A Rondo poll

[Celtics18]

A poll.

[droopdog7]

Rondo will be better.  But the question is, how good is he anyway.  Obviously this has been a hot topic for debate since rondo came into the league but frankly, I think it is fairly obvious.  Rondo is no star.  He is a good player overall but needs to be no higher than third best player on good team.  Unfortunately for him, that is difficult because he is so ball dominate.  DA has known all along, which explains why he's always tried to trade him when value was high.  Of course, other teams would not bite.

[D.o.s.]

I think there's a pretty big jump from "what we see is what we're going to get" to "he's toast".


I think we've seen about 90% of what Rondo is going to be from now on. I certainly don't think he's toast.

[Celtics18]

Rondo will be better. But the question is, how good is he anyway.  Obviously this has been a hot topic for debate since rondo came into the league but frankly, I think it is fairly obvious.  Rondo is no star.  He is a good player overall but needs to be no higher than third best player on good team.  Unfortunately for him, that is difficult because he is so ball dominate.  DA has known all along, which explains why he's always tried to trade him when value was high.  Of course, other teams would not bite.

I wasn't talking about being a superstar or anything like that.  Just a player who is/has:

An All Star
Third Team All NBA
Second Team All Defense
Eighth in MVP voting
Twelfth in the annual ESPN Player Ranking
A legitimate argument for being the best player on a team that reached a seventh game of the ECF
A legitimate argument for being one of the five best players in the entire playoffs for that post-season

Do you think he could be that kind of player next year?

I'd definitely take that.  Warts and all. 

[LarBrd33]

Has he been noticeably different this season aside from his inability to score inside?  Are we sure that isn't just lack of quality teammates drawing attention and a polished veteran system tailoring to his strengths?   I thought he had a pretty solid season.   His per-36 numbers are basically what they have always been.  There's basically no statistical difference.  He's been the same player since 2009.  I've actually been surprised at how solid he's been.  Aside from playing with inferior talent and slightly less minutes, he's been the same ol Rondo.

Why do you assume he will be dramatically better next year?  Better teammates?  You think his game will really improve that much when he's playing with Dwight Howard and James Harden?  I dunno... I think he is what he is.

[droopdog7]

Rondo will be better. But the question is, how good is he anyway.  Obviously this has been a hot topic for debate since rondo came into the league but frankly, I think it is fairly obvious.  Rondo is no star.  He is a good player overall but needs to be no higher than third best player on good team.  Unfortunately for him, that is difficult because he is so ball dominate.  DA has known all along, which explains why he's always tried to trade him when value was high.  Of course, other teams would not bite.

I wasn't talking about being a superstar or anything like that.  Just a player who is/has:

An All Star
Third Team All NBA
Second Team All Defense
Eighth in MVP voting
Twelfth in the annual ESPN Player Ranking
A legitimate argument for being the best player on a team that reached a seventh game of the ECF
A legitimate argument for being one of the five best players in the entire playoffs for that post-season

Do you think he could be that kind of player next year?

I'd definitely take that.  Warts and all.

I know he's been in those categories before but honestly, I don't think he was ever really that good.  Just a product of being on a good team and good situation.  That is the difference between being  a star and not.  Stars make most situations around them better by just being, a star.  Non stars need to be in the right situation.  Rondo on a mediocre team is mediocre.

[Donoghus]

I answered "somewhere in between". I think he'll be better next season after more recovery this summer and a full training camp in the fall.

2012 level, though? I don't know.  He had an ACL injury and he's a PG.  I'm not sure if he'll ever be the same after that.

I wouldn't take much out of Rondo this season, though. 

[LarBrd33]

again... how do you feel his play this year is worse than any other year?  statistically he's been the exact same player since 2009.  What's different?... he's not getting 43 minutes?

[Celtics18]

again... how do you feel his play this year is worse than any other year?  statistically he's been the exact same player since 2009.  What's different?... he's not getting 43 minutes?

His numbers as far as points, rebounds, and assists are about the same, but he's been considerably less efficient both in points per shot attempt and in assists to turnover ratio. 

I'm optimistic that he can get those latter numbers back to his normal rates, and that Danny can build a team--and that Brad can coach it--that can be successful with Rondo as the point guard by next season.

[BballTim]

Rondo will be better. But the question is, how good is he anyway.  Obviously this has been a hot topic for debate since rondo came into the league but frankly, I think it is fairly obvious.  Rondo is no star.  He is a good player overall but needs to be no higher than third best player on good team.  Unfortunately for him, that is difficult because he is so ball dominate.  DA has known all along, which explains why he's always tried to trade him when value was high.  Of course, other teams would not bite.

I wasn't talking about being a superstar or anything like that.  Just a player who is/has:

An All Star
Third Team All NBA
Second Team All Defense
Eighth in MVP voting
Twelfth in the annual ESPN Player Ranking
A legitimate argument for being the best player on a team that reached a seventh game of the ECF
A legitimate argument for being one of the five best players in the entire playoffs for that post-season

Do you think he could be that kind of player next year?

I'd definitely take that.  Warts and all.

I know he's been in those categories before but honestly, I don't think he was ever really that good.  Just a product of being on a good team and good situation.  That is the difference between being  a star and not.  Stars make most situations around them better by just being, a star.  Non stars need to be in the right situation.  Rondo on a mediocre team is mediocre.

  I'd say that's partly right, partly wrong. While I think Rondo's scoring has been somewhat hampered by his injury I'd agree that there are plenty of better scorers in the league than him and that top level scorers can have more of an impact on a poor offensive team than someone like Rondo. But if you give him some halfway decent weapons to work with he's very dangerous and one of the better players in the league. If you're trying to wring a few more wins out of a team where Jeff Green is your best other offensive player then Rondo probably isn't your guy. If you have some better offensive players, even if they aren't dominant offensively (and, let's be honest, that's what he's been surrounded with for the previous 2-3 seasons) then he can take the team as far as all but the very top few players in  the league.

[sunnyd656]

I know he's been in those categories before but honestly, I don't think he was ever really that good.  Just a product of being on a good team and good situation.  That is the difference between being  a star and not.  Stars make most situations around them better by just being, a star.  Non stars need to be in the right situation.  Rondo on a mediocre team is mediocre.

Like those 8 years where Pierce was on our team, where we missed the playoffs 4 times, and with 2 1'st round exits?

Or all those years KG was unstoppable in Minny, but couldn't get anywhere?

[PhoSita]

In between.

[LarBrd33]

again... how do you feel his play this year is worse than any other year?  statistically he's been the exact same player since 2009.  What's different?... he's not getting 43 minutes?

His numbers as far as points, rebounds, and assists are about the same, but he's been considerably less efficient both in points per shot attempt and in assists to turnover ratio. 

I'm optimistic that he can get those latter numbers back to his normal rates, and that Danny can build a team--and that Brad can coach it--that can be successful with Rondo as the point guard by next season.

And you're telling me this isn't just lack of quality talent surrounding him?  Doesn't that happen when you go from veteran team, veteran coach, 3 star teammates... to 22 year old scrubs and a rookie coach?

How could you think his efficiency and assist/turnover ratio were NOT going to take a hit after the big 3 and Doc left?    I mean... it was pretty obvious it was going to happen.  How much of that really has to do with Rondo? 

If the quality of the team's talent stayed the same next season... you really think he'd magically become more efficient?

[Celtics18]

again... how do you feel his play this year is worse than any other year?  statistically he's been the exact same player since 2009.  What's different?... he's not getting 43 minutes?

His numbers as far as points, rebounds, and assists are about the same, but he's been considerably less efficient both in points per shot attempt and in assists to turnover ratio. 

I'm optimistic that he can get those latter numbers back to his normal rates, and that Danny can build a team--and that Brad can coach it--that can be successful with Rondo as the point guard by next season.

And your telling me this isn't just lack of quality talent surrounding him?  Doesn't that happen when you go from veteran team, veteran coach, 3 star teammates... to 22 year old scrubs and a rookie coach?

How could you think his efficiency and assist/turnover ratio were NOT going to take a hit after the big 3 and Doc left?    I mean... it was pretty obvious it was going to happen.  How much of that really has to do with Rondo? 

If the quality of the team's talent stayed the same next season... you really think he'd magically become more efficient?

I think his lack of efficiency is due to multiple factors.  The talent level being lowered is surely one of them.  I also think that his lay off from basketball and his recovery to full health is another.  I think adjusting to Coach Stevens and a bunch of new guys is another factor.

We'll see, I guess.  You might be right, after all, that Rondo's best days are behind him.  It's still way too early for me to accept that theory as a fact, though.  He'll be twenty-eight years old next season.  If his knee is fully healed, he has a strong off-season, and Danny gets him a little more help, we might see All Star Rondo again for the 2014-2015 season. 

[LarBrd33]

again... how do you feel his play this year is worse than any other year?  statistically he's been the exact same player since 2009.  What's different?... he's not getting 43 minutes?

His numbers as far as points, rebounds, and assists are about the same, but he's been considerably less efficient both in points per shot attempt and in assists to turnover ratio. 

I'm optimistic that he can get those latter numbers back to his normal rates, and that Danny can build a team--and that Brad can coach it--that can be successful with Rondo as the point guard by next season.

And your telling me this isn't just lack of quality talent surrounding him?  Doesn't that happen when you go from veteran team, veteran coach, 3 star teammates... to 22 year old scrubs and a rookie coach?

How could you think his efficiency and assist/turnover ratio were NOT going to take a hit after the big 3 and Doc left?    I mean... it was pretty obvious it was going to happen.  How much of that really has to do with Rondo? 

If the quality of the team's talent stayed the same next season... you really think he'd magically become more efficient?

I think his lack of efficiency is due to multiple factors.  The talent level being lowered is surely one of them.  I also think that his lay off from basketball and his recovery to full health is another.  I think adjusting to Coach Stevens and a bunch of new guys is another factor.

We'll see, I guess.  You might be right, after all, that Rondo's best days are behind him.  It's still way too early for me to accept that theory as a fact, though.  He'll be twenty-eight years old next season.  If his knee is fully healed, he has a strong off-season, and Danny gets him a little more help, we might see All Star Rondo again for the 2014-2015 season.

I've been impressed with how little he's slipped.  Again... statistically, he's basically exactly the same as he's been since 2009.  Still getting his assists.  Still getting rebounds.  Still a sub-par offensive player/terrible shooter.   His assist/turnover ratio isn't dramatically different.  His overall FG% is low (41%), but that was kind of expected.  He went from sharing the court with 2-3 basketball icons drawing attention from defenders.  Now he's the main focus of defenses.  It was obviously going to drop.   

Perhaps you're right that he can get his FG% up a bit next season.   But I mean... remember how Paul Pierce shot 40% before he had Ray/KG.  Bron's wasn't as efficient until he joined with Wade/Bosh.   It's really not a surprise that Rondo is less efficient without help.   I think he's more or less the same player as he's always been.  Just different teammates.

Question is... what happens if Stevens (or his new team) ask him to adapt his game even more.  Can Rondo flourish without the ball in his hands a league-leading percentage of time?  I wouldn't bet on Rondo getting significantly better next season.   I don't see how that's possible unless 3 more hall-of-famers walk through that door.  Even then, at most he'll just see his FG% rise a little.  Everything else is maxed out already.