Gordon like Celtics

[nickagneta]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

[pearljammer10]

I was hoping this would be about Gordon Hayward.

[Tr1boy]

It seems to me as if MKG and Harrison Barnes, taken #2 and #7 respectively in 2012, were the closest recent players to Gordon. Both with mediocre shooting, but defense, athleticism, and intangibles that had them taken higher.

So far, both have underwhelmed in the NBA.

Gordon is nothing like MKG, Barnes.  Their games might look similar on the surface but thats it.

MKG is a 6'6 sg/sf blue collar player that plays solid defense, crashes the board and has decent athleticism/quickness. What he doesn't have that Gordon has is, top level iq, explosiveness, size, strength , passing skills and leadership capabilities.      MKG was an important piece to kentucky's win for the championship but the commander of that team was Anthony Davis.  Gordon is the same kind of player just a sf version

Harrison Barnes is a guy who likely won't be in the league too much longer or be a role player the rest of the way.  Has no confidence and provides little to no leadership.  Again nothing like Gordon

Gordon is closer to becoming the next AK, Marion, Rodman. Worse case if he develops no shot he is going to be all over the place on both ends of the court. Low turnovers, diving for balls, battling for rebounds, taking charges, defending the opposing teams best player and could score you 10-12 points just by dunks and tip ins most players can't do (he can do more though).   I wish people actually watch games of him playing to realize what kind of player he is. Instead of utilizing everything else to come to conclusions.

[Tr1boy]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

If we go back in time and re-did the 1986 draft, where would you draft Rodman?? Still a 2nd round pick?

Shawn Marion was drafted 9th overall but had no shot, couldn't create his own shot.  How did that turn out?  Matter of fact on many other ppl's draft redo, he should of gone in the top 3 or 4

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

This is my pet peeve. I understand that better mechanics lead to better shots, but I'd still really rather be comfortable and just practice, practice, practice and practice. Does not matter if my elbows are tight or my feet are set, if I settle in a form where I'm comfortable, that should be it, and just keep shooting.

I really believe that these guys, when they shoot, are more worried about getting their mechanics right than actually focusing on hitting a shot. Shawn Marion has the WEIRDEST shot but did not prevent him from being a decent to good shooter. Kevin Martin's form isnt pretty either, but he's hitting shots. Marcus Camby had a decent mid range game in his prime, and he whirls the ball around in his head.

If I'm the Celtics, and will draft Gordon with the idea of improving his jumper, I'd let him shoot in a way he's really comfortable, screw mechanics. But I'll let him shoot A LOT, maybe about 500 a day. He'll improve that way IMO, muscle memory works that way too, but, he's focused on making the shot instead of focusing on his form and mechanics.

Just me.

[loco_91]

Lot of people on this board are high on Gordon, I will admit not to have seen him play. But to me he sounds like a tweener that can't hit 3s.

Right now I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him, I just don't see where he fits on the team.

The tweener thing is a major concern for Gordon. As anyone who has followed Josh Smith can attest, 3's who don't stretch the floor are a major liability to have on offense... many good NBA lineups these days have 4 shooters, and if you have only 2, it isn't good. I think Gordon can play the 3 alongside KO at the 4, with Gordon taking on the 4's position in the offense and KO spacing the floor. Ideally we'd also have a center who could hit the 15 footer.

[Tr1boy]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

This is my pet peeve. I understand that better mechanics lead to better shots, but I'd still really rather be comfortable and just practice, practice, practice and practice. Does not matter if my elbows are tight or my feet are set, if I settle in a form where I'm comfortable, that should be it, and just keep shooting.

I really believe that these guys, when they shoot, are more worried about getting their mechanics right than actually focusing on hitting a shot. Shawn Marion has the WEIRDEST shot but did not prevent him from being a decent to good shooter. Kevin Martin's form isnt pretty either, but he's hitting shots. Marcus Camby had a decent mid range game in his prime, and he whirls the ball around in his head.

If I'm the Celtics, and will draft Gordon with the idea of improving his jumper, I'd let him shoot in a way he's really comfortable, screw mechanics. But I'll let him shoot A LOT, maybe about 500 a day. He'll improve that way IMO, muscle memory works that way too, but, he's focused on making the shot instead of focusing on his form and mechanics.

Just me.

I agree. And Gordon has said he has improved his jump shot since he has finished college.  I mean he shot high 50's in FT's in the U19. He shot around 35 percent in three pt shooting in college. It's not like he can't shoot like a Drummond and to me is already a better shooter than Gwallace at the same age.

Practice the shots and have confidence in shooting the shot. Once he improves his FT shooting, everything else should come to its own.

Lastly just bc you have a broken shot in college and early in the nba doesn't mean it will never improve. Blake Griffin is a perfect example. Rondo has improved even though you wish he was better. There are a whole list of other players in the same boat. Now if you want someone to improve their feel of the game, defense (on and off ball), explosiveness etc. now these are things very difficult to get better at.  These are the things Gordon already has

[Tr1boy]

Lot of people on this board are high on Gordon, I will admit not to have seen him play. But to me he sounds like a tweener that can't hit 3s.

Right now I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him, I just don't see where he fits on the team.

The tweener thing is a major concern for Gordon. As anyone who has followed Josh Smith can attest, 3's who don't stretch the floor are a major liability to have on offense... many good NBA lineups these days have 4 shooters, and if you have only 2, it isn't good. I think Gordon can play the 3 alongside KO at the 4, with Gordon taking on the 4's position in the offense and KO spacing the floor. Ideally we'd also have a center who could hit the 15 footer.

exactly. If we had a PF and C who couldn't also shoot a lick, i wouldn't even want Danny to draft Gordon. But it's bc of KO , Sullinger who both can shoot, plus Green, AB can shoot ok that i don't mind getting Gordon.    You look at a team like Miami or the spurs and they have enough guys that are not naturally good shooters. Lebron James, Dwade, Parker, Duncan . These guys have learned to make the open shot but again are not naturals and they are doing just fine, winning game, championships etc.

you don't need a lineup full of ray allens. Matter of fact a lineup like that is prob missing other key elements and won't go too far.  A perfect example of such teams are the GS warriors or the Knicks

[chambers]

Lot of people on this board are high on Gordon, I will admit not to have seen him play. But to me he sounds like a tweener that can't hit 3s.

Right now I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him, I just don't see where he fits on the team.

The tweener thing is a major concern for Gordon. As anyone who has followed Josh Smith can attest, 3's who don't stretch the floor are a major liability to have on offense... many good NBA lineups these days have 4 shooters, and if you have only 2, it isn't good. I think Gordon can play the 3 alongside KO at the 4, with Gordon taking on the 4's position in the offense and KO spacing the floor. Ideally we'd also have a center who could hit the 15 footer.

exactly. If we had a PF and C who couldn't also shoot a lick, i wouldn't even want Danny to draft Gordon. But it's bc of KO , Sullinger who both can shoot, plus Green, AB can shoot ok that i don't mind getting Gordon.    You look at a team like Miami or the spurs and they have enough guys that are not naturally good shooters. Lebron James, Dwade, Parker, Duncan . These guys have learned to make the open shot but again are not naturals and they are doing just fine, winning game, championships etc.

you don't need a lineup full of ray allens. Matter of fact a lineup like that is prob missing other key elements and won't go too far.  A perfect example of such teams are the GS warriors or the Knicks

I told you why I think Gordon is not a top 5 pick in another thread, but I want to know what position you think he plays in the NBA. I think you said he's a small forward, and it would appear that way from watching him in college, but he lacks the handles and shooting touch for an NBA small forward.
In the combine telecast all the ESPN cheeseheads said he's 100% a power forward in the NBA.
I'd probably prefer that but is he going to be able to hold his own against monsters like Blake Griffin or Zac Randolph? Is he going to be a hybrid 3/4 like Jeff Green?

I've watched plenty of his games too. You seem to have an obsession with his intangibles and his 'leadership' abilities. Those again are great, but they are often attained (as Nickagenta said), by 2nd round picks with defensive prowess.

I think he could be a better version of Tony Allen in that he could score and rebound more, whilst being a lock down defender. Problem is when there are other guys with more All Star potential and more complete games, with defined positions, his stock drops dramatically.

[playdream]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

This is my pet peeve. I understand that better mechanics lead to better shots, but I'd still really rather be comfortable and just practice, practice, practice and practice. Does not matter if my elbows are tight or my feet are set, if I settle in a form where I'm comfortable, that should be it, and just keep shooting.

I really believe that these guys, when they shoot, are more worried about getting their mechanics right than actually focusing on hitting a shot. Shawn Marion has the WEIRDEST shot but did not prevent him from being a decent to good shooter. Kevin Martin's form isnt pretty either, but he's hitting shots. Marcus Camby had a decent mid range game in his prime, and he whirls the ball around in his head.

If I'm the Celtics, and will draft Gordon with the idea of improving his jumper, I'd let him shoot in a way he's really comfortable, screw mechanics. But I'll let him shoot A LOT, maybe about 500 a day. He'll improve that way IMO, muscle memory works that way too, but, he's focused on making the shot instead of focusing on his form and mechanics.

Just me.

I agree. And Gordon has said he has improved his jump shot since he has finished college.  I mean he shot high 50's in FT's in the U19. He shot around 35 percent in three pt shooting in college. It's not like he can't shoot like a Drummond and to me is already a better shooter than Gwallace at the same age.

Practice the shots and have confidence in shooting the shot. Once he improves his FT shooting, everything else should come to its own.

Lastly just bc you have a broken shot in college and early in the nba doesn't mean it will never improve. Blake Griffin is a perfect example. Rondo has improved even though you wish he was better. There are a whole list of other players in the same boat. Now if you want someone to improve their feel of the game, defense (on and off ball), explosiveness etc. now these are things very difficult to get better at.  These are the things Gordon already has

Perfectly said
If he can shut down LBJs/Melos/Hardens/Durants i don't really care about his shooting

[pokeKingCurtis]

Isn't his handles pretty decent? How bad is it?

I wouldn't mind if he's an intangibles guy in the way that Iguodala is one. Or even KG. Someone you'd go to war with.

[Rondo9]

Gordon has some decent handles, it's enough for him to run the fast break.

[fitzhickey]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

This is my pet peeve. I understand that better mechanics lead to better shots, but I'd still really rather be comfortable and just practice, practice, practice and practice. Does not matter if my elbows are tight or my feet are set, if I settle in a form where I'm comfortable, that should be it, and just keep shooting.

I really believe that these guys, when they shoot, are more worried about getting their mechanics right than actually focusing on hitting a shot. Shawn Marion has the WEIRDEST shot but did not prevent him from being a decent to good shooter. Kevin Martin's form isnt pretty either, but he's hitting shots. Marcus Camby had a decent mid range game in his prime, and he whirls the ball around in his head.

If I'm the Celtics, and will draft Gordon with the idea of improving his jumper, I'd let him shoot in a way he's really comfortable, screw mechanics. But I'll let him shoot A LOT, maybe about 500 a day. He'll improve that way IMO, muscle memory works that way too, but, he's focused on making the shot instead of focusing on his form and mechanics.

Just me.

I agree. And Gordon has said he has improved his jump shot since he has finished college.  I mean he shot high 50's in FT's in the U19. He shot around 35 percent in three pt shooting in college. It's not like he can't shoot like a Drummond and to me is already a better shooter than Gwallace at the same age.

Practice the shots and have confidence in shooting the shot. Once he improves his FT shooting, everything else should come to its own.

Lastly just bc you have a broken shot in college and early in the nba doesn't mean it will never improve. Blake Griffin is a perfect example. Rondo has improved even though you wish he was better. There are a whole list of other players in the same boat. Now if you want someone to improve their feel of the game, defense (on and off ball), explosiveness etc. now these are things very difficult to get better at.  These are the things Gordon already has

Perfectly said
If he can shut down LBJs/Melos/Hardens/Durants i don't really care about his shooting

When did he make the jump from good college defender to being able to shut down the best in the league. I would be disgusted if we pick him, especially at 5.

[Rondo9]

Broken shooting mechanics are not something that is easy to fix. Gordon has trouble hitting anything outside of 3 feet. Great defenders that can not shoot or have offensive games much beyond a dunk can be found in the second round of most drafts. I don't see wasting a top ten pick on someone who projects out to be a role playing defender.

He's the youngest of his class I believe, he'll have plenty of time to fix his shooting mechanics.

[Tr1boy]

Lot of people on this board are high on Gordon, I will admit not to have seen him play. But to me he sounds like a tweener that can't hit 3s.

Right now I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him, I just don't see where he fits on the team.

The tweener thing is a major concern for Gordon. As anyone who has followed Josh Smith can attest, 3's who don't stretch the floor are a major liability to have on offense... many good NBA lineups these days have 4 shooters, and if you have only 2, it isn't good. I think Gordon can play the 3 alongside KO at the 4, with Gordon taking on the 4's position in the offense and KO spacing the floor. Ideally we'd also have a center who could hit the 15 footer.

exactly. If we had a PF and C who couldn't also shoot a lick, i wouldn't even want Danny to draft Gordon. But it's bc of KO , Sullinger who both can shoot, plus Green, AB can shoot ok that i don't mind getting Gordon.    You look at a team like Miami or the spurs and they have enough guys that are not naturally good shooters. Lebron James, Dwade, Parker, Duncan . These guys have learned to make the open shot but again are not naturals and they are doing just fine, winning game, championships etc.

you don't need a lineup full of ray allens. Matter of fact a lineup like that is prob missing other key elements and won't go too far.  A perfect example of such teams are the GS warriors or the Knicks

I told you why I think Gordon is not a top 5 pick in another thread, but I want to know what position you think he plays in the NBA. I think you said he's a small forward, and it would appear that way from watching him in college, but he lacks the handles and shooting touch for an NBA small forward.
In the combine telecast all the ESPN cheeseheads said he's 100% a power forward in the NBA.
I'd probably prefer that but is he going to be able to hold his own against monsters like Blake Griffin or Zac Randolph? Is he going to be a hybrid 3/4 like Jeff Green?

I've watched plenty of his games too. You seem to have an obsession with his intangibles and his 'leadership' abilities. Those again are great, but they are often attained (as Nickagenta said), by 2nd round picks with defensive prowess.

I think he could be a better version of Tony Allen in that he could score and rebound more, whilst being a lock down defender. Problem is when there are other guys with more All Star potential and more complete games, with defined positions, his stock drops dramatically.

We need a player like an Allen or Gordon right now. This current lineup has a bunch of nice guys plus Rondo (all with nice skills).  Adding more skill might win you a few more games, but you are not going far from there. 

And btw you are not going to find players with the kind of intaginbles, leadership skills + talent Gordon has in the 2nd round.  List me a few 2nd round guys that have all these things in the nba today.