Sullinger + Olynk revisited.

[Kuberski33]

I don't see both of these guys on the team longterm. Neither are true centers. They are both pf's.  They'd both benefit by having a big down low defensive presence to counterbalance their games. Personally, I'd keep one of them and trade the other as part of deal to add a legit scorer to this team.

Zero rim protection from either one and its the biggest reason that this teams record was as bad as it was this year.  I expect one of them to get moved eventually because they both suck defensively.  Sully in particular gets abused by anyone bigger than him.  KO is too slow with his rotations and while you can get stronger, you can't get faster.  So both of these guys have limitations.

I like both their offensive games but in some ways they're very similar players. 

[blink]

Olynyk March:  9.6 points, 5.5 rebounds, 20.6 minutes, 52%/46%/83%   
Olynyk April: 13.5 points, 7 rebounds, 23.5 minutes, 53%/44%/77%

It's not just the past two games... Oly has been on fire for a while now. 

What's his long term position?   Presuming Wiggins/Embiid/Parker/Exum are off the board... who would you want to draft that could fit in with those guys... is there anyone we could draft that could theoretically start with both Oly and Sully?  Or are we heading towards an inevitable trade?  Isn't Gordon, Randle and Vonleh all PF as well?

Can Oly play SF?

Now wouldn't that solve all our problems?  Man if he was about 75% quicker on D, maybe?  His height and smarts make up for some of that, but cmon...

I don't see why KO and Sully can't start at PF in different games depending on matchups?  We get a big rim protector 5 who is great at D, and then alternate KO and Sully as needed.  Is that too messed up?  They both get at least 25 min a game, but we adjust based on matchups.

[Celtics18]

Olynyk March:  9.6 points, 5.5 rebounds, 20.6 minutes, 52%/46%/83%   
Olynyk April: 13.5 points, 7 rebounds, 23.5 minutes, 53%/44%/77%

It's not just the past two games... Oly has been on fire for a while now. 

What's his long term position?   Presuming Wiggins/Embiid/Parker/Exum are off the board... who would you want to draft that could fit in with those guys... is there anyone we could draft that could theoretically start with both Oly and Sully?  Or are we heading towards an inevitable trade?  Isn't Gordon, Randle and Vonleh all PF as well?

Can Oly play SF?

Now wouldn't that solve all our problems?  Man if he was about 75% quicker on D, maybe?  His height and smarts make up for some of that, but cmon...

I don't see why KO and Sully can't start at PF in different games depending on matchups?  We get a big rim protector 5 who is great at D, and then alternate KO and Sully as needed.  Is that too messed up?  They both get at least 25 min a game, but we adjust based on matchups.

Yeah, it's too messed up.  If they are both starting caliber power forwards (which I personally believe they are), then one of them needs to go.  I really want to keep Olynyk, and I think that Sully might have some decent trade value. 

I suggested Sully for Timo Mozgov in the trade thread, but everyone said that wasn't enough of a return. 

Let's aim higher, then.  What about Sully for Asik this off-season?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I just don't get how people can be so definite about what Kelly and Sully could do together when one is just about to end his rookie campaign and the other is not far from doing the same. Sure, this season they aren't a match but it doesn't mean with a chance to get some training they can't do it. Sully I think can handle the centers in the league with some work put in this off season. He and Kelly are both smart enough that there is no telling at this point if it can work... all they need to do is be there, they don't HAVE to be shot blockers as long as they can get to where they need to be and Sully uses that body to push the bigs off their spots.

I'm not saying they will be able to do it, I'm just saying that it's not out of the question... it will probably depend more on the guys on the perimeter.

It's not like if we give up Sully/picks for Love, the Kelly/Love tandem will be better... in fact I think Kelly and Sully would work better b/c I would trust Sully to be better on centers than Love (at least when it's all said and done b/c Love has had time to hone his body and Sully has not).

[Celtics18]

I just don't get how people can be so definite about what Kelly and Sully could do together when one is just about to end his rookie campaign and the other is not far from doing the same. Sure, this season they aren't a match but it doesn't mean with a chance to get some training they can't do it. Sully I think can handle the centers in the league with some work put in this off season. He and Kelly are both smart enough that there is no telling at this point if it can work... all they need to do is be there, they don't HAVE to be shot blockers as long as they can get to where they need to be and Sully uses that body to push the bigs off their spots.

I'm not saying they will be able to do it, I'm just saying that it's not out of the question... it will probably depend more on the guys on the perimeter.

It's not like if we give up Sully/picks for Love, the Kelly/Love tandem will be better... in fact I think Kelly and Sully would work better b/c I would trust Sully to be better on centers than Love (at least when it's all said and done b/c Love has had time to hone his body and Sully has not).

I love both those guys, and I love the sentiment, but we do need a shot blocker.  In the worst way.

[blink]

I just don't get how people can be so definite about what Kelly and Sully could do together when one is just about to end his rookie campaign and the other is not far from doing the same. Sure, this season they aren't a match but it doesn't mean with a chance to get some training they can't do it. Sully I think can handle the centers in the league with some work put in this off season. He and Kelly are both smart enough that there is no telling at this point if it can work... all they need to do is be there, they don't HAVE to be shot blockers as long as they can get to where they need to be and Sully uses that body to push the bigs off their spots.

I'm not saying they will be able to do it, I'm just saying that it's not out of the question... it will probably depend more on the guys on the perimeter.

It's not like if we give up Sully/picks for Love, the Kelly/Love tandem will be better... in fact I think Kelly and Sully would work better b/c I would trust Sully to be better on centers than Love (at least when it's all said and done b/c Love has had time to hone his body and Sully has not).

I agree, I don't want Love for mainly that reason. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I just don't get how people can be so definite about what Kelly and Sully could do together when one is just about to end his rookie campaign and the other is not far from doing the same. Sure, this season they aren't a match but it doesn't mean with a chance to get some training they can't do it. Sully I think can handle the centers in the league with some work put in this off season. He and Kelly are both smart enough that there is no telling at this point if it can work... all they need to do is be there, they don't HAVE to be shot blockers as long as they can get to where they need to be and Sully uses that body to push the bigs off their spots.

I'm not saying they will be able to do it, I'm just saying that it's not out of the question... it will probably depend more on the guys on the perimeter.

It's not like if we give up Sully/picks for Love, the Kelly/Love tandem will be better... in fact I think Kelly and Sully would work better b/c I would trust Sully to be better on centers than Love (at least when it's all said and done b/c Love has had time to hone his body and Sully has not).

I love both those guys, and I love the sentiment, but we do need a shot blocker.  In the worst way.

It's not about whether you like them or not really, I'm just questioning whether they can't do it just because they aren't shot blockers doesn't mean they can't defend the paint. Sully isn't afraid to knock a couple teeth out if you're worried about people getting into the paint without fear of their shots being rejected, they may not fear the shot being sent back but give them a shiver like Perk and see won't that do the job.

[Celtics18]

I just don't get how people can be so definite about what Kelly and Sully could do together when one is just about to end his rookie campaign and the other is not far from doing the same. Sure, this season they aren't a match but it doesn't mean with a chance to get some training they can't do it. Sully I think can handle the centers in the league with some work put in this off season. He and Kelly are both smart enough that there is no telling at this point if it can work... all they need to do is be there, they don't HAVE to be shot blockers as long as they can get to where they need to be and Sully uses that body to push the bigs off their spots.

I'm not saying they will be able to do it, I'm just saying that it's not out of the question... it will probably depend more on the guys on the perimeter.

It's not like if we give up Sully/picks for Love, the Kelly/Love tandem will be better... in fact I think Kelly and Sully would work better b/c I would trust Sully to be better on centers than Love (at least when it's all said and done b/c Love has had time to hone his body and Sully has not).

I love both those guys, and I love the sentiment, but we do need a shot blocker.  In the worst way.

It's not about whether you like them or not really, I'm just questioning whether they can't do it just because they aren't shot blockers doesn't mean they can't defend the paint. Sully isn't afraid to knock a couple teeth out if you're worried about people getting into the paint without fear of their shots being rejected, they may not fear the shot being sent back but give them a shiver like Perk and see won't that do the job.

I don't think it will do the job.  Having a guy "who knocks a couple of teeth out," as good as it sounds, isn't really a viable defensive strategy.  To be a good defensive team in the NBA, it's really helpful to have someone who can cover ground in the paint and take away layups at the rim. 

[pokeKingCurtis]

Olynyk March:  9.6 points, 5.5 rebounds, 20.6 minutes, 52%/46%/83%   
Olynyk April: 13.5 points, 7 rebounds, 23.5 minutes, 53%/44%/77%

It's not just the past two games... Oly has been on fire for a while now. 

What's his long term position?   Presuming Wiggins/Embiid/Parker/Exum are off the board... who would you want to draft that could fit in with those guys... is there anyone we could draft that could theoretically start with both Oly and Sully?  Or are we heading towards an inevitable trade?  Isn't Gordon, Randle and Vonleh all PF as well?

Can Oly play SF?

Now wouldn't that solve all our problems?  Man if he was about 75% quicker on D, maybe?  His height and smarts make up for some of that, but cmon...

I don't see why KO and Sully can't start at PF in different games depending on matchups?  We get a big rim protector 5 who is great at D, and then alternate KO and Sully as needed.  Is that too messed up?  They both get at least 25 min a game, but we adjust based on matchups.

They both deserve at least 33+ mins a game, though.

But I agree with Shak. Sully is not a prototypical shot blocker but he can hold down the fort like Big Baby can.

Thus, a defensive center that can play 25-30 minutes a game, imo, would round up the lineup.

[fairweatherfan]

It's neat to be here for the subtle but inevitable shift from the Sully+Olynyk threads to the Sully VS Olynyk threads. 

Really excited at the development shown by both guys but I honestly have a hard time seeing a scenario where they both stay together for more than another year or two.  But it's a good position to be in, it means our trade situation is looking a lot better. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm not comparing them as defensive players, I'm just showing how you don't have to block much to be effective... KG and Perk combined for 2blks per game during the championship season. If Sully and Kelly can do everything else well enough to at least be somewhat of a pest/be in the right spots on defense their offense should make up for their defensive deficiencies. Like the 4 and 5 of the opponents might not be stopped but Kelly and Sully could give them a lot to handle offensively. Like a give and take. Then you aren't even factoring in what the guys on the perimeter are doing. A locked in AB and RR on defense (when healthy) is killer, I'm not sure if Green is the other guy but he does have the ability to be a pretty good defender.

All I know, I want to see them try it next season because it's not like we have been successful at finding bigs to come here when we were contenders season after season, who can we afford that will choose to come here next season or who will we be able to trade for? Even if we pick a guy who we think will be that rim protector doesn't mean it will work out and it doesn't mean Stevens will choose to go with an unproven rookie as a starter over either Sully or Kelly. I know everyone seems to think it's gonna be so easy to find that guy but the past sure tells us that Boston has had trouble finding/obtaining them.

[Celtics18]

I'm not comparing them as defensive players, I'm just showing how you don't have to block much to be effective... KG and Perk combined for 2blks per game during the championship season. If Sully and Kelly can do everything else well enough to at least be somewhat of a pest/be in the right spots on defense their offense should make up for their defensive deficiencies. Like the 4 and 5 of the opponents might not be stopped but Kelly and Sully could give them a lot to handle offensively. Like a give and take. Then you aren't even factoring in what the guys on the perimeter are doing. A locked in AB and RR on defense (when healthy) is killer, I'm not sure if Green is the other guy but he does have the ability to be a pretty good defender.

All I know, I want to see them try it next season because it's not like we have been successful at finding bigs to come here when we were contenders season after season, who can we afford that will choose to come here next season or who will we be able to trade for? Even if we pick a guy who we think will be that rim protector doesn't mean it will work out and it doesn't mean Stevens will choose to go with an unproven rookie as a starter over either Sully or Kelly. I know everyone seems to think it's gonna be so easy to find that guy but the past sure tells us that Boston has had trouble finding/obtaining them.

Well, I had an idea about trading Sully for Noel that I shared in the trade forum.  Something along the same lines with Milwaukee for Sanders seems plausible as well. 

I've also suggested trying to use some assets to go after Timo Mozgov.  I wouldn't mind Dieng or maybe even Jeff Withey.

There still appear to be some options for Asik.  We could even think bigger and find a way to go after Noah or Marc Gasol. 

Gortat?

Or, maybe, best of all, we get a little lucky with the ping pong balls and land Joel Embiid. 

"We may as well keep both Sully and Olynyk because we'll never get a real center" seems like kind of a defeatist attitude.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm not comparing them as defensive players, I'm just showing how you don't have to block much to be effective... KG and Perk combined for 2blks per game during the championship season. If Sully and Kelly can do everything else well enough to at least be somewhat of a pest/be in the right spots on defense their offense should make up for their defensive deficiencies. Like the 4 and 5 of the opponents might not be stopped but Kelly and Sully could give them a lot to handle offensively. Like a give and take. Then you aren't even factoring in what the guys on the perimeter are doing. A locked in AB and RR on defense (when healthy) is killer, I'm not sure if Green is the other guy but he does have the ability to be a pretty good defender.

All I know, I want to see them try it next season because it's not like we have been successful at finding bigs to come here when we were contenders season after season, who can we afford that will choose to come here next season or who will we be able to trade for? Even if we pick a guy who we think will be that rim protector doesn't mean it will work out and it doesn't mean Stevens will choose to go with an unproven rookie as a starter over either Sully or Kelly. I know everyone seems to think it's gonna be so easy to find that guy but the past sure tells us that Boston has had trouble finding/obtaining them.

Well, I had an idea about trading Sully for Noel that I shared in the trade forum.  Something along the same lines with Milwaukee for Sanders seems plausible as well. 

I've also suggested trying to use some assets to go after Timo Mozgov.  I wouldn't mind Dieng or maybe even Jeff Withey.

There still appear to be some options for Asik.  We could even think bigger and find a way to go after Noah or Marc Gasol. 

Gortat?

Or, maybe, best of all, we get a little lucky with the ping pong balls and land Joel Embiid. 

"We may as well keep both Sully and Olynyk because we'll never get a real center" seems like kind of a defeatist attitude.

Yes, like I said in a previous post, it's easier said than done. I know you think it's as easy as putting together parts YOU think can get certain players but you are forgetting all the other things that go into getting it done, the biggest being the other teams owners/gm! I can put an idea together about how to get ANYONE in the league, doesn't mean it's likely to happen or even be what the other team wants or we are willing to give up. If it's as easy as said we would have had some1 all the years we needed them. Sure, we have more assets now but it doesn't mean the other team wants what we are offering.

It's like people think Danny can just get any of those guys whenever he chooses as if he is the only one doing the deal. Yea, rumors say that we could get Asik for this or that but it doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean what was being asked for is worth it to Danny.

I'm not saying we won't find the rim protector of everyone's dreams, I'm just saying it hasn't been easy and it won't all of a sudden get easy just because we need/want it to.

[Celtics18]

I'm not comparing them as defensive players, I'm just showing how you don't have to block much to be effective... KG and Perk combined for 2blks per game during the championship season. If Sully and Kelly can do everything else well enough to at least be somewhat of a pest/be in the right spots on defense their offense should make up for their defensive deficiencies. Like the 4 and 5 of the opponents might not be stopped but Kelly and Sully could give them a lot to handle offensively. Like a give and take. Then you aren't even factoring in what the guys on the perimeter are doing. A locked in AB and RR on defense (when healthy) is killer, I'm not sure if Green is the other guy but he does have the ability to be a pretty good defender.

All I know, I want to see them try it next season because it's not like we have been successful at finding bigs to come here when we were contenders season after season, who can we afford that will choose to come here next season or who will we be able to trade for? Even if we pick a guy who we think will be that rim protector doesn't mean it will work out and it doesn't mean Stevens will choose to go with an unproven rookie as a starter over either Sully or Kelly. I know everyone seems to think it's gonna be so easy to find that guy but the past sure tells us that Boston has had trouble finding/obtaining them.

Well, I had an idea about trading Sully for Noel that I shared in the trade forum.  Something along the same lines with Milwaukee for Sanders seems plausible as well. 

I've also suggested trying to use some assets to go after Timo Mozgov.  I wouldn't mind Dieng or maybe even Jeff Withey.

There still appear to be some options for Asik.  We could even think bigger and find a way to go after Noah or Marc Gasol. 

Gortat?

Or, maybe, best of all, we get a little lucky with the ping pong balls and land Joel Embiid. 

"We may as well keep both Sully and Olynyk because we'll never get a real center" seems like kind of a defeatist attitude.

Yes, like I said in a previous post, it's easier said than done. I know you think it's as easy as putting together parts YOU think can get certain players but you are forgetting all the other things that go into getting it done, the biggest being the other teams owners/gm! I can put an idea together about how to get ANYONE in the league, doesn't mean it's likely to happen or even be what the other team wants or we are willing to give up. If it's as easy as said we would have had some1 all the years we needed them. Sure, we have more assets now but it doesn't mean the other team wants what we are offering.

It's like people think Danny can just get any of those guys whenever he chooses as if he is the only one doing the deal. Yea, rumors say that we could get Asik for this or that but it doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean what was being asked for is worth it to Danny.

I'm not saying we won't find the rim protector of everyone's dreams, I'm just saying it hasn't been easy and it won't all of a sudden get easy just because we need/want it to.

It also doesn't mean that Danny shouldn't explore any and all avenues just because it might not happen. 

Like you said, we've got some assets.  let's try to use them to improve.

[Sixth Man]

If, and when, we have a top squad, we'll need four, or even five, centers/power forwards for a proper rotation.  There is no reason why both Sully and Oly cannot be a part of that.  That being said, I wouldn't draft too many more 4/5's who are unathletic and defensively-challenged (no love for Love, then...).  And Embiid, or even a Vonleh, would be a wonderful complement to what we already have.

I also cringe at the idea of trading Sully for a Mozgov, or a Noel.  If the ping-pong ball draw is cruel, maybe we should consider drafting Nurkic and developing him...