Is Stevens going to start the rookies in April?

[Endless Paradise]

I don't know if this draft has any franchise players along the lines of a LeBron or a KD.  However, it seems deep in Melo/Bosh/Westbrook/Love-caliber players.

[BballTim]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

[Smokeeye123]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

That's hype at this point. Embiid has shown glimpses of Hakeem level talent, Wiggins and Parker have also had their moments. I think their max is more Carmelo than Lebron which is still good.

[BballTim]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

That's hype at this point. Embiid has shown glimpses of Hakeem level talent, Wiggins and Parker have also had their moments. I think their max is more Carmelo than Lebron which is still good.

   It was always hype.

[guava_wrench]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

The most I ever heard anyone say was 6 before the college season started. Those who said 6 said the drop off was major after these 6:

Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Exum
Randle
Smart? (I think this is who people mentioned)

I never heard anyone ever say more than 6 names.

I also do not remember anyone expecting 6 Lebron or Hakeem level players. People felt there were 6 guys who had legitimate shots of being perennial all stars perhaps 2 or 3 who could end up transcendent players. No one was saying Randle was going to be Lebron caliber. Melo caliber maybe, but not an all-time great. Wiggins, Parker and Embiid have been the main guys talked about as players who could carry a franchise.

[PhoSita]

Again, though, what we can get in trade value for the 4th pick vs. the 14th pick is purely speculation on your part.  If it turns out that most GMs start to believe that there's a lot of depth in this draft, but not that much separation in talent and potential between picks 4 and 14, then the difference in trade value between those picks won't be as significant as you seem to believe it will be. 

Also, you haven't acknowledged the premise that there could actually be some positives for the future involved in closing out the season on a strong note:

1.  It could raise trade value of players already on the roster.

2.  It could help develop chemistry and confidence going into next year for the players who stick around.

3.  It could help make the Celtics a more attractive destination for free free agents or soon-to-be free agents.

I respect that you're sticking to your principles, C18, and fighting at all odds to keep supporting the cause even at this advanced stage.  I can't help feeling, though, that you sound a little bit like the captain of the Titanic repeating, to the last, "Full steam ahead!"

NBA GMs do not respond to small sample sizes.  Not the good ones, anyway, and there aren't that many stupid ones left.  A 10-12 game stretch of inspired play -- a last gasp for an overmatched team that needs putting out of its misery -- will not make any more difference in how the players on this team are evaluated than the relatively strong play at the beginning of the season did. 

Nobody was clamoring to give us a first round pick for Jordan Crawford after he garnered the "Player of the Week" award, after all.  Neither was anybody eager to take Humphries or Bass off our hands at the trade deadline.  A game-winner against the Heat, and a handful of other high-scoring performances, didn't make Green especially more attractive to potential trade partners, either.


Stevens is, and always has been, entirely about the process.  He'll continue to stick to his process in this last stretch of the season, just as he has throughout the rest of it.  Which is to say, he'll try different things at different times.  Sometimes it will seem like he's putting the best foot forward to win a game at all costs.  At other times, it'll seem like he's just experimenting and winning is the last thing on his mind.

[Spilling Green Dye]

With wins by the Lakers and Kings last night the Celtics should all the more play the young guns the remainder of the way.  I'm 100% for the focus to be on the development of Kelly O. and others and not on what the score of the game is. 

[Vox_Populi]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

I honestly doubt a player better than Wade will come out this draft. That's nothing to be ashamed of, since Wade's top 5 all time in his position, but it was hyped like it'd have guys around there.

[D.o.s.]

...Im as pro tanking as it gets but 4-5 more franchise cornerstones?

Julius Randle is a franchise cornerstone?

It's debatable if even Wiggins/Parker/Embiid are.

  I kept hearing that there were 7-8 franchise cornerstones in the draft, including a couple of LeBron level players. Or maybe a LeBron and a Hakeem, I can't recall for sure. People were assuring me this was true.

I honestly doubt a player better than Wade will come out this draft. That's nothing to be ashamed of, since Wade's top 5 all time in his position, but it was hyped like it'd have guys around there.

I don't know about you guys, but my crystal ball's been broken, so I don't know whether the hype will be warranted.

The fact that people got caught up in the "best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies..." part of "The best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies with very high ceilings who will probably be great players in the NBA" isn't their fault.

[PhoSita]

The fact that people got caught up in the "best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies..." part of "The best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies with very high ceilings who will probably be great players in the NBA" isn't their fault.

Man, that sentence took me like 5 read-throughs to comprehend.


That said -- I agree.  I don't even think we've seen anything to refute the idea that this draft class has at least 6 or 7 very talented players. 

However, I think a lot of people interpreted that as "6 or 7 players who are guaranteed to become stars and make an immediate impact in the league" (i.e. 'sure things'), and that notion seems to have been hype.

[D.o.s.]

The fact that people got caught up in the "best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies..." part of "The best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies with very high ceilings who will probably be great players in the NBA" isn't their fault.

Man, that sentence took me like 5 read-throughs to comprehend.


That said -- I agree.  I don't even think we've seen anything to refute the idea that this draft class has at least 6 or 7 very talented players. 

However, I think a lot of people interpreted that as "6 or 7 players who are guaranteed to become stars and make an immediate impact in the league" (i.e. 'sure things'), and that notion seems to have been hype.

Definitely not my clearest sentence ever, that's for sure.

I think this is less of a case of buyer beware and more of a case of fans putting the idea of these guys on a pedestal.

[PhoSita]

The fact that people got caught up in the "best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies..." part of "The best draft class in years with 6 or 7 ridiculously talented rookies with very high ceilings who will probably be great players in the NBA" isn't their fault.

Man, that sentence took me like 5 read-throughs to comprehend.


That said -- I agree.  I don't even think we've seen anything to refute the idea that this draft class has at least 6 or 7 very talented players. 

However, I think a lot of people interpreted that as "6 or 7 players who are guaranteed to become stars and make an immediate impact in the league" (i.e. 'sure things'), and that notion seems to have been hype.

Definitely not my clearest sentence ever, that's for sure.

I should say, that wasn't meant as a dig at you, I just found it amusing.

[D.o.s.]

Oh, yeah, no offense taken.

[Spilling Green Dye]

To answer the question of the OP, I don't think Stevens will start the rookies in April.  However, he probably will be more likely to experiment with lineups and probably won't play Humphries and other vets as much. 

To clarify as to why I'm completely pro-tanking in April, there are two specific reasons:

1)  In the NBA Draft, the #4 position has a lot more trade value than the #8 or #9.  The differential in value is significantly more than anything that can be gained by winning a few extra games against fellow bottom dwellers.

2)  Vested interest in the top players in this year's draft.  No-one assumed that these players were guaranteed to be superstars, but they look to have a higher potential than most top players in most drafts.  With such a lousy Celtics team this year (let's face it, 23-47 in the East is lousy) we've found ourselves watching different college players and imagining them in Celtic's Green.  I have much more of a vested interest in the Jabari's and Wiggens of this draft than the Marcus Smart's, etc.  I can picture them in Green as well as who we might trade/draft to fill around them.  By winning meaningless games in April I feel like this vision is slipping away and we'll be stuck in mediocrity, even though I know that's not a guarantee either. 

You never know who will be the next Wade, Durant, etc until you draft them, and we know that those types of players are more often found in the top 5 than the 6-10. 

[Celtics18]

Again, though, what we can get in trade value for the 4th pick vs. the 14th pick is purely speculation on your part.  If it turns out that most GMs start to believe that there's a lot of depth in this draft, but not that much separation in talent and potential between picks 4 and 14, then the difference in trade value between those picks won't be as significant as you seem to believe it will be. 

Also, you haven't acknowledged the premise that there could actually be some positives for the future involved in closing out the season on a strong note:

1.  It could raise trade value of players already on the roster.

2.  It could help develop chemistry and confidence going into next year for the players who stick around.

3.  It could help make the Celtics a more attractive destination for free free agents or soon-to-be free agents.

I respect that you're sticking to your principles, C18, and fighting at all odds to keep supporting the cause even at this advanced stage.  I can't help feeling, though, that you sound a little bit like the captain of the Titanic repeating, to the last, "Full steam ahead!"

NBA GMs do not respond to small sample sizes.  Not the good ones, anyway, and there aren't that many stupid ones left.  A 10-12 game stretch of inspired play -- a last gasp for an overmatched team that needs putting out of its misery -- will not make any more difference in how the players on this team are evaluated than the relatively strong play at the beginning of the season did. 

Nobody was clamoring to give us a first round pick for Jordan Crawford after he garnered the "Player of the Week" award, after all.  Neither was anybody eager to take Humphries or Bass off our hands at the trade deadline.  A game-winner against the Heat, and a handful of other high-scoring performances, didn't make Green especially more attractive to potential trade partners, either.


Stevens is, and always has been, entirely about the process.  He'll continue to stick to his process in this last stretch of the season, just as he has throughout the rest of it.  Which is to say, he'll try different things at different times.  Sometimes it will seem like he's putting the best foot forward to win a game at all costs.  At other times, it'll seem like he's just experimenting and winning is the last thing on his mind.

I would've made it if it wasn't for that darned iceberg.