Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?

[PhoSita]

I gotta say, now with OKC on the verge of eliminiation, this actually might be a possibility.

I mean I think most GMs would agree that Westbrook is a better player but at what point does OKC not consider the idea of shaking things up if they can't win a title with the 2nd best player in the league in Durant?

What about something like this

Celts get Westbrook, Perry Jones and Hasheem Thabeet
OKC gets Rondo, Jeff Green

Even if OKC would consider -- I really doubt it -- I think they'd need to be getting our 1st round pick this year in addition to Rondo.

[D.o.s.]

it never gets old.

When Westbrook was out, Durant averaged less than two more shots per game. If someone really is stealing shots from KD, it isn't Russell Westbrook.

  Who is he stealing shots from? Right now the guy's not only taking the most shots on the team per minute, he's leading the league in usage for the playoffs by a pretty healthy margin. He has a TS% of .442 and on top of that he's averaging almost 5 turnovers a game. I'm somewhat baffled that you don't see why that's a problem.

He's taken exactly 3 more shots than Durant in the series. He's second on the team in +/- for the series (behind Ibaka), and he's hit 84% of his free throws compared to KD's 71% -- while they've each attempted 38 and 39 free throws, respectively.

I'm somewhat battled that you don't see why I'm not concerned with his game. The Thunder are losing because the Grizz are doing an excellent job shutting down Durant, not because of Westbrook shooting the ball "too much."

[CFAN38]

I apologize I have not read all the pages in this post.

But here are my 2 cents

Rondo for Westbrook would be a great deal for the Cs, westbrook would instantly give the Cs a #1 offensive option. His added size at PG would make him a better match in the backcourt for AB (if resigned). My only I would have two major concerns but both could also be said for Rondo. 1. leadership ability 2. Health

For OKC the trade is more questionable. Durnant would benifit from Rondo distributing the ball but they would need to upgrade the scoring at other positions on the roster (center, SG and 6th man).

OKC needs to make some changes either way. It might not have to be a major westbrook move but they need something. They place to much scoring load on two players. I dont know if this is the coaches doing or just the personnel on the team. If its the coach its time for a change. If they believe its the personnel  then the GM needs to make a move. I think they need to use their nice collection of young assets (Lamb, Jackson, Adams, and Jones) to upgrade their post scoring or 6th man. Their 6th man last year was Martin (14ppg) and before that harden (17ppg). This year its Jackson (13ppg) but alot of that came as a starter filling in for westbrook. I personally would let Jackson continue to grow in the role and morgage some of the future assets to try to work a S&T for Gortat or P Gasol using Perk as the salary filler.

   

[PhoSita]

it never gets old.

When Westbrook was out, Durant averaged less than two more shots per game. If someone really is stealing shots from KD, it isn't Russell Westbrook.

  Who is he stealing shots from? Right now the guy's not only taking the most shots on the team per minute, he's leading the league in usage for the playoffs by a pretty healthy margin. He has a TS% of .442 and on top of that he's averaging almost 5 turnovers a game. I'm somewhat baffled that you don't see why that's a problem.

He's taken exactly 3 more shots than Durant in the series. He's second on the team in +/- for the series (behind Ibaka), and he's hit 84% of his free throws compared to KD's 71% -- while they've each attempted 38 and 39 free throws, respectively.

I'm somewhat battled that you don't see why I'm not concerned with his game. The Thunder are losing because the Grizz are doing an excellent job shutting down Durant, not because of Westbrook shooting the ball "too much."

Yep.  I think you have to give credit to the excellent defense of the Grizzlies, and then look at the lack of offensive balance on the Thunder roster as one culprit for why the Thunder have been unable to adjust to the defense. 

Westbrook is a part of the offensive imbalance on the Thunder roster in that he's one of two guys on the team who takes 20+ shots a game, while nobody else on the team is really capable of taking on a heavy scoring burden. 

I don't think Westbrook is to blame for the imbalance, though.  It's a problem with the structure of the roster and the offensive system in place.  The Thunder are built to win via heavy scoring from Durant and Westbrook, so trying to shoot the team to victory is all Westbrook can do at the moment.  It's just not enough.

[D.o.s.]

Right, I'd agree with that. Whether or not Westbrook could adjust his game to another offensive system is totally hypothetical at this point.

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

[PhoSita]

Right, I'd agree with that. Whether or not Westbrook could adjust his game to another offensive system is totally hypothetical at this point.

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

I think a pure passer might be more capable of finding other players on the Thunder when they are open.  But those players would still have to make shots, and there just aren't many shot-makers on that team other than Westbrook and Durant. 

You're not going to beat the Grizzlies by having Ibaka take 10 mid-range jumpers a game, or by running Caron Butler, Derek Fisher, or Thabo Sefolosha off screens.  There aren't even any post players on the Thunder for a passing point guard to throw entry passes to.  That's an area where Ibaka and Durant still have considerable work to do.

Assuming he's amnestied, I wouldn't be surprised to see Carlos Boozer join the Thunder next season as a bench option similar to the role that Luis Scola plays on the Pacers, for that reason.  Could give them a nice post-scoring option to bring in when iso-dribble offense is stalling.  When it's not, he still has a decent mid-range shot to spread the floor a bit.

[BballTim]

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

  That's not what people are saying, that's just the level of thought that you give to the points that you disagree with. Plenty of people here can read things like "Westbrook has a TS% of 42% and a significantly higher usage rate than anyone else in the playoffs" and make connections that don't involve our eroding manufacturing base.

   

[Moranis]

I gotta say, now with OKC on the verge of eliminiation, this actually might be a possibility.

I mean I think most GMs would agree that Westbrook is a better player but at what point does OKC not consider the idea of shaking things up if they can't win a title with the 2nd best player in the league in Durant?

What about something like this

Celts get Westbrook, Perry Jones and Hasheem Thabeet
OKC gets Rondo, Jeff Green

Oklahoma City would do a lot better than that if they traded Westbrook on the open market.  Some trades I think they could potentially make

with Lakers (during free agency)
Westbrook, Perkins for LAL #1 (whomever they drafted), Nash, Pau (sign and traded - something like 3yrs, 35 million)

with Rockets
Westbrook for Parsons, Asik, Jones, a couple of firsts

with TWolves
Westbrook, Perkins for Pekovic, Rubio, Barea/Moute

with Pelicans
Westbrook for Holiday, Anderson (pending physicals for both)

with Cavs
Westbrook for Irving, filler

I'm sure there are plenty of other realistic trades out there where OKC can move Westbrook and get a much better offer than anything Boston would realistically offer (i.e. I can't see Boston moving both Rondo and the high 1st for Westbrook).

[pokeKingCurtis]

Right, I'd agree with that. Whether or not Westbrook could adjust his game to another offensive system is totally hypothetical at this point.

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

[PhoSita]

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

Plenty of people here can read things like "Westbrook has a TS% of 42% and a significantly higher usage rate than anyone else in the playoffs" and make connections that don't involve our eroding manufacturing base.

 

Pointing that out, though, implies that the Thunder would be better off with Westbrook taking fewer shots and distributing those shot attempts elsewhere.  The question I have is, who is taking on the extra scoring load?  Is Durant going to take 40 shots a game?  Are the Thunder really capable of generating more quality looks for guys like Ibaka, Butler, Fisher, and Sefolosha?

[BballTim]

Right, I'd agree with that. Whether or not Westbrook could adjust his game to another offensive system is totally hypothetical at this point.

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

I think a pure passer might be more capable of finding other players on the Thunder when they are open.  But those players would still have to make shots, and there just aren't many shot-makers on that team other than Westbrook and Durant. 

  During the season Thabo had an eFG% of 46% on catch and shoots. Jones, Lamb, Fisher, Butler, Ibaka, Jackson and Perk all had eFG% of 50% or higher in catch and shoots. What you're saying isn't really accurate.

[D.o.s.]

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

  That's not what people are saying, that's just the level of thought that you give to the points that you disagree with. Plenty of people here can read things like "Westbrook has a TS% of 42% and a significantly higher usage rate than anyone else in the playoffs" and make connections that don't involve our eroding manufacturing base.

 

I (fairly obviously) think it's overblown. Like Moranis said -- this thread got bumped to lament Westbrook's chucking when he just dropped a  30-13-10 with 4 turnovers and going 9-for-9 when KD posted a 26-8-5 that included 6 turnovers and shooting 50% from the free throw line... but no one's talking about that.

There's also the fact that KD posted a horrendous offensive Rtg in that game (87), thanks largely to tony allen,  and a horrible defensive rating (111) -- both of which are nowhere close to Westbrook's 108 and 107, and neither of which have anything to do with Westbrook shooting a lot -- which he does, to be sure. No one's disputing that.

[PhoSita]

I gotta say, now with OKC on the verge of eliminiation, this actually might be a possibility.

I mean I think most GMs would agree that Westbrook is a better player but at what point does OKC not consider the idea of shaking things up if they can't win a title with the 2nd best player in the league in Durant?

What about something like this

Celts get Westbrook, Perry Jones and Hasheem Thabeet
OKC gets Rondo, Jeff Green

Oklahoma City would do a lot better than that if they traded Westbrook on the open market.  Some trades I think they could potentially make

with Lakers (during free agency)
Westbrook, Perkins for LAL #1 (whomever they drafted), Nash, Pau (sign and traded - something like 3yrs, 35 million)

with Rockets
Westbrook for Parsons, Asik, Jones, a couple of firsts

with TWolves
Westbrook, Perkins for Pekovic, Rubio, Barea/Moute

with Pelicans
Westbrook for Holiday, Anderson (pending physicals for both)

with Cavs
Westbrook for Irving, filler

I'm sure there are plenty of other realistic trades out there where OKC can move Westbrook and get a much better offer than anything Boston would realistically offer (i.e. I can't see Boston moving both Rondo and the high 1st for Westbrook).

Problem with a lot of those trades is I can't see OKC trading Westbrook to a direct conference rival.

Something like Westbrook for Lowry + Ross + Valanciunas + picks, though?  I could see that.

[BballTim]

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

Plenty of people here can read things like "Westbrook has a TS% of 42% and a significantly higher usage rate than anyone else in the playoffs" and make connections that don't involve our eroding manufacturing base.

 

Pointing that out, though, implies that the Thunder would be better off with Westbrook taking fewer shots and distributing those shot attempts elsewhere.  The question I have is, who is taking on the extra scoring load?  Is Durant going to take 40 shots a game?  Are the Thunder really capable of generating more quality looks for guys like Ibaka, Butler, Fisher, and Sefolosha?

  One way of re-wording what you wrote is that Westbrook needs to take so many shots because he's not really capable of generating more quality scoring looks for his teammates. We agree on this.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Right, I'd agree with that. Whether or not Westbrook could adjust his game to another offensive system is totally hypothetical at this point.

But don't let me stop anyone from telling me that a point guard should pass, daggnamit, because that's what point guards do and that things were better back in your day and why isn't anything made in America any more?

I think a pure passer might be more capable of finding other players on the Thunder when they are open.  But those players would still have to make shots, and there just aren't many shot-makers on that team other than Westbrook and Durant. 

  During the season Thabo had an eFG% of 46% on catch and shoots. Jones, Lamb, Fisher, Butler, Ibaka, Jackson and Perk all had eFG% of 50% or higher in catch and shoots. What you're saying isn't really accurate.

*Ignores this and replies to other things to make it disappear to the depths of Celticsblog forums, never to see the light of day again, thus rendering your facts ineffective.*