Stevens and Ainge are finally getting it

[the_Bird]

WWBD: What would Belichick do? 

Putting myself in his head.  In basketball, you need multiple superstars.  At least 3/5  has been the rule for the past few years.  We already have one in Rondo.  You also have a potential allstar in Sully.   BB would drop down as low as possible, and obtain the best draft position as possible.  With Rondo/Sully/Parker or Wiggins, you have your three all stars.  You also have a lock down defender in Bradley.  And then you can trade for a defensive center with the pics.

He hasnt locked down anyone this year IMHO. I say let him go.

Bradley's transition from lockdown defender to 'look at me i can shoot' mediocre chucker has made me lose respect for him. He needs to just focus on D and make some nice cuts without the ball. Works well for Tony Allen.

Part of this is what Bradley has been coached to do this year.  Stevens' asked Bradley to dial it back a bit on defense, and he was asked to be more aggressive offensively.

Is that good coaching?  Ask a guy to do less of what he's exceptional at, and more of what he's fairly mediocre doing? 

[LarBrd33]

Stevens' asked Bradley to dial it back a bit on defense, and he was asked to be more aggressive offensively.

Usually the great defenders like to defend out of pride.   I would think it would he hard to turn off the switch even when a coach tells them to do so.

Either way he is not the defender he was and it may be due to increased offensive burden.   But he is not exactly General Patton on offense either.

We saw basically the same thing with Marcus Banks when he was a rookie.  He'd pressure the ball with 1000% effort.  Everyone called him an "elite defender".  You can't sustain that.  It was inevitable that Bradley would stop his gimmicky defense and conserve some energy for offense.  He's still a pretty good defender, though.  His problem is that he's too small for his position.  I stick by the belief his future is as a backup combo guard.

[mmmmm]

It's about time.  Just swallow your pride everyone. You were great all season. No one can doubt your allegiance.  You stayed true all year.  You didn't root for tanking. Congratulations.

Back to the real world... We are just this close to a number 4 lottery position. Our team is very talented with a great coach and some real assets.

Would you like Wiggins?  Or embid?  You don't have to feel bad about being excited about those players.  You're still a Celtics fan.  And if you can't handle showing others that excitement, just quietly watch and smile, and knew that our team could be really good for a very long time.

  Hopefully the team will be really good for a very long time, although the thought that a top 4-5 draft pick somehow insures that is hopelessly naive.

Despite what West and Ainge have said this draft is worth tanking for. You have 4 legit superstar potential players and a few all stars at the top of the draft. Best overall crop since 2003. Complete the tank! Get the next superstar in here asap.

  It's not just what Danny's said. Most of the people who were proclaiming that this was a superstar-laden draft have been distancing themselves from those claims.

If that was the case then how come the Sixers Lakers Bucks and even the Celtics are putting on the biggest tank show since 2007? All smoke and mirrors. This class is 100% the real deal especially if Parker comes out.

There are no more crappy teams this year than in just about any year since the weighted lottery came into existence.   There are 8 teams projecting to under 30 wins (and really, Detroit just barely slips into that category).  There were 8 such teams last year in a 'crappy' draft.

If getting great odds in this year's lottery were really so enticing to GMs, you'd think that a few more teams than normal would be vying for it.

[LooseCannon]

WWBD: What would Belichick do? 

Putting myself in his head.  In basketball, you need multiple superstars.  At least 3/5  has been the rule for the past few years.  We already have one in Rondo.  You also have a potential allstar in Sully.   BB would drop down as low as possible, and obtain the best draft position as possible.  With Rondo/Sully/Parker or Wiggins, you have your three all stars.  You also have a lock down defender in Bradley.  And then you can trade for a defensive center with the pics.

He hasnt locked down anyone this year IMHO. I say let him go.

Bradley's transition from lockdown defender to 'look at me i can shoot' mediocre chucker has made me lose respect for him. He needs to just focus on D and make some nice cuts without the ball. Works well for Tony Allen.

Part of this is what Bradley has been coached to do this year.  Stevens' asked Bradley to dial it back a bit on defense, and he was asked to be more aggressive offensively.

Is that good coaching?  Ask a guy to do less of what he's exceptional at, and more of what he's fairly mediocre doing?

It's asking a guy to work on the things that he has the potential to improve upon so that he becomes a better, more well-rounded player.  It's no different than asking a scorer who is a mediocre defender with the physical tools to be a good defender to maybe not be so single-minded about offense and try to work on being a better defender.

[LooseCannon]

I stick by the belief his future is as a backup combo guard.

I stick by the belief that he will never be a good enough point guard to be a combo guard.

[Rondo9]

WWBD: What would Belichick do? 

Putting myself in his head.  In basketball, you need multiple superstars.  At least 3/5  has been the rule for the past few years.  We already have one in Rondo.  You also have a potential allstar in Sully.   BB would drop down as low as possible, and obtain the best draft position as possible.  With Rondo/Sully/Parker or Wiggins, you have your three all stars.  You also have a lock down defender in Bradley.  And then you can trade for a defensive center with the pics.

He hasnt locked down anyone this year IMHO. I say let him go.

Bradley's transition from lockdown defender to 'look at me i can shoot' mediocre chucker has made me lose respect for him. He needs to just focus on D and make some nice cuts without the ball. Works well for Tony Allen.

Part of this is what Bradley has been coached to do this year.  Stevens' asked Bradley to dial it back a bit on defense, and he was asked to be more aggressive offensively.

Is that good coaching?  Ask a guy to do less of what he's exceptional at, and more of what he's fairly mediocre doing?

Considering that they need people to shoot the ball and the fact it's rebuild/tank/development year. It' not surprising that Stevens is experimenting with players in order to figure out what they're good at and what they need to improve.

[Rondo9]

Stevens' asked Bradley to dial it back a bit on defense, and he was asked to be more aggressive offensively.

Usually the great defenders like to defend out of pride.   I would think it would he hard to turn off the switch even when a coach tells them to do so.

Either way he is not the defender he was and it may be due to increased offensive burden.   But he is not exactly General Patton on offense either.

We saw basically the same thing with Marcus Banks when he was a rookie.  He'd pressure the ball with 1000% effort.  Everyone called him an "elite defender".  You can't sustain that.  It was inevitable that Bradley would stop his gimmicky defense and conserve some energy for offense.  He's still a pretty good defender, though.  His problem is that he's too small for his position.  I stick by the belief his future is as a backup combo guard.

Or starter depending on how much more he improves his offense.

[LarBrd33]

I stick by the belief his future is as a backup combo guard.

I stick by the belief that he will never be a good enough point guard to be a combo guard.

He'll be good enough to come off the bench and defend opposing point guards.  Stick him on a team like OKC, NY or Miami where the ball flows through a star... he just has to play hard D and knock down shots.

[D.o.s.]

I stick by the belief his future is as a backup combo guard.

I stick by the belief that he will never be a good enough point guard to be a combo guard.

He'll be good enough to come off the bench and defend opposing point guards.  Stick him on a team like OKC, NY or Miami where the ball flows through a star... he just has to play hard D and knock down shots.

I think he'd be a great fit on the Knicks if they do end up running the triangle.

[mmmmm]

as a fan of the team, and a fan of Rondo, Sullinger, Olynyk, Stevens, Green, Bass, etc. as individuals, I would be ecstatic if we land a top 3 pick, and winning any of the last 5 games would bring no joy whatsoever, so I cannot understand why anyone is rooting for a win right now. It changes nothing for the current players, and only hurts the team long term. I honestly believe most of them have checked out mentally weeks ago. Does anyone believe Green, Rondo, Olynyk or anyone is really invested as an individual to win any of these remaining games?

I have played on some very bad sports teams, and some very good ones, and in between, and unless we were in a playoff hunt, we all pretty much reverted to individual performance and the next season as our main concerns in the last few games. Its human nature.

I'm not asking for understanding.  It's becoming apparent that some simply will never understand my stance on the point of athletic competition being to try to win all the games you play, even when the odds are stacked against you.

I'm also not trying to change anyone else's minds about the 2013-2014 Celtics at this point.  But, I'm going to keep rooting for wins at the very real risk of many of you not understanding why.

This makes no sense though. The odds are not stacked against them at this stage in the season, the season is over, mathematically they cannot make the playoffs.

It's like saying if your down by 25 with 6 minutes left in the 4th quarter you should run your starters into the ground to finish out the game and they should dive for every lose ball and play it out as if their career depends on it. It is totally counter productive. A smart coach, GM, or player knows when it's best to pack it in and live to fight another day.

I don't think what you are suggesting makes any sense from a player's perspective.

It doesn't benefit a player who is without a guaranteed contract for next year one bit if the team gets a better draft pick.   In fact, a better drafted player is just potentially a competitor for his job next year.

Last I checked we had a ton of players who do not have jobs guaranteed for next season and have every reason to continue to play hard, if for no other reason than that.

And even for the ones that DO have guaranteed contracts next year, a better draft pick at their position could result in being traded (and contrary to popular belief, most players hate having to move across the country all of a sudden).

Players literally have no incentive to 'tank' and a lot of reasons to play as hard and as well as they are capable.

I think you are seriously off the mark in your assessment of what player attitudes might be towards competition.   But we can agree to disagree.

[Neurotic Guy]

I may be missing the point, but it sounds like no one is suggesting that the players on the court do anything less than give it their all (the exception being diving for loose balls with 40 seconds left in a blowout).  I think they will, they should, and frankly, any player who doesn't should have some doubt surrounding their future with this team.

That said, I think many of us, including me, would be very happy if fewer of our best players were on the court for significant amounts of time for the remaining games.  Also, any of our better players who would benefit from nights off, or packing it in for the rest of the season -- I am all for it.   I hate (as do most of us I think) rooting for losses -- but nonetheless, this is what I am doing.  Of course, since I am painfully aware that my rooting at home has no impact on the result of the game, I hope that Danny and Brad are doing all they can to put players on the court who will try their hearts out but come up short --  for just 5 more games.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

    1. We jump to the #1 spot.
    2. Wiggins in the next Jordan
    3. Sully comes back like a beast, ripped next season
    4. We trade for Asik
    5. Pierce resigns at the vet min
    6. We draft Tyler Ennis with the 18th


7. We would make the playoffs every year and get beat by the HEAT.

Holy fantasy island, Batman....

I'm an optimist... 

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

I just want the season to end.

[mmmmm]

I may be missing the point, but it sounds like no one is suggesting that the players on the court do anything less than give it their all (the exception being diving for loose balls with 40 seconds left in a blowout).  I think they will, they should, and frankly, any player who doesn't should have some doubt surrounding their future with this team.

hpantazo's words were:

• "... player knows when it's best to pack it in"

in the context of why the team should just play poorly because the season is a lost cause.

In his earlier comment, he referenced his own playing experience as if that were a relevant foundation for this assertion about NBA player attitudes.   It is not, unless he were playing with millions of dollars on the line.