The Rondo praising thread!

[michael 26]

Rajon Rondo is my favorite player, and this past year I kept hearing people criticizing him. Saying that he's a nice player but not and will not be a top five point guard since he doesn't score enough. I always find that hard to answer because he really doesn't score much but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing since when he's on the floor he's just making his teammates way better by creating looks and pushing the ball. Oh, and about pushing the ball up the court, people say that he shouldn't get the rebounds and do that since the point guard needs to start running and get a pass from the bigman who catches the rebound. Well I say no! Nearly every time rondo catches a rebound he runs and creates fast break opportunities but not that many bigmen pass the ball quite fast enough to create a fast break. So those Rondo haters say that Rondo's rebounding isn't as valuable as Marc Gasol's passing for example. That a passing center creates many more opportunities. And then their conclusion is that Damian Lillard is better than Rondo, That John Wall is better then him.

To me it's clear that in a few years Rondo will show us (and everybody else) the great player he really is. But until then please help prove the "Rondo underraters" (a new word) are wrong, and tell me a reason why Rondo is better than what people think he is.   

[Celtics18]

Good post Michael,

I think that a lot of Rondo's detractors believe that he's too old to ever fully recover from his knee injury and return to his pre-injury form as a top 15 player in the league. 

I believe he has a good chance of fully recovering.  There are plenty of examples of players suffering similar injuries mid-career and coming back and playing as well as or better than before upon their return.

Next year is definitely going to be a big year for him.  We'll see if he can return to 2012 form or if his best days are behind him.

Obviously, I'm rooting for the former. 

[pearljammer10]

TP for your post. I couldn't agree more.

The Rondo bashing on here is ridiculous. At times he is obviously frustrating but isn't any player. Heck, Kevin Durant gets bashed on and he's the best talent in the game. Top so often bash a top 5 point guard in the game and always want him to be traded boggles my mind sometimes.

[PhoSita]

Rondo at his best is an amazing basketball player unlike any other.  A true privilege and a thrill to watch.

Rondo has his flaws, though, and it's OK to like him as a player and yet also think that it may be in the best interests of he and the Celtics for his career to take him elsewhere.

[Celtics18]

Rondo at his best is an amazing basketball player unlike any other.  A true privilege and a thrill to watch.

Rondo has his flaws, though, and it's OK to like him as a player and yet also think that it may be in the best interests of he and the Celtics for his career to take him elsewhere.

Yes, it's okay, Pho.  It's okay.

[LarBrd33]

He's my favorite player on the Celtics.  I'm glad he didn't hurt our tank job.  It's the best of both worlds... we keep Rondo and still land a Top 8 pick.

He's really fun to watch when everyone is making shots.

[CoachBo]

Rondo at his best is an amazing basketball player unlike any other.  A true privilege and a thrill to watch.

Rondo has his flaws, though, and it's OK to like him as a player and yet also think that it may be in the best interests of he and the Celtics for his career to take him elsewhere.

Appreciate you putting that in writing, despite all the evidence around you to the contrary. TP.

[tstorey_97]

This kid has an amazing handle. I know he gives up a TO or two once in a while, but, I love to watch him "walk through the trees" underneath the basket while looking for a play. Gifted dude.

If a defender makes a move for the ball, Rondo, can make him pay. Also a superb "no look" passer.

If you want to hear praise, find the the interview cut with Lebron. He loves Rondo's game and knows what he's talking about as Rondo has cut Lebron's teams up in many a playoff game.   

[michael 26]

Thanks for all the support! It's good to know there are others like me in this situation.

I've also thought about how people blame Rondo for injuring his knee because he jumps for rebounds. Well, maybe it might be partially true but you can't blame someone for doing something good and unique.

[D.o.s.]

Can't blame an athlete for an injury, most of the time it's just bad luck.

[Monkhouse]

I think everyone forgets how much of a dominant force Rondo was, and still could be. His ACL tear probably won't affect his game that much if he can ever be as great of a passer as he was is, and can rebound/score off picks like the best of them.

Just to be clear, I don't think a triple double is the greatest stat, but it can show you how much of a impact a single player can have on a game. Most guys do chase them, but as long as its done within the context of the game, I think its different.

With that being said, here is the list of playoff triple-double leaders since Rondo made his playoff debut in 2008:

    Rondo ? 10
    LeBron ? 9
    Westbrook ? 4
    Chris Paul ? 2

Lets keep in mind that Rondo hasn't have any triple doubles in his first playoff season in 2008, and hasn't played in a playoff game since 2012. Rondo still leads them all.

The best part is that the Celtics record is 8-2 when Rondo averages his daily triple double.

One loss was a 121-118 Game 4 loss to the Bulls in 2009 and the other was the Game 7 loss in the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals to Miami, which every Celtic fan will remember painfully.

Also the term Crazy-8, is a game that isn't completely off the track of a triple double. Its basically 8 points, 8 rebounds, and 8 assists. Since Rondo's playoff debut, he has 20! The team's record in those games was a solid 13-7, and 4 of them were closely contested with the margin of the game being down by 3 points or less.

So where does Rondo rank in the NBA Crazy-8 games from 2008-2014? Second only to the best player in the NBA.

 

  LeBron ? 24
    Rondo ? 20
    Westbrook ? 9
    Kobe ? 4
    Pau Gasol ? 4
    Chris Paul ? 4
    Andre Iguodala ? 3
    Derrick Rose ? 2
    Dwyane Wade ? 2

All credits/information goes to Basketballreference, and Celticslife.

[Monkhouse]

Another interesting stat is that people think Rondo stat pads in the playoffs. I completely disagree with that statement, but a reddit user posted some factual information.

I decided to take a look at the rate at which certain active and all-time tripdub greats convert near triple doubles into the real thing - with the hypothesis that more selfish players would have a higher rate of conversion. Below is a list of all players with at least 10 triple doubles since 1985, using only PTS, REBS and ASTS (I deemed these the most chasable stats) along with the rate at which they converted them:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Rajon Rondo  19  27  70.4%
2.  Fat Lever  42  64  65.6%
3.  Grant Hill  29  46  63%
4.  Antoine Walker  15  24  62.5%
5.  Darrell Walker  15  24  62.5%
6.  Magic Johnson  69  112  61.6%
7.  Jason Kidd  107  177  60.5%
8.  Chris Webber  22  37  59.5%
9.  Mark Jackson  18  31  58.1%
10.  Gary Payton  15  26  57.7%
11.  Kevin Johnson  12  21  57.1%
12.  Michael Jordan  25  46  54.3%
13.  LeBron James  37  70  52.9%
14.  Kobe Bryant  19  36  52.8%
15.  Lamar Odom  12  23  52.2%
16.  Alvin Robertson  13  26  50%
17.  Chris Paul  11  22  50%
18.  Larry Bird  31  65  47.7%
19.  Charles Barkley  20  42  47.6%
20.  Clyde Drexler  21  46  45.7%
21.  Baron Davis  10  22  45.5%
22.  Scottie Pippen  17  49  34.7%
23.  Kevin Garnett  16  51  31.4%
Average  26  47  54.7%

What I was expecting to find was that James converts at a historically low rate, because he seems to have a near triple double almost every game (I am sure the data would suggest that if the thresholds were lowered to 8, but then it would relate less to chasing stats than simply being well rounded). I found instead that he was incredibly average.

Rondo on the other hand, has a historically high conversion rate. There are always anomolies when dealing with samples of this size, but given his reputation as a stat chaser, I think that this is fairly indicative. Same goes for Antoine Walker.

Not surprisingly, some guys with reputations of being obsessed with winning are near the bottom: Garnett, Pippen, Bird, Paul. Again, a name like Baron Davis makes me realize that there is a good bit of noise in this data, but I still find it interesting.

At the risk of further decreasing sample size, I looked at anyone with at least 4 triple doubles (again, PTS, AST, REBs) in the last 3 years, and their conversion rates:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Stephenson  5  5  100%
2.  Curry  4  5  80%
3.  Rondo  12  17  70.6%
4.  Durant  6  9  66.7%
5.  Batum  4  7  57.1%
6.  Noah  6  11  54.5%
7.  Lowry  4  8  50%
8.  James  5  14  35.7%
Average  6  10  60.5%

Even though the samples are smaller, I think that (confirmation bias aside) this list is very indicative of stat-chasing habits. Lance has never had a game with 9 point, 9 rebounds and 9 assists that wasn't a triple double. That's pretty significant considering the average conversion rate is 60.5%. It is also not surprising, as Lance has turned stat chasing into performance art this season. Again, Rondo comes out on the high end, while guys with unselfish reputations such as Noah, Lowry and a matured James are well below the average.

To reiterate, I know there is a ton of noise in these figures, but I found them pretty interesting none-the-less and figured I would share them.

TL;DR: Despite some small sample sizes and lots of noise, data supports the notion that Rondo and Lance Stephenson like to chase triple doubles, while guys like Noah, Garnett and LeBron aren't as concerned with that particular stat.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Another interesting stat is that people think Rondo stat pads in the playoffs. I completely disagree with that statement, but a reddit user posted some factual information.

I decided to take a look at the rate at which certain active and all-time tripdub greats convert near triple doubles into the real thing - with the hypothesis that more selfish players would have a higher rate of conversion. Below is a list of all players with at least 10 triple doubles since 1985, using only PTS, REBS and ASTS (I deemed these the most chasable stats) along with the rate at which they converted them:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Rajon Rondo  19  27  70.4%
2.  Fat Lever  42  64  65.6%
3.  Grant Hill  29  46  63%
4.  Antoine Walker  15  24  62.5%
5.  Darrell Walker  15  24  62.5%
6.  Magic Johnson  69  112  61.6%
7.  Jason Kidd  107  177  60.5%
8.  Chris Webber  22  37  59.5%
9.  Mark Jackson  18  31  58.1%
10.  Gary Payton  15  26  57.7%
11.  Kevin Johnson  12  21  57.1%
12.  Michael Jordan  25  46  54.3%
13.  LeBron James  37  70  52.9%
14.  Kobe Bryant  19  36  52.8%
15.  Lamar Odom  12  23  52.2%
16.  Alvin Robertson  13  26  50%
17.  Chris Paul  11  22  50%
18.  Larry Bird  31  65  47.7%
19.  Charles Barkley  20  42  47.6%
20.  Clyde Drexler  21  46  45.7%
21.  Baron Davis  10  22  45.5%
22.  Scottie Pippen  17  49  34.7%
23.  Kevin Garnett  16  51  31.4%
Average  26  47  54.7%

What I was expecting to find was that James converts at a historically low rate, because he seems to have a near triple double almost every game (I am sure the data would suggest that if the thresholds were lowered to 8, but then it would relate less to chasing stats than simply being well rounded). I found instead that he was incredibly average.

Rondo on the other hand, has a historically high conversion rate. There are always anomolies when dealing with samples of this size, but given his reputation as a stat chaser, I think that this is fairly indicative. Same goes for Antoine Walker.

Not surprisingly, some guys with reputations of being obsessed with winning are near the bottom: Garnett, Pippen, Bird, Paul. Again, a name like Baron Davis makes me realize that there is a good bit of noise in this data, but I still find it interesting.

At the risk of further decreasing sample size, I looked at anyone with at least 4 triple doubles (again, PTS, AST, REBs) in the last 3 years, and their conversion rates:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Stephenson  5  5  100%
2.  Curry  4  5  80%
3.  Rondo  12  17  70.6%
4.  Durant  6  9  66.7%
5.  Batum  4  7  57.1%
6.  Noah  6  11  54.5%
7.  Lowry  4  8  50%
8.  James  5  14  35.7%
Average  6  10  60.5%

Even though the samples are smaller, I think that (confirmation bias aside) this list is very indicative of stat-chasing habits. Lance has never had a game with 9 point, 9 rebounds and 9 assists that wasn't a triple double. That's pretty significant considering the average conversion rate is 60.5%. It is also not surprising, as Lance has turned stat chasing into performance art this season. Again, Rondo comes out on the high end, while guys with unselfish reputations such as Noah, Lowry and a matured James are well below the average.

To reiterate, I know there is a ton of noise in these figures, but I found them pretty interesting none-the-less and figured I would share them.

TL;DR: Despite some small sample sizes and lots of noise, data supports the notion that Rondo and Lance Stephenson like to chase triple doubles, while guys like Noah, Garnett and LeBron aren't as concerned with that particular stat.

If you scroll down a bit in the comments, you'd notice almost all of them disagree with the methodology.

He's penalizing players for turning near triple doubles into triple doubles while praising players who get near triple doubles. So the premise is that Rondo (and other stat chasers) will go the extra mile to get that extra stat(s), even to the detriment of the team.

The flaw seems pretty obvious once the methodology is spelled out.

[BballTim]

Another interesting stat is that people think Rondo stat pads in the playoffs. I completely disagree with that statement, but a reddit user posted some factual information.

I decided to take a look at the rate at which certain active and all-time tripdub greats convert near triple doubles into the real thing - with the hypothesis that more selfish players would have a higher rate of conversion. Below is a list of all players with at least 10 triple doubles since 1985, using only PTS, REBS and ASTS (I deemed these the most chasable stats) along with the rate at which they converted them:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Rajon Rondo  19  27  70.4%
2.  Fat Lever  42  64  65.6%
3.  Grant Hill  29  46  63%
4.  Antoine Walker  15  24  62.5%
5.  Darrell Walker  15  24  62.5%
6.  Magic Johnson  69  112  61.6%
7.  Jason Kidd  107  177  60.5%
8.  Chris Webber  22  37  59.5%
9.  Mark Jackson  18  31  58.1%
10.  Gary Payton  15  26  57.7%
11.  Kevin Johnson  12  21  57.1%
12.  Michael Jordan  25  46  54.3%
13.  LeBron James  37  70  52.9%
14.  Kobe Bryant  19  36  52.8%
15.  Lamar Odom  12  23  52.2%
16.  Alvin Robertson  13  26  50%
17.  Chris Paul  11  22  50%
18.  Larry Bird  31  65  47.7%
19.  Charles Barkley  20  42  47.6%
20.  Clyde Drexler  21  46  45.7%
21.  Baron Davis  10  22  45.5%
22.  Scottie Pippen  17  49  34.7%
23.  Kevin Garnett  16  51  31.4%
Average  26  47  54.7%

What I was expecting to find was that James converts at a historically low rate, because he seems to have a near triple double almost every game (I am sure the data would suggest that if the thresholds were lowered to 8, but then it would relate less to chasing stats than simply being well rounded). I found instead that he was incredibly average.

Rondo on the other hand, has a historically high conversion rate. There are always anomolies when dealing with samples of this size, but given his reputation as a stat chaser, I think that this is fairly indicative. Same goes for Antoine Walker.

Not surprisingly, some guys with reputations of being obsessed with winning are near the bottom: Garnett, Pippen, Bird, Paul. Again, a name like Baron Davis makes me realize that there is a good bit of noise in this data, but I still find it interesting.

At the risk of further decreasing sample size, I looked at anyone with at least 4 triple doubles (again, PTS, AST, REBs) in the last 3 years, and their conversion rates:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Stephenson  5  5  100%
2.  Curry  4  5  80%
3.  Rondo  12  17  70.6%
4.  Durant  6  9  66.7%
5.  Batum  4  7  57.1%
6.  Noah  6  11  54.5%
7.  Lowry  4  8  50%
8.  James  5  14  35.7%
Average  6  10  60.5%

Even though the samples are smaller, I think that (confirmation bias aside) this list is very indicative of stat-chasing habits. Lance has never had a game with 9 point, 9 rebounds and 9 assists that wasn't a triple double. That's pretty significant considering the average conversion rate is 60.5%. It is also not surprising, as Lance has turned stat chasing into performance art this season. Again, Rondo comes out on the high end, while guys with unselfish reputations such as Noah, Lowry and a matured James are well below the average.

To reiterate, I know there is a ton of noise in these figures, but I found them pretty interesting none-the-less and figured I would share them.

TL;DR: Despite some small sample sizes and lots of noise, data supports the notion that Rondo and Lance Stephenson like to chase triple doubles, while guys like Noah, Garnett and LeBron aren't as concerned with that particular stat.

  When people start talking about motivations they really go off the reservation. Rondo plays through a dislocated elbow to try and win a playoff series and he's obsessed with padding stats and not winning. Scottie Pippen refuses to go into a playoff game because someone besides him was going to shoot the ball and he's obsessed with winning and not stats. It's just hogwash.

[Monkhouse]

Another interesting stat is that people think Rondo stat pads in the playoffs. I completely disagree with that statement, but a reddit user posted some factual information.

I decided to take a look at the rate at which certain active and all-time tripdub greats convert near triple doubles into the real thing - with the hypothesis that more selfish players would have a higher rate of conversion. Below is a list of all players with at least 10 triple doubles since 1985, using only PTS, REBS and ASTS (I deemed these the most chasable stats) along with the rate at which they converted them:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Rajon Rondo  19  27  70.4%
2.  Fat Lever  42  64  65.6%
3.  Grant Hill  29  46  63%
4.  Antoine Walker  15  24  62.5%
5.  Darrell Walker  15  24  62.5%
6.  Magic Johnson  69  112  61.6%
7.  Jason Kidd  107  177  60.5%
8.  Chris Webber  22  37  59.5%
9.  Mark Jackson  18  31  58.1%
10.  Gary Payton  15  26  57.7%
11.  Kevin Johnson  12  21  57.1%
12.  Michael Jordan  25  46  54.3%
13.  LeBron James  37  70  52.9%
14.  Kobe Bryant  19  36  52.8%
15.  Lamar Odom  12  23  52.2%
16.  Alvin Robertson  13  26  50%
17.  Chris Paul  11  22  50%
18.  Larry Bird  31  65  47.7%
19.  Charles Barkley  20  42  47.6%
20.  Clyde Drexler  21  46  45.7%
21.  Baron Davis  10  22  45.5%
22.  Scottie Pippen  17  49  34.7%
23.  Kevin Garnett  16  51  31.4%
Average  26  47  54.7%

What I was expecting to find was that James converts at a historically low rate, because he seems to have a near triple double almost every game (I am sure the data would suggest that if the thresholds were lowered to 8, but then it would relate less to chasing stats than simply being well rounded). I found instead that he was incredibly average.

Rondo on the other hand, has a historically high conversion rate. There are always anomolies when dealing with samples of this size, but given his reputation as a stat chaser, I think that this is fairly indicative. Same goes for Antoine Walker.

Not surprisingly, some guys with reputations of being obsessed with winning are near the bottom: Garnett, Pippen, Bird, Paul. Again, a name like Baron Davis makes me realize that there is a good bit of noise in this data, but I still find it interesting.

At the risk of further decreasing sample size, I looked at anyone with at least 4 triple doubles (again, PTS, AST, REBs) in the last 3 years, and their conversion rates:
Rank  Player  Triple Doubles  3x9s  Conversion Rate
1.  Stephenson  5  5  100%
2.  Curry  4  5  80%
3.  Rondo  12  17  70.6%
4.  Durant  6  9  66.7%
5.  Batum  4  7  57.1%
6.  Noah  6  11  54.5%
7.  Lowry  4  8  50%
8.  James  5  14  35.7%
Average  6  10  60.5%

Even though the samples are smaller, I think that (confirmation bias aside) this list is very indicative of stat-chasing habits. Lance has never had a game with 9 point, 9 rebounds and 9 assists that wasn't a triple double. That's pretty significant considering the average conversion rate is 60.5%. It is also not surprising, as Lance has turned stat chasing into performance art this season. Again, Rondo comes out on the high end, while guys with unselfish reputations such as Noah, Lowry and a matured James are well below the average.

To reiterate, I know there is a ton of noise in these figures, but I found them pretty interesting none-the-less and figured I would share them.

TL;DR: Despite some small sample sizes and lots of noise, data supports the notion that Rondo and Lance Stephenson like to chase triple doubles, while guys like Noah, Garnett and LeBron aren't as concerned with that particular stat.

  When people start talking about motivations they really go off the reservation. Rondo plays through a dislocated elbow to try and win a playoff series and he's obsessed with padding stats and not winning. Scottie Pippen refuses to go into a playoff game because someone besides him was going to shoot the ball and he's obsessed with winning and not stats. It's just hogwash.

Oh yeah, I disagree with any of the statements that Rondo stat pads in the playoffs...

Hes a competitor day in and day out. I remember he had like what 6 pts, 4 rebounds, and 2 assists in the first 4 minutes of Game 2 or 3 against the Heat?