Author Topic: Breaking News: Sterling's wife tells Barbara Walters she will fight any attempt  (Read 18559 times)

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Offline Kuberski33

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The Anti Trust Issue aside (and thanks guys, love the fact that I'm learning something here..lol) just the fact that the NBA wants to strip ownership and force a sale because of something someone said....just strikes me as not right.

Personally the whole politically correct thing I think has just has gone way too far.  And while I understand that Sterling was being racist and/or delusional - it's still words.  His comments haven't broken any law. 

Yes, they were incredibly stupid, yes they have probably harmed the business of the NBA in terms of lost sponsorships and PR damage.  Yes if he continues to own the team the league is going to have big problems - but we still have a right to free speech in this country. 

The minute opening your mouth can cause you to have personal property taken away, we've lost it.  Keeping in mind this is a country where a musical artist can talk about killing cops and that's ok.
Free speech doesn't mean freedom from business consequences. Saying such awful things about your employees is always going to be a quick ticket to the exit, especially when your employees are both unionized and powerful (due to their scarce nature, can't hire replacement players without the viewing public turning away)
I agree.  But in any other business, the market sorts out the problem.  If a small business owner does what Sterling did, a percentage of his customers will take their business elsewhere and potential new customers will refuse to do business with him.  And the business will likely suffer.  But no one's coming in and taking away his business just because he says something hateful.  Granted the NBA is a little bit of a different set up, but its still taking away property for words that someone says. 

Offline fairweatherfan

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The Anti Trust Issue aside (and thanks guys, love the fact that I'm learning something here..lol) just the fact that the NBA wants to strip ownership and force a sale because of something someone said....just strikes me as not right.

Personally the whole politically correct thing I think has just has gone way too far.  And while I understand that Sterling was being racist and/or delusional - it's still words.  His comments haven't broken any law. 

Yes, they were incredibly stupid, yes they have probably harmed the business of the NBA in terms of lost sponsorships and PR damage.  Yes if he continues to own the team the league is going to have big problems - but we still have a right to free speech in this country. 

The minute opening your mouth can cause you to have personal property taken away, we've lost it.  Keeping in mind this is a country where a musical artist can talk about killing cops and that's ok.
Free speech doesn't mean freedom from business consequences. Saying such awful things about your employees is always going to be a quick ticket to the exit, especially when your employees are both unionized and powerful (due to their scarce nature, can't hire replacement players without the viewing public turning away)
I agree.  But in any other business, the market sorts out the problem.  If a small business owner does what Sterling did, a percentage of his customers will take their business elsewhere and potential new customers will refuse to do business with him.  And the business will likely suffer.  But no one's coming in and taking away his business just because he says something hateful.  Granted the NBA is a little bit of a different set up, but its still taking away property for words that someone says.

A big part of the reason why Sterling was penalized so harshly and quickly is because the market was in the process of aggressively sorting out the problem, by means ranging from dropped sponsors to public protests to a league-wide boycott of playoff games.  Those consequences, especially the last one, wouldn't have only hurt the Clippers but the NBA as a whole.  I don't think any organization has a duty to take that kind of damage protecting a guy who'd been seen as a detriment to the organization for decades.

And this isn't exclusive to the NBA - if a McDonald's franchisee says something racist that gets a ton of public attention, McDonald's isn't going to let the market punish them; they'll minimize the damage to their brand by stripping the franchisee of their franchise rights as soon as possible.  Most franchise arrangements have similar procedures for the same reason.

Online slamtheking

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selfishly hoping this blows up on the Clip's organization and gives us a prime pick next year.

Offline Fafnir

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The Anti Trust Issue aside (and thanks guys, love the fact that I'm learning something here..lol) just the fact that the NBA wants to strip ownership and force a sale because of something someone said....just strikes me as not right.

Personally the whole politically correct thing I think has just has gone way too far.  And while I understand that Sterling was being racist and/or delusional - it's still words.  His comments haven't broken any law. 

Yes, they were incredibly stupid, yes they have probably harmed the business of the NBA in terms of lost sponsorships and PR damage.  Yes if he continues to own the team the league is going to have big problems - but we still have a right to free speech in this country. 

The minute opening your mouth can cause you to have personal property taken away, we've lost it.  Keeping in mind this is a country where a musical artist can talk about killing cops and that's ok.
Free speech doesn't mean freedom from business consequences. Saying such awful things about your employees is always going to be a quick ticket to the exit, especially when your employees are both unionized and powerful (due to their scarce nature, can't hire replacement players without the viewing public turning away)
I agree.  But in any other business, the market sorts out the problem.  If a small business owner does what Sterling did, a percentage of his customers will take their business elsewhere and potential new customers will refuse to do business with him.  And the business will likely suffer.  But no one's coming in and taking away his business just because he says something hateful.  Granted the NBA is a little bit of a different set up, but its still taking away property for words that someone says.
How is the NBA mitigating the damage not "the market"?

Sponsorship drops, corporate stepping in, the labor market making their opinions known, etc etc, that's all "the market".

Offline mmmmm

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The Anti Trust Issue aside (and thanks guys, love the fact that I'm learning something here..lol) just the fact that the NBA wants to strip ownership and force a sale because of something someone said....just strikes me as not right.

Personally the whole politically correct thing I think has just has gone way too far.  And while I understand that Sterling was being racist and/or delusional - it's still words.  His comments haven't broken any law. 

Yes, they were incredibly stupid, yes they have probably harmed the business of the NBA in terms of lost sponsorships and PR damage.  Yes if he continues to own the team the league is going to have big problems - but we still have a right to free speech in this country. 

The minute opening your mouth can cause you to have personal property taken away, we've lost it.  Keeping in mind this is a country where a musical artist can talk about killing cops and that's ok.
Free speech doesn't mean freedom from business consequences. Saying such awful things about your employees is always going to be a quick ticket to the exit, especially when your employees are both unionized and powerful (due to their scarce nature, can't hire replacement players without the viewing public turning away)
I agree.  But in any other business, the market sorts out the problem.  If a small business owner does what Sterling did, a percentage of his customers will take their business elsewhere and potential new customers will refuse to do business with him.  And the business will likely suffer.  But no one's coming in and taking away his business just because he says something hateful.  Granted the NBA is a little bit of a different set up, but its still taking away property for words that someone says.

No one is taking away Sterling's property.

They are threatening to revoke his franchise agreement, without which his property would be relatively worthless.

Thus what they are doing is simply making it in his best interest to sell his property.

Selling your property and having your property taken away are two very, very different things and should not be confused here.


NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Offline jaketwice

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I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion that Silver has the votes: Gilbert ranted about LeBron, Herb Simon is an old guy; Cuban has spoken publicly about the "slippery slope" of forcing someone to sell a team. Prokhorov is a Russian, and should be concerned about this kind of precedent. Joe Lacob is already wildly disliked, Sarver's life revolves around his team, and Benson was pretty burned by NFL league action when the Saints were punished for the head-hunting scandal.

Sterling needs 8 votes to keep the team. If the meeting is open ballot - he is done. But if they do it closed ballot, just for precedent's sake - I think there is a substantial risk he keeps the team.

Anyway, even if he loses - I don't know if his private comments, even after a vote of ownership, will be sufficient to divest his interest. He can appeal that ruling as, essentially, an arbitrator decision. Is it fair to lose a billion dollar asset because of a private comment? I can see some Federal Judges saying "no."

Either way - the longer uncertainty swirls around the Clippers, the better for the Celtics - and every other NBA franchise.

Offline nickagneta

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Does it matter whether the Sterlings have a leg to stand on to win any type of legal fight? Isn't it more important to the Sterlings to have enough of a case to get an injunction and stall the process in the courts endlessly. If they do that and in the meantime, Sterling dies, couldn't Shelly and anyone else that inherits Donald Sterling's portion now argue that Sterling is gone and the matter resolved? Wouldn't the league now look at his death as his removal and have a desire to stop spending millions on litigation and just accept the owners that Sterling's death puts in place?

Perhaps the best Sterling strategy is attrition?
Players and NBA have been pretty clear that they want them both gone. I don't think dragging out that process would change anything with regards to that.
Opinions change over time. Attrition would be all about making the process so long that it changes the opinions of people and make them settle for a lesser goal.

Offline jaketwice

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Does it matter whether the Sterlings have a leg to stand on to win any type of legal fight? Isn't it more important to the Sterlings to have enough of a case to get an injunction and stall the process in the courts endlessly. If they do that and in the meantime, Sterling dies, couldn't Shelly and anyone else that inherits Donald Sterling's portion now argue that Sterling is gone and the matter resolved? Wouldn't the league now look at his death as his removal and have a desire to stop spending millions on litigation and just accept the owners that Sterling's death puts in place?

Perhaps the best Sterling strategy is attrition?
Players and NBA have been pretty clear that they want them both gone. I don't think dragging out that process would change anything with regards to that.
Opinions change over time. Attrition would be all about making the process so long that it changes the opinions of people and make them settle for a lesser goal.

Agreed - if Sterling dies, it changes everything. He is 80 and has cancer. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/california-life-expectancy-by-county-male

Offline Fafnir

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Does it matter whether the Sterlings have a leg to stand on to win any type of legal fight? Isn't it more important to the Sterlings to have enough of a case to get an injunction and stall the process in the courts endlessly. If they do that and in the meantime, Sterling dies, couldn't Shelly and anyone else that inherits Donald Sterling's portion now argue that Sterling is gone and the matter resolved? Wouldn't the league now look at his death as his removal and have a desire to stop spending millions on litigation and just accept the owners that Sterling's death puts in place?

Perhaps the best Sterling strategy is attrition?
Players and NBA have been pretty clear that they want them both gone. I don't think dragging out that process would change anything with regards to that.
Opinions change over time. Attrition would be all about making the process so long that it changes the opinions of people and make them settle for a lesser goal.
I don't see the opinions of the players changing.

NBA might want to stop fighting to avoid legal costs, but the players won't care about that.

Online slamtheking

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Does it matter whether the Sterlings have a leg to stand on to win any type of legal fight? Isn't it more important to the Sterlings to have enough of a case to get an injunction and stall the process in the courts endlessly. If they do that and in the meantime, Sterling dies, couldn't Shelly and anyone else that inherits Donald Sterling's portion now argue that Sterling is gone and the matter resolved? Wouldn't the league now look at his death as his removal and have a desire to stop spending millions on litigation and just accept the owners that Sterling's death puts in place?

Perhaps the best Sterling strategy is attrition?
Players and NBA have been pretty clear that they want them both gone. I don't think dragging out that process would change anything with regards to that.
Opinions change over time. Attrition would be all about making the process so long that it changes the opinions of people and make them settle for a lesser goal.

Agreed - if Sterling dies, it changes everything. He is 80 and has cancer. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/california-life-expectancy-by-county-male
does it though?  the players have been vocal about not wanting to play for Sterling.  I believe Doc has also mentioned he doesn't want to coach a Sterling-owned team.  this is regardless of it being Donald or his ex.

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I might add that Magic Johnson said recently that the players would not play for anyone named "Sterling".  Chris Mannix says that a Sterling will almost certainly remain owner through next season as legal process plays out.

2+2=?

The more the Great Liar speaks the more this entire thing looks like a setup that the Great Liar is in the middle of.

I might add that things seem to be moving along nicely for the Great Liar to buy the team by any means necessary.  Hopefully the Sterlings will put a monkey wrench in the Great Liar's plan.

His silly opinion about the players is just that.  The players and the pompous faux-victim Rivers will not walk away from their paychecks...If they do...I'm sure there are 15 other players and many coaches more than willing to work for somebody named Sterling while this is being litigated.

Offline saltlover

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I have enjoyed the debate, and SL has raised great points. But I have a real question about the above...

Why is it that a small group of like minded businessmen working together to control access and limit membership, as well as the rules governing membership, in a small market place not collusion?

I await the usual insightful explanation.  :)

The key word that you touch on is "small market place".  That's the point about market definitions.  If the NBA is viewed solely as being in the market of professional basketball, which is distinct from the larger sports and/or entertainment markets, then it is in fact collusion, because they're working together to control almost the entire market.  However, the argument is that they are working together to brand their product in the larger entertainment market, and doing so helps them remain competitive. 

They've started a joint venture, the NBA, which shares some administration costs, marketing costs, negotiates national broadcast contracts, engages in some revenue sharing because the individual health of each company is important to the collective body, etc.  Because their fortunes are intertwined, they have agreed to give each other real control about who can be part of the group.  Joint ventures happen all the time.  Sometimes they're between two relatively non-competitive companies who've found a synergy between their products which they want to capitalize on, but they are also sometimes found between competitors.  Automakers have shared manufacturing plants.  Two wireless companies in Alaska formed a new company to collective share their resources, but continue offering wireless service.

The question is always "how competitive is the market?" and to answer that it just comes t back to that same question of what is the market.  You can answer this yourself in a thought experiment.  If you're watching a lopsided basketball game, especially if it's not a Celtics game, do you:

a) keep watching regardless?
b) search for another NBA basketball game?
c) search for another sporting event?
d) watch a TV show or movie?
e) stream something on Netflix?
f) turn off the TV

If you answered a or b, that indicates that you don't substitute from basketball much.  If everyone who watches the NBA is like you, then yes, the NBA's proper market is probably just professional basketball.  However, if you, or most people, would answer c, d, or e, then the NBA is probably in a larger entertainment market.  (If you answered f, then we could argue that you're exiting the market, but we'd want to delve further into what you chose to do instead).

You could do a similar thought experiment with going to an actual game, but that can be more difficult to determine because now you've got those local brand loyalties built in.  Still, ask yourself where you spend your money on leisure activities.  Specifically -- if you were given $100 to spend on a leisure activity, the time and date of your activity was completely up to you, and you were to consider an NBA game as an option, what else would you consider:

a) Nothing other than the NBA
b) Another sporting event
c) A live musical/theatre/dance performance
d) Eating/drinking
e) Clubbing
f) A athletic activity (golfing, skiing, kayaking, climbing, etc.)
g) IMAX movies (multiple, I guess, since we're giving you $100)
h) something else

If you answered a, then again, the product market is pro basketball, and the NBA has control of that market.  But if you would consider b through h, and other people who are interested in the NBA would also consider something else, then the proper product market is something larger.

That the NBA controls pro basketball is not disputed.  What is at issue is whether pro basketball is a distinct market separate from other entertainment options.  I would argue it's not, and that is why the NBA is allowed to exist, to help their product compete in the larger marketplace.  The good news is that thanks to Nielsen, we have third-party data about what people do when watching TV, so the first hypothetical question I posed can be answered by more than mere conjecture.  Certainly the NBA has done enough market research to answer the second as well.  Considering how much has gone into developing luxury boxes, adding restaurants into arenas, and improving the "fan experience", my guess is that research told them that the fans don't come for the basketball alone.  Maybe some of them do, but not all of them.

Offline Ogaju

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The NBA is its own market. Where else are tall lanky people going to work? The players cannot compete in baseball (check out MJ's attempt at baseball) they cannot play football. So not only is the NBA unique for the consumer, it is unique for labor. Oh, and I would really like the NBA to go into court and argue that the NCAA is its competition in basketball, because that will once and for all destroy the concept of NCAA basketball as amateurism.

You are right Salt the bulk of the anti-trust litigation will be defining the product market. And the decision will lie largely not on the facts but on the ideology of the judge and to some extent the jury.

I believe the product market should be restricted to basketball.

Offline hwangjini_1

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Thank you. A lengthy and well done response that is appreciated. But it raises yet another question, which may be taking us too far afield.

Given the above, could not the automakers of the US band together in a similar fashion for similar reasons and brand the "league" as part of the larger "transportation" industry, and that they need to compete with public buses, airlines, bikes, etc?

Thanks again.
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Offline mmmmm

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I'm not sure it's a foregone conclusion that Silver has the votes: Gilbert ranted about LeBron, Herb Simon is an old guy; Cuban has spoken publicly about the "slippery slope" of forcing someone to sell a team. Prokhorov is a Russian, and should be concerned about this kind of precedent. Joe Lacob is already wildly disliked, Sarver's life revolves around his team, and Benson was pretty burned by NFL league action when the Saints were punished for the head-hunting scandal.

Sterling needs 8 votes to keep the team. If the meeting is open ballot - he is done. But if they do it closed ballot, just for precedent's sake - I think there is a substantial risk he keeps the team.

Anyway, even if he loses - I don't know if his private comments, even after a vote of ownership, will be sufficient to divest his interest. He can appeal that ruling as, essentially, an arbitrator decision. Is it fair to lose a billion dollar asset because of a private comment? I can see some Federal Judges saying "no."

Either way - the longer uncertainty swirls around the Clippers, the better for the Celtics - and every other NBA franchise.

It's a fair question whether he'd get the votes if it was a truly anonymous vote.    It's a pretty risky move for an owner to vote for Sterling even if 'closed', though, since that would invariably get out.

As for arbitration - my understanding of the way the NBA constitution works is that don't the owner's basically agree to Silver (the Commissioner) acting as binding arbitrator when they signed on?
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