Is Stevens going to start the rookies in April?

[Smokeeye123]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

That's a cliche that I read a lot on this forum.   

Are you actually saying that if we don't get a top three pick this year, the team "will never compete for a championship"?  That's just a completely unfounded statement that is thrown out there way too often. 


I also am stunned that you use the Magic and Sixers as examples of franchises who we should aspire to be like.

I think not bottoming out like the Sixers or Magic slows the rebuilding process unless you have an ideal destination for the diva allstars of the world to want to play in like LA or  Miami.  The Sixers and Magic and Cavs really all have drafted incredibly poorly, made poor roster decisions, and not been able to hang onto their stars. From an organizational standpoint the Celtics should absolutly not be them, this year though, I think they should of traded a few players for scraps at the deadline and further bottomed out. Look at a team like the Spurs one of the best organizations in the league. How did they achieve greatness? They TANKED and got Duncan. How did the Celtics win banner 17? They TANKED and got a high pick.

Teams like OKC, San Antonio, the Celtics, and most of the league HAVE to bottom out and draft well/make trades to be successful. Celtics have never brought any big name free agents in so drafting studs is essential.

[KGs Knee]

We are almost guaranteed to be in the lottery at this point.  Congratulations, Tankers!!  Mission accomplished.

I think that shooting for a bottom three record is way too cynical, though.  It's not likely to happen.  Try to win games and make the most of one pick in the top ten and another in the top twenty of a very deep draft. 

Maybe, we'll get really lucky in the lottery.  Wouldn't it be hysterical if we won the lottery from somewhere between the 8th to 12th best odds?  The rest of the league's fans would go into an absolute tizzy. 

 

Wouldn't it be even funnier if Embiid, Wiggins and Parker all decide to stay in school?

Hopefully if the C's win the lottery that doesn't happen. It sure would serve the Tankers right though.   Disrespecting the game should not be rewarded.

If that happens tanking will become twice as worse next season hahaha.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I could see the reason why though.


I've made no bones about my dislike for tanking. It's wrong in my eyes. I've never doubted it's potential to impact the team positively in building a good team. It has a lot of risks though, and is certainly not the only way to build a good team.

I watched the 90's C's. I don't want to relive that as an adult. Ainge seems far better than anybody running the team then though, and Wyc is far more committed to winning than past ownership.

[Celtics18]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

That's a cliche that I read a lot on this forum.   

Are you actually saying that if we don't get a top three pick this year, the team "will never compete for a championship"?  That's just a completely unfounded statement that is thrown out there way too often. 


I also am stunned that you use the Magic and Sixers as examples of franchises who we should aspire to be like.

I think not bottoming out like the Sixers or Magic slows the rebuilding process unless you have an ideal destination for the diva allstars of the world to want to play in like LA or  Miami.  The Sixers and Magic and Cavs really all have drafted incredibly poorly, made poor roster decisions, and not been able to hang onto their stars. From an organizational standpoint the Celtics should absolutly not be them, this year though, I think they should of traded a few players for scraps at the deadline and further bottomed out. Look at a team like the Spurs one of the best organizations in the league. How did they achieve greatness? They TANKED and got Duncan. How did the Celtics win banner 17? They TANKED and got a high pick.

Teams like OKC, San Antonio, the Celtics, and most of the league HAVE to bottom out and draft well/make trades to be successful. Celtics have never brought any big name free agents in so drafting studs is essential.

The Spurs lost David Robinson for the season the year they bottomed out.  They didn't tank games on purpose. 

"How did the Celtics win banner 17?  They TANKED and got a high pick."

That's obviously only a small portion of the answer to that question.  Danny made some smart trades, he kept the right guys, including Paul Pierce, and put together a contender.  Crediting that championship entirely to getting a number five pick is an extreme oversimplification.

I don't begrudge you your opinion that you'd like to see this team to tank harder to close out the season.  You are entitled to your opinion, but statements that claim the Celtics "will never compete for a title" unless they do are still completely baseless speculation. 

[Endless Paradise]

the Wizard and Bobcats did the same thing and Just now the Cats are getting into the playoffs barely, and the Wirzards are still one or two years away from that.

What?  The Wizards are all-but a playoff lock and have won more games than the Bobcats thus far.  Also, Brooklyn was bad at the start of the season, but they're making the playoffs, so I'm not sure why you're talking about worrying about the Nets.  They're a non-factor as far as the lottery.

[LooseCannon]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

That's a cliche that I read a lot on this forum.   

Are you actually saying that if we don't get a top three pick this year, the team "will never compete for a championship"?  That's just a completely unfounded statement that is thrown out there way too often. 


I also am stunned that you use the Magic and Sixers as examples of franchises who we should aspire to be like.

I guarantee that the Celtics will win a title before the Magic, Sixers, Hawks, or Grizzlies do, even if they don't get a top three pick.

You can take it to the bank.

[BballTim]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

  Lots of teams bottom out, few of them rise from the ashes to contend for titles. You're acting like teams that have done the former are shoo-ins for the latter.

[Smokeeye123]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

  Lots of teams bottom out, few of them rise from the ashes to contend for titles. You're acting like teams that have done the former are shoo-ins for the latter.

No but the chances of them getting a high pick and contending for a title by bottoming out are much higher as opposed to middling out, just missing the playoffs, and ending up with the 13th pick in the draft.

Is it easier to assemble a championship team by drafting player in the 1-5 range or the 6-14 range? Is that even a question? Who was the last big free agent the Celtics have signed...? My point is that you are building a championship team in a city like Boston, you have to do it through the draft with high picks, and with trades. (Trades that become easier to make with high picks Remember 2007?)Paul Pierces just aren't going to fall into your lap with late lotto picks.

[LooseCannon]

Is it easier to assemble a championship team by drafting player in the 1-5 range or the 6-14 range? Is that even a question?

I think it is easier to assemble a championship team by adding a player drafted in the 6-14 range to the current Celtics roster than by adding a player in the 1-5 range to a D-League roster.

[Celtics18]

The differences in a couple spots in the draft is using it to trade for an allstar/draft a future allstar or becoming a treadmill team like the Hawks/Grizzlies and never competing for a championship. Sixers and Magic GM's have smartly realized this and traded useless pieces from their teams to fully bottom out. Apparently Ainge didn't want to do that...You can't build a mansion until you've laid the foundation. What is our foundation? Rondo? Sullinger? Is that a championship winning caliber foundation?

  Lots of teams bottom out, few of them rise from the ashes to contend for titles. You're acting like teams that have done the former are shoo-ins for the latter.

No but the chances of them getting a high pick and contending for a title by bottoming out are much higher as opposed to middling out, just missing the playoffs, and ending up with the 13th pick in the draft.

Is it easier to assemble a championship team by drafting player in the 1-5 range or the 6-14 range? Is that even a question? Who was the last big free agent the Celtics have signed...? My point is that you are building a championship team in a city like Boston, you have to do it through the draft with high picks, and with trades. (Trades that become easier to make with high picks Remember 2007?)Paul Pierces just aren't going to fall into your lap with late lotto picks.

A team in the 6 to 14 range is likely to have considerably more talent already in place than a team picking in the 1 to 5 range. 

And, honestly, I think it's starting to look like there are two guys in this draft who have a legitimate chance to be franchise level superstars (that doesn't mean they'll both get there--that's far from a given), and then a whole lot of players who seem like they'll have a chance to be very good pros.  That second list doesn't look like it ends after pick number five. 

I trust Danny Ainge to make good choices with his two first round picks.

With two first round picks coming in, I think what you want for next year's team is one that helps to develop the young guys within a winning culture--not necessarily a championship level one right away, but one moving in the right direction. 

Based on my take on this year's draft, I think it helps our future more to play some decent basketball to close out the season.  Doing so will help the guys who are going to be kept around to develop some chemistry together and it may help raise the trade value of those who aren't going to be kept around long-term (even if only marginally).

[LilRip]

good news, Utah won today against the Magic (by 1 point!) and we move closer to the bottom as they move up.

The teams to watch out for really are just LA, Utah and Sac. i think the "best" the C's can hope for at this point is the 4th worst record.

Ever since the off-season, when DA "unveiled" this roster that featured an injured Rondo, a rookie coach and a bunch of spare parts in the rotation, I've been a pro-tanker. Even if he never went out and said it, this looked like a year in which DA was willing to give up for a brighter future.

Now, it's a given that nothing is guaranteed in this league (a pick could be a bust in the same that guys like KO or Sully could potentially stop improving or they've already reached their ceiling, or like how Rondo could bolt in FA and leave us with nothing) but logically, a higher pick will put us at a better position to rebuild, and i trust DA's decision making once he has the assets. That's all people can really do anyway: Put themselves in the best position to succeed.

[Celtics18]

good news, Utah won today against the Magic (by 1 point!) and we move closer to the bottom as they move up.

The teams to watch out for really are just LA, Utah and Sac. i think the "best" the C's can hope for at this point is the 4th worst record.

Ever since the off-season, when DA "unveiled" this roster that featured an injured Rondo, a rookie coach and a bunch of spare parts in the rotation, I've been a pro-tanker. Even if he never went out and said it, this looked like a year in which DA was willing to give up for a brighter future.

Now, it's a given that nothing is guaranteed in this league (a pick could be a bust in the same that guys like KO or Sully could potentially stop improving or they've already reached their ceiling, or like how Rondo could bolt in FA and leave us with nothing) but logically, a higher pick will put us at a better position to rebuild, and i trust DA's decision making once he has the assets. That's all people can really do anyway: Put themselves in the best position to succeed.

If the best we can hope for is "4th worst" then I'm not going to lose to much sleep if we end up somewhere between 6th to 14th worst. 

After Wiggins and Parker (and possibly Embiid), I don't think there's that much clear cut talent separation between the next guys.  I think, for example, that one or more of the likes of TJ Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Willie Cauley-Stein, Dario Saric, Noah Vonleh, Gary Harris, Nik Stauskas, and/or Adreian Payne have a chance to be as good or better pros as Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Dante Exum, and/or Aaron Gordon. 

[LilRip]

good news, Utah won today against the Magic (by 1 point!) and we move closer to the bottom as they move up.

The teams to watch out for really are just LA, Utah and Sac. i think the "best" the C's can hope for at this point is the 4th worst record.

Ever since the off-season, when DA "unveiled" this roster that featured an injured Rondo, a rookie coach and a bunch of spare parts in the rotation, I've been a pro-tanker. Even if he never went out and said it, this looked like a year in which DA was willing to give up for a brighter future.

Now, it's a given that nothing is guaranteed in this league (a pick could be a bust in the same that guys like KO or Sully could potentially stop improving or they've already reached their ceiling, or like how Rondo could bolt in FA and leave us with nothing) but logically, a higher pick will put us at a better position to rebuild, and i trust DA's decision making once he has the assets. That's all people can really do anyway: Put themselves in the best position to succeed.

If the best we can hope for is "4th worst" then I'm not going to lose to much sleep if we end up somewhere between 6th to 14th worst. 

After Wiggins and Parker (and possibly Embiid), I don't think there's that much clear cut talent separation between the next guys.  I think, for example, that one or more of the likes of TJ Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Willie Cauley-Stein, Dario Saric, Noah Vonleh, Gary Harris, Nik Stauskas, and/or Adreian Payne have a chance to be as good or better pros as Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Dante Exum, and/or Aaron Gordon.

that's your assessment (I think Exum will be terrific) and that's if you're simply looking to use the pick on a rookie. it's probable that DA trades the 4th pick in a package, which would net more value than say, the 14th pick.

if we landed the 14th pick in 07, i doubt we would've gotten Ray Allen.

[Celtics18]

good news, Utah won today against the Magic (by 1 point!) and we move closer to the bottom as they move up.

The teams to watch out for really are just LA, Utah and Sac. i think the "best" the C's can hope for at this point is the 4th worst record.

Ever since the off-season, when DA "unveiled" this roster that featured an injured Rondo, a rookie coach and a bunch of spare parts in the rotation, I've been a pro-tanker. Even if he never went out and said it, this looked like a year in which DA was willing to give up for a brighter future.

Now, it's a given that nothing is guaranteed in this league (a pick could be a bust in the same that guys like KO or Sully could potentially stop improving or they've already reached their ceiling, or like how Rondo could bolt in FA and leave us with nothing) but logically, a higher pick will put us at a better position to rebuild, and i trust DA's decision making once he has the assets. That's all people can really do anyway: Put themselves in the best position to succeed.

If the best we can hope for is "4th worst" then I'm not going to lose to much sleep if we end up somewhere between 6th to 14th worst. 

After Wiggins and Parker (and possibly Embiid), I don't think there's that much clear cut talent separation between the next guys.  I think, for example, that one or more of the likes of TJ Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Willie Cauley-Stein, Dario Saric, Noah Vonleh, Gary Harris, Nik Stauskas, and/or Adreian Payne have a chance to be as good or better pros as Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Dante Exum, and/or Aaron Gordon.

that's your assessment (I think Exum will be terrific) and that's if you're simply looking to use the pick on a rookie. it's probable that DA trades the 4th pick in a package, which would net more value than say, the 14th pick.

if we landed the 14th pick in 07, i doubt we would've gotten Ray Allen.

That's your assessment:

Don't get me wrong here on Exum, but I've long suspected that more than half the hype on him stems from the fact that nobody has ever seen him play (outside of that one World Hoops Summit game--where he played really well).  So, not having seen him, nobody has been able to tear his game apart like they have with everybody else.  It's more fun to imagine that he's the Penny Hardaway of the Outback than that he's a poor man's version of Michael Carter-Williams.

We'll see.  I'm rooting for him. 

[LilRip]

good news, Utah won today against the Magic (by 1 point!) and we move closer to the bottom as they move up.

The teams to watch out for really are just LA, Utah and Sac. i think the "best" the C's can hope for at this point is the 4th worst record.

Ever since the off-season, when DA "unveiled" this roster that featured an injured Rondo, a rookie coach and a bunch of spare parts in the rotation, I've been a pro-tanker. Even if he never went out and said it, this looked like a year in which DA was willing to give up for a brighter future.

Now, it's a given that nothing is guaranteed in this league (a pick could be a bust in the same that guys like KO or Sully could potentially stop improving or they've already reached their ceiling, or like how Rondo could bolt in FA and leave us with nothing) but logically, a higher pick will put us at a better position to rebuild, and i trust DA's decision making once he has the assets. That's all people can really do anyway: Put themselves in the best position to succeed.

If the best we can hope for is "4th worst" then I'm not going to lose to much sleep if we end up somewhere between 6th to 14th worst. 

After Wiggins and Parker (and possibly Embiid), I don't think there's that much clear cut talent separation between the next guys.  I think, for example, that one or more of the likes of TJ Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Willie Cauley-Stein, Dario Saric, Noah Vonleh, Gary Harris, Nik Stauskas, and/or Adreian Payne have a chance to be as good or better pros as Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Dante Exum, and/or Aaron Gordon.

that's your assessment (I think Exum will be terrific) and that's if you're simply looking to use the pick on a rookie. it's probable that DA trades the 4th pick in a package, which would net more value than say, the 14th pick.

if we landed the 14th pick in 07, i doubt we would've gotten Ray Allen.

That's your assessment:

Don't get me wrong here on Exum, but I've long suspected that more than half the hype on him stems from the fact that nobody has ever seen him play (outside of that one World Hoops Summit game--where he played really well).  So, not having seen him, nobody has been able to tear his game apart like they have with everybody else.  It's more fun to imagine that he's the Penny Hardaway of the Outback than that he's a poor man's version of Michael Carter-Williams.

We'll see.  I'm rooting for him.

Our own assessments of the rookies are our own. My take on Exum could easily be wrong in the same way that it could easily be right.

However, my point stands that there's actually a significant difference between holding pick #14 and say, pick #4, particularly in trade value. Teams who want to move up will trade something good to get #4. Meanwhile, there will likely be significantly lesser offers to acquire the #14 pick.

[hpantazo]

also, don't forget that even if you don't like anyone out of the top 3, being 4th worst gives us a much better chance at winning the lottery and ending up in the top 3 than being 6th or less would.