Big Man debate

[Celtics4ever]

One thing about Shaq is he was a bull but he also lacked skills and footwork.  His low post moves when he came into the league was lower the shoulder and dunk it.   His jump hook was something he developed.  He is a low post guy with no high post game.   I have always expected the no charge circle down low was to benefit his game and help him.

Moses Malone was strong too, he was 6-10  or 6-11 and 230 lbs in his prime and 262 lbs at the end of his career.  He tutored Ojulawon and Barkley and averaged 12.2 RPG for his career.  Do you realize that he out rebounded Jabbar 72-30 in the 83 finals.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/malonem_bio.html

Check out this Walton game highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmxRIEyBiXo

Perhaps the best all around game by a center with 20 points, 23 rebounds, 7 assists and 8 blocks

Bigs today are not as good as back in the day skill wise it is not even close.   AAU ball has kept people playing and they don't develop their skills.  Physically, the athletes are better trained today.  Add modern weights to these old guys skills and we would not be mentioning some of the new ones.

[Roy H.]

Doesn't mean Shaq had the greatest career, but his peak was better than anyone else's.

In Shaq's best year, he put up 29.7 points and 13.6 rebounds.  As dominant and great as he was, I don't think that matches up to Wilt's or Kareem's best seasons.  I mean, it's easy to discount Wilt due to his era, but 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds is hard to minimize.

[fitzhickey]

The lack of perspective of past players some show here is appalling.  Guess the whole student of the game thing has died.  ESPN Classics has failed us.

Dirk on the list is a joke.  No Moses Malone is a huge gap in the list.  George Mikan dominated his era while I don't think he would do well today he belongs in the discussion. (hint they don't call it the Mikan drill for nothing)

Bill Walton when healthy would destroy a lot of guys on this list.

This isn't meant to be some all encompassing list by any stretch, just food for discussion.

[KGs Knee]

Doesn't mean Shaq had the greatest career, but his peak was better than anyone else's.

In Shaq's best year, he put up 29.7 points and 13.6 rebounds.  As dominant and great as he was, I don't think that matches up to Wilt's or Kareem's best seasons.  I mean, it's easy to discount Wilt due to his era, but 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds is hard to minimize.

If we're talking just pure statistics, sure.  Wilt trumps them all, but I don't think anyone has him as their overall 'best'.  And I do discount his stats due to era somewhat.  He had almost no competition.  The one player who could truly match him, Russell, never allowed him those kinds of averages.  Wilt would never get those averages in today's NBA.  I think Kareem could come really close to matching Shaq, mainly because Shaq would have a hard time with Kareem's skill (he could pass too).  The sky hook will forever be the most unstoppable shot in basketball.

I don't know if we'll ever see a player of Shaq's combination size, athleticism, and agility ever again.  It's a shame he wasn't more dedicated, the debate would be moot.

[mmmmm]

The lack of perspective of past players some show here is appalling.  Guess the whole student of the game thing has died.  ESPN Classics has failed us.

Dirk on the list is a joke.  No Moses Malone is a huge gap in the list.  George Mikan dominated his era while I don't think he would do well today he belongs in the discussion. (hint they don't call it the Mikan drill for nothing)

Bill Walton when healthy would destroy a lot of guys on this list.

Good call on the Walton mention.  I'd thought of putting Mikan's name out there on my list as well.   'Hard to say how he'd do in the modern NBA, but his dominance of his era was legit.

[TwinTower14]

Doesn't mean Shaq had the greatest career, but his peak was better than anyone else's.

In Shaq's best year, he put up 29.7 points and 13.6 rebounds.  As dominant and great as he was, I don't think that matches up to Wilt's or Kareem's best seasons.  I mean, it's easy to discount Wilt due to his era, but 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds is hard to minimize.

If we're talking just pure statistics, sure.  Wilt trumps them all, but I don't think anyone has him as their overall 'best'.  And I do discount his stats due to era somewhat.  He had almost no competition.  The one player who could truly match him, Russell, never allowed him those kinds of averages.  Wilt would never get those averages in today's NBA.  I think Kareem could come really close to matching Shaq, mainly because Shaq would have a hard time with Kareem's skill (he could pass too).  The sky hook will forever be the most unstoppable shot in basketball.

I don't know if we'll ever see a player of Shaq's combination size, athleticism, and agility ever again.  It's a shame he wasn't more dedicated, the debate would be moot.

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime.  Too big, too athletic and too strong  and you are right about being dedicated.  If he had the drive of a Russell, KG, Jordan, Kobe etc...Shaq may have went down as the GOAT because he had all the physical tools to dominate ( which he did dominate for years, just felt like there was more there....) but he just didn't have the desire....

[Moranis]

Doesn't mean Shaq had the greatest career, but his peak was better than anyone else's.

In Shaq's best year, he put up 29.7 points and 13.6 rebounds.  As dominant and great as he was, I don't think that matches up to Wilt's or Kareem's best seasons.  I mean, it's easy to discount Wilt due to his era, but 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds is hard to minimize.

If we're talking just pure statistics, sure.  Wilt trumps them all, but I don't think anyone has him as their overall 'best'.  And I do discount his stats due to era somewhat.  He had almost no competition.  The one player who could truly match him, Russell, never allowed him those kinds of averages.  Wilt would never get those averages in today's NBA.  I think Kareem could come really close to matching Shaq, mainly because Shaq would have a hard time with Kareem's skill (he could pass too).  The sky hook will forever be the most unstoppable shot in basketball.

I don't know if we'll ever see a player of Shaq's combination size, athleticism, and agility ever again.  It's a shame he wasn't more dedicated, the debate would be moot.

You are wrong on Wilt.  Wilt dominated Bill head to head.  In fact he was generally above his averages against Bill.  Bill just had vastly superior teammates for much of their time. 

No doubt Wilt was a physically gifted player (similar to Lebron in that respect), but he was also a very good overall player.  He had all the skills and he never came out of the game.  He averaged 48.5 minutes one year.  He ran up and down the court all game long and just didn't quit.  Sure he was tall, but he was in incredible shape and was stronger than anyone else in the league by a very wide margin (contrary to popular belief, he was not the only 7'er in the league and was often not the tallest player in the league).  His coach asked him to score, so he did.  His coach asked him to pass, so he led the league in assists.  Yes he was prickly to deal with at times and clashed with some of his coaches, but very few of the all time greats didn't (I mean look at Jordan). 

Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest player to ever play the game. 

[Roy H.]

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime. 

Shaq was a dominant player, but this is largely hyperbole.  Hakeem, for instance, did a great job neutralizing Shaq when they were both near their primes.

[Donoghus]

Did Wilt & Russell get added to this poll later on? 

[Roy H.]

Did Wilt & Russell get added to this poll later on?

Yeah, and Dirk got dropped. 

[KGs Knee]

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime. 

Shaq was a dominant player, but this is largely hyperbole.  Hakeem, for instance, did a great job neutralizing Shaq when they were both near their primes.

You say hyperbole, I say spot on accurate.

Shaq had just come into the league when they matched up.  Hakeem was just barely on the downside of his 'prime'.  Big difference there, mainly, experience.

[TwinTower14]

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime. 

Shaq was a dominant player, but this is largely hyperbole.  Hakeem, for instance, did a great job neutralizing Shaq when they were both near their primes.

You say hyperbole, I say spot on accurate.

Shaq had just come into the league when they matched up.  Hakeem was just barely on the downside of his 'prime'.  Big difference there, mainly, experience.

Sorry, when Shaq was a Laker, during their title runs, you could place any big man against him and he would have had his way with them.  As I stated before, too strong and athletic for anyone to handle...

[TwinTower14]

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime. 

Shaq was a dominant player, but this is largely hyperbole.  Hakeem, for instance, did a great job neutralizing Shaq when they were both near their primes.

Shaq was 22 and 23 when he faced off with the Dream, hardly his prime.  His dominate years were with the Lakers...

[Moranis]

I agree - there is not one guy that has ever played in the NBA that could handle Shaq one on one in his prime. 

Shaq was a dominant player, but this is largely hyperbole.  Hakeem, for instance, did a great job neutralizing Shaq when they were both near their primes.

I'd hardly say Hakeem neutralized 22 year old Shaq.  In the finals, which Houston swept, Shaq averaged a "terrible" 28 points, 12.5 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 2.5 blocks on a "meager" 59.5% from the field (only the points were below his season average and only slightly, everything else was an improvement).  In fact, 22 year old Shaq, basically out-performed 32 year old Hakeem the entire series.   Hakeem just had a much deeper team while it was basically the Shaq & Penny show for Orlando.

[timpiker]

Its a no-brainer - Mr. Russell without any doubt....  IF the goal is to win it all.