No longer believe Rondo could become a decent shooter

[Boris Badenov]

It will be difficult to judge whether or not he has improved until well into next season I believe.

   Someone did a study about how players who come back from knee injuries tend to end up shooting better at jump shots but the improvement isn't seen the year they come back, it shows up the next year.

I read that article pretty closely. The improvement is there in the data, but it's also true that many of the players in that study were pretty young - and therefore perhaps expected to improve their jump shooting a bit anyway.

The right comparison would involve calculating the pre-post difference for guys with injuries, and comparing them to a control group of similarly-aged but uninjured players over an identical length of time (like 18 months). Such a "difference in difference" would be the right test.

I do agree that it's probably too early (and too small of a sample) to conclude anything in Rondo's case. His shooting percentages closer to the basket are actually the thing that's suffered most, and I doubt he's gotten worse at hitting from short range, so it's natural to think that he's hitting fewer shots because he's rusty and/or less explosive. The same might be true for his outside shooting.

[thirstyboots18]

Volume shooters, especially point guards, are often one man losing teams.

I still see this idea put out there from time to time, but it seems dated to me.

Looking around the league, a number of really good teams are led by point guards that score quite a lot of points.  Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, and Russell Westbrook are at the top of that list.

I don't want Rondo trying to be a volume shooter because I don't think that's his game.  He doesn't have the skillset to take 20-25 shots a night.  He isn't at his best when that's who he's trying to be.  I do think that for Rondo to continue playing at a high level into his mid 30's, he's going to need to become a reliable spot-up three point shooter the way that Jason Kidd did.  Otherwise he'll be more of a borderline starter a la Andre Miller.

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

[indeedproceed]

Volume shooters, especially point guards, are often one man losing teams.

I still see this idea put out there from time to time, but it seems dated to me.

Looking around the league, a number of really good teams are led by point guards that score quite a lot of points.  Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, and Russell Westbrook are at the top of that list.

I don't want Rondo trying to be a volume shooter because I don't think that's his game.  He doesn't have the skillset to take 20-25 shots a night.  He isn't at his best when that's who he's trying to be.  I do think that for Rondo to continue playing at a high level into his mid 30's, he's going to need to become a reliable spot-up three point shooter the way that Jason Kidd did.  Otherwise he'll be more of a borderline starter a la Andre Miller.

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

While I don't think anyone is going to argue that Westbrook could be a better passer, I don't think you can saddle ol Russ with too much disdain, when you look at the Thunder's success. And if one wanted to point to their success without Westbrook as point in fact that he doesn't contribute much, the guy they replaced him with, Reggie Jackson, still a volume scorer.

Scoring guards can absolutely win in this league, especially if there is a guy on the wing who can pass.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Had to go on an exercise hiatus for several months, til' around a week ago.

Played pickup basketball last weekend, cold turkey. Was super tired after a while. Could not move and my defense sucked hard as I stayed in the paint, panting.

Played again this past weekend. After a couple games I took a few more shots. No legs. No arms. Lost a lot of range on my jumper.

[KGs Knee]

While I don't think anyone is going to argue that Westbrook could be a better passer, I don't think you can saddle ol Russ with too much disdain, when you look at the Thunder's success. And if one wanted to point to their success without Westbrook as point in fact that he doesn't contribute much, the guy they replaced him with, Reggie Jackson, still a volume scorer.

Scoring guards can absolutely win in this league, especially if there is a guy on the wing who can pass.

You know, I'm beginning to believe more that this is true in today's NBA.  I still don't think I can see a score first PG leading  a team to a title anymore than a PG like Rondo, at least not as the  'main' guy.

Different ways to skin a cat.

[PhoSita]

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

Yes, I do.  Russell Westbrook makes the Thunder a more dangerous and efficient offensive team.  Generating offense for teammates isn't always about passing to them right when they are about to shoot.  Dribble penetration and generally pressuring the defense are invaluable.

I think the Thunder would be a worse team if you swapped Westbrook for a passer like Rondo.

[Fafnir]

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

Yes, I do.  Russell Westbrook makes the Thunder a more dangerous and efficient offensive team.  Generating offense for teammates isn't always about passing to them right when they are about to shoot.  Dribble penetration and generally pressuring the defense are invaluable.

Which is the aspect that's missing most from Rondo right now. He's not getting the same consistent dribble penetration for the C's.

[Fafnir]

I think the Thunder would be a worse team if you swapped Westbrook for a passer like Rondo.

I think they'd be better pre-ACL injury. Right now Rondo would need to get right near the basket and with his penetration.

[D.o.s.]

Volume shooters, especially point guards, are often one man losing teams.

I still see this idea put out there from time to time, but it seems dated to me.

Looking around the league, a number of really good teams are led by point guards that score quite a lot of points.  Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, and Russell Westbrook are at the top of that list.

I don't want Rondo trying to be a volume shooter because I don't think that's his game.  He doesn't have the skillset to take 20-25 shots a night.  He isn't at his best when that's who he's trying to be.  I do think that for Rondo to continue playing at a high level into his mid 30's, he's going to need to become a reliable spot-up three point shooter the way that Jason Kidd did.  Otherwise he'll be more of a borderline starter a la Andre Miller.

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

Did you just not watch the Thunder in last year's playoffs?

"Give the ball to Durant" is not a strategy you can use to win in the post-season. The Thunder need Westbrook and/or another high-level, viable scoring threat in order to keep KD playing at his best.

[Fafnir]

Westbrook's problem is he has too many possessions where he just dribbles to the three point line and chucks. Or drives right into the chest of a defender and throws up a prayer of a pass or shot.

You never know when he's just going to throw away 3 or 4 possessions in a quarter because he's mad or decides he's hot. Its part of who he is and he's still a great player, but if he didn't have those wasted trips he'd be on another level.

[KGs Knee]

I think the Thunder would be a worse team if you swapped Westbrook for a passer like Rondo.

I don't agree with this.

Westbrook being a greater scoring threat may open up the defense but it also requires a willing passer.  Westbrook isn't unwilling but he isn't remotely on Rondo's level in that regard.

I think Rondo's ability to run plays, plays that can work to get Durant easier, open shots would just make him much more efficient (than he already is).  I think it would also serve to get more consistent offense from the other players on the team.  Ibaka is good enough to be the 'number 2' scoring option with Rondo being number 3.

Basically, what you'd lose in individual scoring would be made up for, and then some, with improved efficiency of the overall offense, and most importantly, your best player.

Interestingly, an efficient offense can have a positive effect on transition defense as well.

[Donoghus]

I think the Thunder would be a worse team if you swapped Westbrook for a passer like Rondo.

I don't agree with this.

Westbrook being a greater scoring threat may open up the defense but it also requires a willing passer.  Westbrook isn't unwilling but he isn't remotely on Rondo's level in that regard.

I think Rondo's ability to run plays, plays that can work to get Durant easier, open shots would just make him much more efficient (than he already is).  I think it would also serve to get more consistent offense from the other players on the team.  Ibaka is good enough to be the 'number 2' scoring option with Rondo being number 3.

Basically, what you'd lose in individual scoring would be made up for, and then some, with improved efficiency of the overall offense, and most importantly, your best player.

Interestingly, an efficient offense can have a positive effect on transition defense as well.

It depends on the Rondo OKC would be getting.

Like Faf mentioned, if you're getting the dribble/pentrate Rondo, then I think he's a better fit for OKC.  When Rondo is aggressive & pressing inside offensively, he is a helluva basketball player either finishing at the rim or with the kick outs.  The problem is we haven't seen a lot of that post-injury. 

[djbilly33]

Who cares, if he can make half his jump shots and all his layups we're good.  Anyone else notice the great chemistry him and Hump have?  Thought I would share since I see them a good combo going forward.

[Vox_Populi]

Volume shooters, especially point guards, are often one man losing teams.

I still see this idea put out there from time to time, but it seems dated to me.

Looking around the league, a number of really good teams are led by point guards that score quite a lot of points.  Stephen Curry, Damian Lillard, and Russell Westbrook are at the top of that list.

I don't want Rondo trying to be a volume shooter because I don't think that's his game.  He doesn't have the skillset to take 20-25 shots a night.  He isn't at his best when that's who he's trying to be.  I do think that for Rondo to continue playing at a high level into his mid 30's, he's going to need to become a reliable spot-up three point shooter the way that Jason Kidd did.  Otherwise he'll be more of a borderline starter a la Andre Miller.

So you like that Russell Westbrook is a volume shooter....at the expense of one of the better scorers in the league?  I don't think it is dated at all to prefer him to pass to Durant.

Did you just not watch the Thunder in last year's playoffs?

"Give the ball to Durant" is not a strategy you can use to win in the post-season. The Thunder need Westbrook and/or another high-level, viable scoring threat in order to keep KD playing at his best.

I don't think last year's playoffs is that good an indicator of how a Westbrook-less OKC would properly fair.

[D.o.s.]

I think the Thunder would be a worse team if you swapped Westbrook for a passer like Rondo.

I don't agree with this.

Westbrook being a greater scoring threat may open up the defense but it also requires a willing passer.  Westbrook isn't unwilling but he isn't remotely on Rondo's level in that regard.

I think Rondo's ability to run plays, plays that can work to get Durant easier, open shots would just make him much more efficient (than he already is).  I think it would also serve to get more consistent offense from the other players on the team.  Ibaka is good enough to be the 'number 2' scoring option with Rondo being number 3.

Basically, what you'd lose in individual scoring would be made up for, and then some, with improved efficiency of the overall offense, and most importantly, your best player.

Interestingly, an efficient offense can have a positive effect on transition defense as well.

I think if you had a coach like Doc Rivers you might be right. With a coach like Scott Brookes, I'm not so sure.