Author Topic: Larry Legend screwed up  (Read 27641 times)

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Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2014, 06:20:43 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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The trades definitely upset chemistry.  I've never been a fan of trading team leaders, especially in the middle of the season, and you're seeing the effects of that in Indiana.

Bynum is just a cancer, and Turner has apparently upset the volatile Stephenson.  Hibbert and George can't lead, and there's no great calming voice in the locker room right now.

Team leader as in Danny Granger?

Yes.

I don't have an issue with the Bynum pickup. They picked him up for nothing and all reports indicate that he's been fine. The Turner-Granger trade is a different matter. Turner is a player that hasn't learned to play off the ball. He's the kind of player that plays like a star without having the talent to do so. I do think his arrival also called some uneasiness in Stephenson, perhaps looking over his shoulder, at another FA to be in Turner.

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2014, 06:23:32 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I hate to say it, but if the Pacers fail to make the Eastern finals, this would be a big blow to the idea of building a team without tanking, and mostly building through later draft picks.

All things considered Larry has still done a commendable job. Even to build a 50 game winner without high picks or big free agent moves is impressive. They just might not be a real contender for the title.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 06:33:06 PM by Mr October »

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2014, 06:40:45 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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I hate to say it, but if the Pacers fail to make the Eastern finals, this would be a big blow to the idea of building a team without tanking, and mostly building through later draft picks.

All things considered Larry has still done a commendable job. Even to build a 50 game winner without high picks or big free agent moves is impressive. They just might not be a real contender for the title.

What if OKC gets booted as well?

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2014, 06:56:54 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I hate to say it, but if the Pacers fail to make the Eastern finals, this would be a big blow to the idea of building a team without tanking, and mostly building through later draft picks.

All things considered Larry has still done a commendable job. Even to build a 50 game winner without high picks or big free agent moves is impressive. They just might not be a real contender for the title.

What if OKC gets booted as well?

The Grizzlies might be one of the best 7 seeds ever. I like them better than the 1 seed Pacers.

OKC already succeeded in building a contender, based on their run to the finals 2 years ago.

*edit: corrected my seeding numbers. If the Grizzlies had the Pacers schedule in the East, they probably win close to 60 games. It is interesting that they both are big defensive teams. Yet one has much better chemistry, and better bigs.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:09:08 PM by Mr October »

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2014, 07:34:39 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Did OKC win a championship?

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2014, 07:45:40 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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UGGHHH dang Grizzlies, my plan was for them to get swept so they'd blow it up and trade us Gasol!  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2014, 07:51:09 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Im ready to hear all these Rondo to Pacers trade rumors  ;D
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Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2014, 07:53:42 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Did OKC win a championship?

They have built a contender. They haven't built a champion. Only time or luck will tell if they get there.

In my opinion. A contender is a team that makes it to the Finals and/or needs to be a regular in the conference finals. One must also consider the level of competition faced as well.

For example the Celtics run to the 2012 conference finals is not so impressive when you consider that they only beat the Hawks and Sixers to get there. And then once there, they took advantage of a mostly Boshless Miami team.

The Pacers are still on the outside looking in, when gazing at the circle of contenders.

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2014, 08:46:31 PM »

Offline chambers

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Hibbert's been belted with too many minutes this season.
Didn't he increase his load by 10 mins a game? A big guys body and joints can't handle that work without some repercussions.
Granger leaving was huge for their locker room. Did anyone see the video of him leaving and their reactions to the trade?
David West has been an absolute bum/stiff. Lance showed up last night with something like 25 PTA 12 rebounds & Teague hit that joker 3 pointer with his foot on the line but they couldn't review it because it wasn't under 2 minutes left! It was 2 minutes 11 seconds.

Anyone thought Chicago would have a real shot at the ECF with the Pacers falling? They're imploding too.
Too.many.minutes.
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Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2014, 08:58:22 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Did OKC win a championship?

They have built a contender. They haven't built a champion. Only time or luck will tell if they get there.

In my opinion. A contender is a team that makes it to the Finals and/or needs to be a regular in the conference finals. One must also consider the level of competition faced as well.

For example the Celtics run to the 2012 conference finals is not so impressive when you consider that they only beat the Hawks and Sixers to get there. And then once there, they took advantage of a mostly Boshless Miami team.

The Pacers are still on the outside looking in, when gazing at the circle of contenders.

The thunder haven't won anything yet and the heat still had lebron James and Dwayne wadei][/i]

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2014, 09:08:24 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Did OKC win a championship?

They have built a contender. They haven't built a champion. Only time or luck will tell if they get there.

In my opinion. A contender is a team that makes it to the Finals and/or needs to be a regular in the conference finals. One must also consider the level of competition faced as well.

For example the Celtics run to the 2012 conference finals is not so impressive when you consider that they only beat the Hawks and Sixers to get there. And then once there, they took advantage of a mostly Boshless Miami team.

The Pacers are still on the outside looking in, when gazing at the circle of contenders.

The thunder haven't won anything yet and the heat still had lebron James and Dwayne wadei][/i]

Yes, i agree that the thunder haven't won anything yet. Again, i am not calling them a championship winning team. But i could call them a contender for the title. I'm not sure what your point is, when saying that the Thunder haven't won anything yet.  ???

The Paul George Pacers haven't accomplished as much as the Kevin Durant Thunder.

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2014, 09:50:23 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Completely agree - all this "chemistry" stuff just seems like a just-so narrative for a slide that started before the Turner trade piggybacking on a desire to yet again indulge in the "Perk trade cost us a ring!" line of wishful thinking. 

You've hit two of my pet peeves:

2.  Posting "facts" that aren't really true.  The Pacers were 7-3 in their 10 games prior to the Turner trade, with a margin of victory of +6.7.  They were 7-3 in the 10 games before that, as well.  I think it's hard to call that a slide; a .700 win percentage projects to 57 wins.  It's certainly a far cry from the 12-13 record they had post-trade.  Of those 12 wins, 10 were against the Bucks, Lakers, Celtics, Jazz, 76ers, and Pistons.

So, yes, they were a completely different team post-trade.

This is a good point - mixing and matching sample sizes and victory margin can produce some interesting results.  So let's look a bit closer at the actual games.  The Pacers' slump began on their January road trip, when after beating Golden State they coasted through the next 4 games, getting blown out by two lottery teams, barely squeaking by the Kings in OT and then pulling away in the 2nd half vs the Lakers.  They then returned home and were again badly beaten by Phoenix, extending the slump to 3 losses out of 5. 

They made a brief resurgence by squeaking by Brooklyn and Portland at home, along with beating Orlando and Atlanta in Atlanta.  Then they dropped 3 of 5 again, to two lottery teams and the eventual 8 seed Mavs.  They did mix in a win over Atlanta and a 39 point blowout of Denver, which more than doubled their 10-game margin of victory.

Immediately after trading for Turner they won their next 5, but exclusively against bad teams and only decisively beating the Lakers.  Then a close loss to Golden State followed by 3 blowout losses on the road, followed by yet another 4 game win streak against bad teams. Then they stunk out the joint for the rest of the season going 4-9, and continuing vs Atlanta.

If we use the trade as an arbitrary cutoff, sure they played worse afterward than before, but the month before the trade is basically the same as the month after.  They were erratic with some good stretches just before the trade, and erratic with some good stretches just after.
There's little indication that the trade caused the problems after it was made, except for one incident between Turner and the guy who's been involved in every other incident too.  And the trade definitely didn't cause the 5 losses to lottery teams in the month before it was made.  It's just a convenient narrative to attach to their problems.

1.  Psychoanalyzing other posters and assigning them motivations.  Unless you're a mind-reader, this seems inappropriate.

This is actually one of my pet peeves too.  You'd need something like a repeated explicit connection between the two events to conclude they were related.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 09:57:34 PM by foulweatherfan »

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2014, 04:20:53 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Did OKC win a championship?

They have built a contender. They haven't built a champion. Only time or luck will tell if they get there.

In my opinion. A contender is a team that makes it to the Finals and/or needs to be a regular in the conference finals. One must also consider the level of competition faced as well.

For example the Celtics run to the 2012 conference finals is not so impressive when you consider that they only beat the Hawks and Sixers to get there. And then once there, they took advantage of a mostly Boshless Miami team.

The Pacers are still on the outside looking in, when gazing at the circle of contenders.

The thunder haven't won anything yet and the heat still had lebron James and Dwayne wadei][/i]

Yes, i agree that the thunder haven't won anything yet. Again, i am not calling them a championship winning team. But i could call them a contender for the title. I'm not sure what your point is, when saying that the Thunder haven't won anything yet.  ???

The Paul George Pacers haven't accomplished as much as the Kevin Durant Thunder.

Still I don't think you should dismiss the Pacers as contenders, even they aren't one now. They're still young and have plenty of room to improve to be contenders.

Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2014, 09:55:37 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I hate to say it, but if the Pacers fail to make the Eastern finals, this would be a big blow to the idea of building a team without tanking, and mostly building through later draft picks.

All things considered Larry has still done a commendable job. Even to build a 50 game winner without high picks or big free agent moves is impressive. They just might not be a real contender for the title.

What if OKC gets booted as well?
Big difference between losing to Atlanta and losing to Memphis.  I mean Memphis was a final 4 team last year.
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Re: Larry Legend screwed up
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2014, 11:08:11 AM »

Offline footey

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While I don't fault Larry for the turmoil in the locker-room, the fact is that he probably would have been fired a long time ago for his shortcomings as a GM were not Larry Legend in Indiana.