Sullinger's Develpmont/ Sully vs KO

[scotto1205]

It seems there has been alot of controversy lately on the boards about sullinger and ko. I'll go ahead and say while I am high on KO, I prefer Sully as the starter. I like the guys personality he is a good guy and is a winner. His development has been extremely hindered by injuries. I believe having a full off season to get him an nba body and really work on his explosiveness and you pair that with just another year of experience under his belt. I really feel like if we can get him playing just power foward and he can keep extending his range on the jump shot to pair with improved post footwork, which all this isnt out of the question he is only 22. I think at all costs we need to find a legit center not only to improve the team but to maximize Sully's potential. I really think an 18/10 season isn't out of reach, he could easily be the third scoring option with a reliable jump shot and more refined post arsenal. I dont want to give this guy up. While I'd love KO to be a super 6th man, if we make some type of trade I would rather it be centered around KO than Sully.


With all that said its only my opinion. So let me make an official if there hasnt already been one thread of Sully vs KO starter and which would you put in a potential trade for a star?

[scotto1205]

About the trade we could take advantage of KO's amazing end of the season run.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

To me, they shouldn't be a Vs... I just don't get it. We have both of them under rookie contract we can allow both of them to find their way and flourish with us. Honestly, I hope neither gets traded but I guess I'm of the minority.

If it's a question of who should be the starter, if you aren't starting both, you go with who is playing better or who plays better with the starters. I don't see either of them making a fuss over the starting job, I expect both will come in and perform as best they can whether off the bench or starting.

If it's about trading for a star, who is this supposed star? I'm sure like it always is it will be KLove... blegh! I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team, I just don't want him for the price he will cost! I think Sully will eventually be better than Love as it is now you want to give up him and every valuable thing on the team too... I find that so crazy. I know people are laughing at me not wanting to give that for Love but I'm sorry, to me, he is not worth it especially since we have Sully. Sure he will get you points and rebound but he's giving it right back on the other end. I think Sully (good conditioning), will get you 18-20/10 with solid defense added in. Yea Love is going to get you about 6 more points and a couple more rebounds than that but he can't defend a chair. It sounds crazy now but only time will tell who is right. Another thing people talk about is Sully's health and I laugh as they turn around and say they want Love. 0.0

Now, what other star do you think we can realistically get by giving either one of them up? I bet names will pop up knowing we have no chance at these players. I also think any other players you can bring up are either not worth it or can be had for something else (please don't say Melo... Lord help me).

The grass is always greener. KLove will probably get you more wins in the regular season but you will still be on the outside looking in because if we gut all that's valuable for him we can't afford anyone else that we will need to make us playoff contenders much less championship level! Make up all the scenarios you want (seems to be ones that only benefit us), just don't forget the other team has to agree! It's hard to look at it from the other team's perspective no matter how many times "you" say if I were them, you are still doing it in a way that would benefit the Celtics and you aren't doing what opposing GMs are, they are trying to get a win for them, not a win win like fans think LOL!

[scotto1205]

To me, they shouldn't be a Vs... I just don't get it. We have both of them under rookie contract we can allow both of them to find their way and flourish with us. Honestly, I hope neither gets traded but I guess I'm of the minority.

If it's a question of who should be the starter, if you aren't starting both, you go with who is playing better or who plays better with the starters. I don't see either of them making a fuss over the starting job, I expect both will come in and perform as best they can whether off the bench or starting.

If it's about trading for a star, who is this supposed star? I'm sure like it always is it will be KLove... blegh! I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team, I just don't want him for the price he will cost! I think Sully will eventually be better than Love as it is now you want to give up him and every valuable thing on the team too... I find that so crazy. I know people are laughing at me not wanting to give that for Love but I'm sorry, to me, he is not worth it especially since we have Sully. Sure he will get you points and rebound but he's giving it right back on the other end. I think Sully (good conditioning), will get you 18-20/10 with solid defense added in. Yea Love is going to get you about 6 more points and a couple more rebounds than that but he can't defend a chair. It sounds crazy now but only time will tell who is right. Another thing people talk about is Sully's health and I laugh as they turn around and say they want Love. 0.0

Now, what other star do you think we can realistically get by giving either one of them up? I bet names will pop up knowing we have no chance at these players. I also think any other players you can bring up are either not worth it or can be had for something else (please don't say Melo... Lord help me).

The grass is always greener. KLove will probably get you more wins in the regular season but you will still be on the outside looking in because if we gut all that's valuable for him we can't afford anyone else that we will need to make us playoff contenders much less championship level! Make up all the scenarios you want (seems to be ones that only benefit us), just don't forget the other team has to agree! It's hard to look at it from the other team's perspective no matter how many times "you" say if I were them, you are still doing it in a way that would benefit the Celtics and you aren't doing what opposing GMs are, they are trying to get a win for them, not a win win like fans think LOL!

I said I wanted both of them on them on the team. Also thank you for the lecture on the kevin love trade that I proposed. Im pro-tank and I want to contend. So I want to bring in guys that will help us win. Parsons, Klay Thompson, Lance Stephenson, dragic all possible all star players you could bring in.


off topic, What if pacers bust in the 1st round and all this crazyness makes him want to leave. I think the lack of a true ball handler and facilitator is killing the pacers. Noone is trusting each other and there is zero flow. Trade Rondo to pacers for S/T stephenson, copeland mahinmi and a future first. Then draft exum as your pg of the future.

Exum-Stephenson-Green-Sullinger-Mahinmi while mahinmi is less than ideal hopefully come 2015 we can get ourselves a legit center.

[clover]

I think it's fair to ask, if the C's have to trade one of them as part of a trade for a star or more needed player (rim-protecting center), which one would you least mind parting with?

I"m with KO, though I can understand why some others like JS. I just think JS has been exposed as being unable to guard too many of the best frontcourt players, whereas KO IMO will end up as a good-enough defender at the 4 (see how much better he did against Dirk the second time he saw him) and also contribute a fair amount more on the offensive end. JS IMO will be a very good player, but KO will end up a legitimate star.

[scotto1205]

I think it's fair to ask, if the C's have to trade one of them as part of a trade for a star or more needed player (rim-protecting center), which one would you least mind parting with?

I"m with KO, though I can understand why some others like JS. I just think JS has been exposed as being unable to guard too many of the best frontcourt players, whereas KO IMO will end up as a good-enough defender at the 4 (see how much better he did against Dirk the second time he saw him) and also contribute a fair amount more on the offensive end. JS IMO will be a very good player, but KO will end up a legitimate star.

Im sure most would agree this is an excellent problem to have on our hands. Don't you think actually having a full offseason and really good trainers would help sullinger get the body and strength he needs to defend the 4? 

[Sixth Man]

Keep both and continue to develop them.  Our squad is not yet at the point where it would make a lot of sense to seek deals for our developing assets. 

K. Love is a nice player, but I would be extremely wary of overpaying for him.  He's a less than adequate defender...

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

To me, they shouldn't be a Vs... I just don't get it. We have both of them under rookie contract we can allow both of them to find their way and flourish with us. Honestly, I hope neither gets traded but I guess I'm of the minority.

If it's a question of who should be the starter, if you aren't starting both, you go with who is playing better or who plays better with the starters. I don't see either of them making a fuss over the starting job, I expect both will come in and perform as best they can whether off the bench or starting.

If it's about trading for a star, who is this supposed star? I'm sure like it always is it will be KLove... blegh! I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team, I just don't want him for the price he will cost! I think Sully will eventually be better than Love as it is now you want to give up him and every valuable thing on the team too... I find that so crazy. I know people are laughing at me not wanting to give that for Love but I'm sorry, to me, he is not worth it especially since we have Sully. Sure he will get you points and rebound but he's giving it right back on the other end. I think Sully (good conditioning), will get you 18-20/10 with solid defense added in. Yea Love is going to get you about 6 more points and a couple more rebounds than that but he can't defend a chair. It sounds crazy now but only time will tell who is right. Another thing people talk about is Sully's health and I laugh as they turn around and say they want Love. 0.0

Now, what other star do you think we can realistically get by giving either one of them up? I bet names will pop up knowing we have no chance at these players. I also think any other players you can bring up are either not worth it or can be had for something else (please don't say Melo... Lord help me).

The grass is always greener. KLove will probably get you more wins in the regular season but you will still be on the outside looking in because if we gut all that's valuable for him we can't afford anyone else that we will need to make us playoff contenders much less championship level! Make up all the scenarios you want (seems to be ones that only benefit us), just don't forget the other team has to agree! It's hard to look at it from the other team's perspective no matter how many times "you" say if I were them, you are still doing it in a way that would benefit the Celtics and you aren't doing what opposing GMs are, they are trying to get a win for them, not a win win like fans think LOL!

I said I wanted both of them on them on the team. Also thank you for the lecture on the kevin love trade that I proposed. Im pro-tank and I want to contend. So I want to bring in guys that will help us win. Parsons, Klay Thompson, Lance Stephenson, dragic all possible all star players you could bring in.


off topic, What if pacers bust in the 1st round and all this crazyness makes him want to leave. I think the lack of a true ball handler and facilitator is killing the pacers. Noone is trusting each other and there is zero flow. Trade Rondo to pacers for S/T stephenson, copeland mahinmi and a future first. Then draft exum as your pg of the future.

Exum-Stephenson-Green-Sullinger-Mahinmi while mahinmi is less than ideal hopefully come 2015 we can get ourselves a legit center.

I said that the people that would be brought up would not be worth them and w/e needed to get them or those players would not be available.

Dragic is going nowhere, I would bet good money on it. Stephenson is overrated by many, being a hot head is only one problem I see with him... we would never give up KO or Sully for him, one reason is we don't need him and another is you don't give up talented bigs for little guys (I could offer more reasons but the point for me has been made). Klay is likely not going anywhere either but let's say he is available,  KO and Sully wont be used to acquire him. You are giving up so much to acquire small guards when there isn't a need with AB, you could argue they are better (I don't agree that Klay is), I just don't see why we give up other assets (more money to Lance) for not much of an upgrade.

Finally, I would seriously consider finding some way to get Danny's phone # to cuss him out if he takes that package for RR... thanks but no thanks!

Edit: the reason I think Lance is overrated by many is because they think he is going to be a superstar. I would like him on the team but I don't see him getting much better than the very solid player that he already is.

[scotto1205]

To me, they shouldn't be a Vs... I just don't get it. We have both of them under rookie contract we can allow both of them to find their way and flourish with us. Honestly, I hope neither gets traded but I guess I'm of the minority.

If it's a question of who should be the starter, if you aren't starting both, you go with who is playing better or who plays better with the starters. I don't see either of them making a fuss over the starting job, I expect both will come in and perform as best they can whether off the bench or starting.

If it's about trading for a star, who is this supposed star? I'm sure like it always is it will be KLove... blegh! I'm not saying I wouldn't want him on the team, I just don't want him for the price he will cost! I think Sully will eventually be better than Love as it is now you want to give up him and every valuable thing on the team too... I find that so crazy. I know people are laughing at me not wanting to give that for Love but I'm sorry, to me, he is not worth it especially since we have Sully. Sure he will get you points and rebound but he's giving it right back on the other end. I think Sully (good conditioning), will get you 18-20/10 with solid defense added in. Yea Love is going to get you about 6 more points and a couple more rebounds than that but he can't defend a chair. It sounds crazy now but only time will tell who is right. Another thing people talk about is Sully's health and I laugh as they turn around and say they want Love. 0.0

Now, what other star do you think we can realistically get by giving either one of them up? I bet names will pop up knowing we have no chance at these players. I also think any other players you can bring up are either not worth it or can be had for something else (please don't say Melo... Lord help me).

The grass is always greener. KLove will probably get you more wins in the regular season but you will still be on the outside looking in because if we gut all that's valuable for him we can't afford anyone else that we will need to make us playoff contenders much less championship level! Make up all the scenarios you want (seems to be ones that only benefit us), just don't forget the other team has to agree! It's hard to look at it from the other team's perspective no matter how many times "you" say if I were them, you are still doing it in a way that would benefit the Celtics and you aren't doing what opposing GMs are, they are trying to get a win for them, not a win win like fans think LOL!

I said I wanted both of them on them on the team. Also thank you for the lecture on the kevin love trade that I proposed. Im pro-tank and I want to contend. So I want to bring in guys that will help us win. Parsons, Klay Thompson, Lance Stephenson, dragic all possible all star players you could bring in.


off topic, What if pacers bust in the 1st round and all this crazyness makes him want to leave. I think the lack of a true ball handler and facilitator is killing the pacers. Noone is trusting each other and there is zero flow. Trade Rondo to pacers for S/T stephenson, copeland mahinmi and a future first. Then draft exum as your pg of the future.

Exum-Stephenson-Green-Sullinger-Mahinmi while mahinmi is less than ideal hopefully come 2015 we can get ourselves a legit center.

I said that the people that would be brought up would not be worth them and w/e needed to get them or those players would not be available.

Dragic is going nowhere, I would bet good money on it. Stephenson is overrated by many, being a hot head is only one problem I see with him... we would never give up KO or Sully for him, one reason is we don't need him and another is you don't give up talented bigs for little guys (I could offer more reasons but the point for me has been made). Klay is likely not going anywhere either but let's say he is available,  KO and Sully wont be used to acquire him. You are giving up so much to acquire small guards when there isn't a need with AB, you could argue they are better (I don't agree that Klay is), I just don't see why we give up other assets (more money to Lance) for not much of an upgrade.

Finally, I would seriously consider finding some way to get Danny's phone # to cuss him out if he takes that package for RR... thanks but no thanks!

Edit: the reason I think Lance is overrated by many is because they think he is going to be a superstar. I would like him on the team but I don't see him getting much better than the very solid player that he already is.

Im speaking more about the types of players I mentioned there are a ton of that type of quality players in this league. Alot could be available for the type of assets we have I like avery for his qo and thats it he has shown he can stay healthy and im not willing to give him a long term deal thats why I would bring in *Lance Stephenson*

[clover]

I think it's fair to ask, if the C's have to trade one of them as part of a trade for a star or more needed player (rim-protecting center), which one would you least mind parting with?

I"m with KO, though I can understand why some others like JS. I just think JS has been exposed as being unable to guard too many of the best frontcourt players, whereas KO IMO will end up as a good-enough defender at the 4 (see how much better he did against Dirk the second time he saw him) and also contribute a fair amount more on the offensive end. JS IMO will be a very good player, but KO will end up a legitimate star.

Im sure most would agree this is an excellent problem to have on our hands. Don't you think actually having a full offseason and really good trainers would help sullinger get the body and strength he needs to defend the 4?

It should help, but I'm not sold. Still, if Danny doesn't have a compelling 'fireworks' package for him this summer, I expect we'll get to see, with next year being a transitional year (i.e., probably just making the playoffs), as the young guys mature.

Also, I think unless Sully improves significantly out to the 3, his 20-10 contribution will be problematic offensively, strange as it sounds. Like KO, I think he needs to be paired with a rim-protecting center. But that center is unlikely to be able to space the floor on offense either, meaning that the offense will be challenged with such a frontcourt. KO, to the contrary, opens up the floor such that a rim-protecting, defensive-specialist center won't be damaging on offense.

[PhoSita]

I was glad to see KO do so well in the second half of this season, but I think it's very premature to start talking about KO potentially being a better or more valuable player long term than Sullinger. 

Very few of the games the Celtics played after the All-Star break were meaningful, and it didn't seem like many of the opponents were too invested in defending the Celtics, least of all Kelly.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

sully is a beast!!!

[Celtics4ever]

sully is a beast!!!

Not at long range shooting he is not.

Hopefully, he gets in shape and works on his shot ( 26% he needs it)   but also continues to work at what he is best at which is low post stuff.   I think Sully inside and KO outside would be neat to watch.   It would be porous on defense but both can pass well and I think it would be fun.

As far as development, KO has developed more than Sully.   Sully was already very good as a rookie and only injury derailed him.   That does not mean KO is better but he has improved more than Sully has folks.   Sully is about the same guy as he came into the league at.   I have not seen a new shot ( at least one that he is good at) nor anything added to his arsenal because he was effective already coming in.  KO has shown me more development.   

KO is a confidence player and Sully always has it.  KO played poorly when he lost his mojo.   Sully always goes head to head and sometimes he loses but he always battles.

[Celtics18]

I was glad to see KO do so well in the second half of this season, but I think it's very premature to start talking about KO potentially being a better or more valuable player long term than Sullinger. 

Very few of the games the Celtics played after the All-Star break were meaningful, and it didn't seem like many of the opponents were too invested in defending the Celtics, least of all Kelly.

I think what you're saying is partially true.  On the other hand, I also think one of the primary reasons the opposition didn't look too interested in guarding KO is because he has a game that's not particularly easy to guard. 

The fact that he's seven foot tall and can hit the jumper from deep, but also put the ball on the floor and go by people when they rush at him, is going to cause a lot of trouble for defenders.  It's hard to know what to do with a guy like Kelly who can do so many things offensively. 

Kelly is also a very smart and opportunistic scorer.  He runs the floor well and is a great finisher in transition.  He crashes the boards, often from the perimeter where the opposition falls asleep on him.  He'll make good cuts, and he fills the lane well on the PnR.

I definitely don't think that just saying defenses weren't paying any attention to him during the second half of the season does justice to the improvements he made over the course of his rookie campaign.

 

[D.o.s.]

I definitely don't think that just saying defenses weren't paying any attention to him during the second half of the season does justice to the improvements he made over the course of his rookie campaign.

I feel it's 6 in one hand, half-a-dozen in the other.