from what I did see timid wouldn't be overly inaccurate.