RealGM Radio: Jared Weiss, Andrew Perna Discuss Celtics
http://basketball.realgm.com/podcasts/RealGM-Radio-Full-Episode-140403b.mp3

Summary (in no particular order):

2014 draft
- picking one of the top projected three (wiggins ,embiid, parker) would really help the current team
- outside of the three, players like gordon (lack of offense), randle (bc of sulliner, olynyk) would not really help with the current team issues.
- Exum can help. If he gets stronger possibly play sf? Also bc he plays SG/PG dont need to resign AB or no urgency
- With our 2nd pick Celts names like Anderson, Mcdermott was brought up. Mcdermott is projected to go in the late lotto but likely will fall. He would be a player Danny would like and can provide scoring help

2013 draft revisit
- Celts missed out on Giannis. Younger and higher upside than KO.  Sullinger, Giannis, Rondo would of been a good looking future nucleus
- Plumlee and Dieng also possible misses. Rim Protection was and is needed. Both rookies are doing great, especially Dieng as of late
- KO still potential to be a double double guy (A Ryan Anderson but without the deadly shot). But low ceiling

Sullinger
- Excellent production for a guy who makes 1.5 million. One of the untouchables going fwd unless you can get a Kevin Love. No pt of trading him to get a comparable return
- Back problem also could still be a concern for some GM's

AB
- has not improved to expectations
- injury prone
- still at 6 million a year would be considered good to keep and at worse can be used as trade bait (nene effect)

Rondo
- considered the only star left on the team. 
- trading him would set the team back
- the team really needs to add another player able to handle the ball . Going back to the 2014 draft topic, someone like a Kyle Anderson would help with this issue. Jeff green is not an advanced ball handler outside of straight line drives. Poor pnr player

Contention
- at this rate/including good draft pickups, earliest can contend in 2017, maybe 2016.
- Heat won't be dominant in two/three years. Dwade already constantly injured
- The Jury is still out on the Pacers, who in the beginning of the year looked like the next young dominant team out of the east.
- No other team from the east shows dominating potential

My Comment:

1.  Don't agree with these guys about Gordon and Randle. Yes they would overlap many things Sullinger and KO can do/will do, but you don't draft based on needs.  Both are really young and also fill in needs the team has 1. Defense, Lack of Athleticism (Gordon) 2. Low Post scoring, Aggression (Randle).  Exum would also be a fine pick, to take over the SG spot and be an insurance if Rondo leaves. He has stated he prefers to be a pg in the NBA. Suggesting he could play SF in the nba is crazy and will never happen

2. I'm not upset Danny skipped on Giannis.  He skipped on him bc we already had Jeff Green and Giannis is not a very good shooter. The different tools/skills make him look like a future star, but he is still ways away from putting it together.  Still young, but its mainly about upside right now. They do have a case regarding Plumlee and Dieng. I actually had them pegged for Danny to draft. Either of them would of worked better with Sullinger , and also would of provided length/above rim play we are dying without right now.  I think Danny thought Faverani would do just as good as these guys and KO with his unique skillset would be too good to pass up. While KO has been ok, Faverani so far has been a bust

3. Sullinger is definitely one of the steals of the 2012 draft. He could easily be paid 5-7 million a year right now, for the production he provides. However i wouldn't call him an untouchable moving fwd.  If the team could get a legit center for Sully, i would consider making that trade. Heck even for Plumlee, Dieng, i would think about it.  He is still a nice young pf that should be better with a better body next season. But at best a 3rd/4th scoring option

4.  Definitely good idea to sign AB for 6 million a year (even if we draft exum) and at worse trade him later. He is young still and hopefully gets over the injury bug. Even if he misses a major part of the year but comesback for the playoffs (like wade), would be a nice player to have on the team.

5.  Not a big fan of Rondo since the beginning of last season.  Can't agree the team would move backwards without him.  The only way Rondo helps this team is, if you stack it with high calibre players.  He has been programmed how to execute set plays with the big three on the team. Imo unless you get near identical players like the Big Three (and a coach like Rivers motivating him constantly), he is not nearly that good of a player.  Giving him freedom/lack of accountability = losses for the team in the regular season

6. If Rondo is the guy you build around, i do agree that one or two more high calibre ball handlers are required.  Someone that can give Rondo a break (though i wouldn't bank on Rondo giving up the ball easily) and a rim protector.  Jeff Green is a decent player and has played better without Rondo. So again if Rondo is the guy you build around, Green has to go. The experiment has failed.  Kyle Anderson would be an excellent pickup. Mcdermott would be a favorite target for Rondo to pass to.  Danny imo will pickup one of these kind of players instead of a project like Capela (which could be a mistake). The need to be relevant soon, bc of Rondo's contract situation and to attract 2015 FAs is big.

Overall it was a nice listen.  Never thought about 2017 and how the east conf might look then. I pray it won't take until 2017 until we make the playoffs

thoughts?

Sound like a bunch of Lakers morons to me.  Meh .....same old hogwash

Re: KO vs. Dieng / Plumlee, I think it's too soon to say.

Dieng has looked nice in a very small sample for Minnesota, but he has injury concerns (knee) and he's already 24 years old.  Not sure how much upside there is there.  To me he's a Nazr Mohammed type (capable backup with no standout skills; fill-in starter).  Kelly may be more than that.

Plumlee is a high-energy big with an above-the-rim game.  It's hard to project how those players will fare with increased roles.  He's been good for Brooklyn in short minutes this season.  Like his brother, he may turn to be solid in a starter role.  Or, he may be remain an energy big.  Either way, like Dieng he's older and more of a finished product, I think, than Kelly.

I don't necessarily like the Ryan Anderson comparison with Kelly.  I think that undersells Kelly's passing ability and overall IQ.  I think his game is rather different.  I'd instead point to a player like Luis Scola, or maybe Spencer Hawes.  Kelly doesn't have the same inside-scoring potential, but he has a better outside shot.  The in-between game is where the biggest gap in the comparison lies.  In any case, I see Kelly's upside as sixth man material at the 4/5 spot, or an offensive-minded plugin as a starter, if necessary.


I agree that Sullinger has been a steal, and outside of using him as a piece in a larger package for Kevin Love, I can't imagine DA trading him.  Just too hard to get back equal return when the player is still on a rookie contract, and therefore a major bargain.


I continue to feel that Avery Bradley @ 6 million is a waste when you can get players with comparable impact for half that.

Quote from: triboy16f on April 07, 2014, 09:33:09 PM

which player(s) can you get for 6 million a year that would be better than AB at the sg position??

Players making less than $6 million who I think are more versatile / reliable / durable than Bradley:

Gerald Green -- $3.5 million
Danny Green -- $3.7 million
Marco Belinelli -- $2.75 million
Vince Carter -- $3.2 million
Thabo Sefolosha -- $3.9 million

Comparable value but makes significantly less:

Randy Foye -- $3 million

Slightly above $6.5 but way more valuable:

Kevin Martin -- $6.5 million
Wesley Matthews -- $6.7 million

Quote from: triboy16f on April 07, 2014, 03:35:29 PM

RealGM Radio: Jared Weiss, Andrew Perna Discuss Celtics
http://basketball.realgm.com/podcasts/RealGM-Radio-Full-Episode-140403b.mp3

Summary (in no particular order):

2014 draft
- picking one of the top projected three (wiggins ,embiid, parker) would really help the current team
- outside of the three, players like gordon (lack of offense), randle (bc of sulliner, olynyk) would not really help with the current team issues.
- Exum can help. If he gets stronger possibly play sf? Also bc he plays SG/PG dont need to resign AB or no urgency
- With our 2nd pick Celts names like Anderson, Mcdermott was brought up. Mcdermott is projected to go in the late lotto but likely will fall. He would be a player Danny would like and can provide scoring help

2013 draft revisit
- Celts missed out on Giannis. Younger and higher upside than KO.  Sullinger, Giannis, Rondo would of been a good looking future nucleus
- Plumlee and Dieng also possible misses. Rim Protection was and is needed. Both rookies are doing great, especially Dieng as of late
- KO still potential to be a double double guy (A Ryan Anderson but without the deadly shot). But low ceiling

Sullinger
- Excellent production for a guy who makes 1.5 million. One of the untouchables going fwd unless you can get a Kevin Love. No pt of trading him to get a comparable return
- Back problem also could still be a concern for some GM's

AB
- has not improved to expectations
- injury prone
- still at 6 million a year would be considered good to keep and at worse can be used as trade bait (nene effect)

Rondo
- considered the only star left on the team. 
- trading him would set the team back
- the team really needs to add another player able to handle the ball . Going back to the 2014 draft topic, someone like a Kyle Anderson would help with this issue. Jeff green is not an advanced ball handler outside of straight line drives. Poor pnr player

Contention
- at this rate/including good draft pickups, earliest can contend in 2017, maybe 2016.
- Heat won't be dominant in two/three years. Dwade already constantly injured
- The Jury is still out on the Pacers, who in the beginning of the year looked like the next young dominant team out of the east.
- No other team from the east shows dominating potential

My Comment:

1.  Don't agree with these guys about Gordon and Randle. Yes they would overlap many things Sullinger and KO can do/will do, but you don't draft based on needs.  Both are really young and also fill in needs the team has 1. Defense, Lack of Athleticism (Gordon) 2. Low Post scoring, Aggression (Randle).  Exum would also be a fine pick, to take over the SG spot and be an insurance if Rondo leaves. He has stated he prefers to be a pg in the NBA. Suggesting he could play SF in the nba is crazy and will never happen

2. I'm not upset Danny skipped on Giannis.  He skipped on him bc we already had Jeff Green and Giannis is not a very good shooter. The different tools/skills make him look like a future star, but he is still ways away from putting it together.  Still young, but its mainly about upside right now. They do have a case regarding Plumlee and Dieng. I actually had them pegged for Danny to draft. Either of them would of worked better with Sullinger , and also would of provided length/above rim play we are dying without right now.  I think Danny thought Faverani would do just as good as these guys and KO with his unique skillset would be too good to pass up. While KO has been ok, Faverani so far has been a bust

3. Sullinger is definitely one of the steals of the 2012 draft. He could easily be paid 5-7 million a year right now, for the production he provides. However i wouldn't call him an untouchable moving fwd.  If the team could get a legit center for Sully, i would consider making that trade. Heck even for Plumlee, Dieng, i would think about it.  He is still a nice young pf that should be better with a better body next season. But at best a 3rd/4th scoring option

4.  Definitely good idea to sign AB for 6 million a year (even if we draft exum) and at worse trade him later. He is young still and hopefully gets over the injury bug. Even if he misses a major part of the year but comesback for the playoffs (like wade), would be a nice player to have on the team.

5.  Not a big fan of Rondo since the beginning of last season.  Can't agree the team would move backwards without him.  The only way Rondo helps this team is, if you stack it with high calibre players.  He has been programmed how to execute set plays with the big three on the team. Imo unless you get near identical players like the Big Three (and a coach like Rivers motivating him constantly), he is not nearly that good of a player.  Giving him freedom/lack of accountability = losses for the team in the regular season

6. If Rondo is the guy you build around, i do agree that one or two more high calibre ball handlers are required.  Someone that can give Rondo a break (though i wouldn't bank on Rondo giving up the ball easily) and a rim protector.  Jeff Green is a decent player and has played better without Rondo. So again if Rondo is the guy you build around, Green has to go. The experiment has failed.  Kyle Anderson would be an excellent pickup. Mcdermott would be a favorite target for Rondo to pass to.  Danny imo will pickup one of these kind of players instead of a project like Capela (which could be a mistake). The need to be relevant soon, bc of Rondo's contract situation and to attract 2015 FAs is big.

Overall it was a nice listen.  Never thought about 2017 and how the east conf might look then. I pray it won't take until 2017 until we make the playoffs

thoughts?

I definitely agree with you on number 1 of what you said. Right now, if I am the Celtics, I am drafting either Marcus Smart of Julius Randle. I don't view Olynyk and to a lesser extent Sullinger as a long-term fixture at the power forward position by any means.

It's not like there isn't room for improvement.

Besides, chances are Wiggins/Exum/Parker/Embiid (if they are even in the draft) will fall to Phily, Milwaukee and Orlando.

If I am Danny Ainge, I am already thinking Randle or Smart.

Randle looks more athletic than Sullinger and Smart could be the team's future 2 guard.

You'll have to help me out on Exum, as admittedly I don't know much about him.

And let's hope the RealGM guys were wrong about the Celts not being competitive again til 2016/17.

Quote from: Rondo9 on April 07, 2014, 10:21:31 PM

Quote from: PhoSita on April 07, 2014, 10:11:13 PM

Quote from: triboy16f on April 07, 2014, 09:33:09 PM

which player(s) can you get for 6 million a year that would be better than AB at the sg position??

Players making less than $6 million who I think are more versatile / reliable / durable than Bradley:

Gerald Green -- $3.5 million
Danny Green -- $3.7 million
Marco Belinelli -- $2.75 million
Vince Carter -- $3.2 million
Thabo Sefolosha -- $3.9 million
Mike Dunleavy -- $3.2 million
Jodie Meeks -- $1.5 million


Comparable or slightly less value but makes significantly less:

Randy Foye -- $3 million
Kirk Hinrich -- $4 million
Anthony Morrow -- $1 million

Slightly above $6.5 but way more valuable:

Kevin Martin -- $6.5 million
Wesley Matthews -- $6.7 million
Kyle Korver -- $6.7 million

In my view, the league abounds with nice-but-not-great shooting guards and combo wings who can spread the floor, defend a little, rebound a little, and handle the ball a little.  Many of them can spread the floor really, really well.  There's just no reason to go as high as $6 million a year to keep Avery Bradley, and certainly not above that. 

He's very replaceable.  You don't shell out north of $5 million a year for replaceable players.

Kevin Martin is just as injury prone as Bradley and Korver can't play defense, I'd rank Bradley way higher than Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, Marco Belinelli Randy Foye.

not me. I rank Meeks and Belinelli higher than AB. Meeks is just as athletic as AB, good defender and has much more to offer offensively.  He is close to exploding soon to be a good player in this league. Belinelli is a high iq, deadly and clutch 3 pt shooter.  Has nice size for a SG and not a liability on the defensive end.

Quote from: triboy16f on April 07, 2014, 10:30:27 PM

Quote from: Rondo9 on April 07, 2014, 10:21:31 PM

Kevin Martin is just as injury prone as Bradley and Korver can't play defense, I'd rank Bradley way higher than Anthony Morrow, Jodie Meeks, Marco Belinelli Randy Foye.

not me. I rank Meeks and Belinelli higher than AB. Meeks is just as athletic as AB, good defender and has much more to offer offensively.  He is close to exploding soon to be a good player in this league. Belinelli is a high iq, deadly and clutch 3 pt shooter.  Has nice size for a SG and not a liability on the defensive end.

I value floor spacing very highly at the SG position.  Also, if my SG is going to be just a hair bigger than your average point guard, I like him to be able to handle the ball fairly well.

Avery's defense is fine and all, but his size really limits him on that end, and his offensive game is too heavily skewed towards mid range jumpers.  He's not an above average shooter for his position, and he can't create his own shot aside from one dribble pull-ups from just inside the arc (which is a very low percentage shot).