Boston Vs. Philly Rebuilding Plans

[ChiefDK]

Curious what everyone's thoughts are. I think Philly is making a bad mistake by obviously tanking..here's why:

1. A losing culture is being created, young players are developing bad habits. Carter-Williams, for example is putting up decent numbers but is doing it in a sloppy, high volume fashion.
2. Given their cap space, what high level free agent will have any interest in signing with them? Next year they will be awful as well, even with a high pick and Noel coming back.

The Celtics can realistically be a playoff team (albeit in a weak conference) next season with simply continued development of young players and a Top 8 draft pick. They play hard, and it helps to have a veteran like Rondo leading the way. Hopefully that is enough to attract a top free agent.

I probably sound very biased..

[Lucky17]

Philly has their own pick and the Pelicans pick, plus tons of cap space to add pieces around Young, Noel, and MCW.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they make the leap to a playoff seed next year. But I think they ought to save their powder for the Summer of 2015.

[NikoZea]

Well Philly has a nice young core with Noel, Carter-Williams and the future draftee you mentioned. A decent coach too. They'll be alright in a few years.

But the C's got lucky and robbed Brooklyn of it's future to kickstart it's own. And Brad Stevens will probably be up there with thibs and pop in the coming years.

Not too biased. The losing culture thing is overblown though. 

[ChiefDK]

Well Philly has a nice young core with Noel, Carter-Williams and the future draftee you mentioned. A decent coach too. They'll be alright in a few years.

But the C's got lucky and robbed Brooklyn of it's future to kickstart it's own. And Brad Stevens will probably be up there with thibs and pop in the coming years.

Not too biased. The losing culture thing is overblown though.

You're probably right about "losing culture" being overblown, but I just wonder if Carter-Williams is learning anything playing on a team built to lose. It doesn't look like there's any structure there based on the handful of games I've seen.

[D.o.s.]

Simmons brought up the fact that 'Toine's bad habits from our last tanking year pretty much destroyed his career.

I think that's too involved, myself, but watching Evan Turner try to fit in with Indiana has been illuminating. Players like to win, and they're not stupid about how good/bad their teams are when compared to the rest of the league.

I'm not really sure there's a big difference between the two models so far. They traded away their all-star point guard. We kept ours out for over half the season.

[obnoxiousmime]

Nobody is going to remember these horrible losses a few years from now. Anybody who criticizes the Sixers is just upset they're not bothering with the pretense of competing and are embracing tanking. NBA fans feel more secure pretending that it's not a strategy GMs employ and public rebuke and shaming is the only method they have to try and discourage it.

I liken the Sixers to the Astros who slashed payroll down to the bone and are blatantly non-competitive in order to build as strong a farm system as possible.

Ainge was able to straddle the fence this season because of Rondo's injury, but at some point before Rondo's contract is up a decision will have to be made whether to deal him and build young or go for a win now trade. Like the year of the Oden/Durant draft, he could go either way depending on what deals are available. I believe him when he says he's not totally enamored with this year's draft but I think there are certain players who could contribute sooner that he wouldn't hesitate keeping even in a win now situation like Parker and McDermott.

[Fafnir]

They traded away their all-star point guard. We kept ours out for over half the season.

Man you've gotten some seriously sketchy all-star PGs out of the east.

Williams, Nelson, and Turner. All basically one season wonders, or in Holiday/Nelson's case 1/2 season wonders.

[clover]

Well Philly has a nice young core with Noel, Carter-Williams and the future draftee you mentioned. A decent coach too. They'll be alright in a few years.

But the C's got lucky and robbed Brooklyn of it's future to kickstart it's own. And Brad Stevens will probably be up there with thibs and pop in the coming years.

Not too biased. The losing culture thing is overblown though.

You're probably right about "losing culture" being overblown, but I just wonder if Carter-Williams is learning anything playing on a team built to lose. It doesn't look like there's any structure there based on the handful of games I've seen.

I think Brown is the perfect coach for such a young rebuild and MCW playing so many starters minutes this year has probably given him a better education than he would have received coming off the bench for another team.

[D.o.s.]

They traded away their all-star point guard. We kept ours out for over half the season.

Man you've gotten some seriously sketchy all-star PGs out of the east.

Williams, Nelson, and Turner. All basically one season wonders, or in Holiday/Nelson's case 1/2 season wonders.

Another bummer about Rose + Rondo being injured 

[LooseCannon]

The Celtics started off with a significantly better talent base and a different cap situation.  If the Celtics had looked like the 76ers in May, I would have endorsed an all-out tanking strategy.

[indeedproceed]

Boston's situation seems better for my eyes. More talent, more picks, more assets to trade, with a clearly defined 'jackpot' year in 2016

[alecmcafee]

The Celtics started off with a significantly better talent base and a different cap situation.  If the Celtics had looked like the 76ers in May, I would have endorsed an all-out tanking strategy.

I agree with this. I think both teams acted the way they should have, given each of their roster's prior to the year.

[colincb]

I don't think there is much comparison since they ended last season in far different positions.  Boston had more assets than Philadelphia and still has more assets than Philadelphia.  I have no idea what Noel will be in the NBA and I'm skeptical about MCW and other combo guards on very bad teams who have the ball in their hands a lot (see also Oladipo). Drill down into MBW's stats and they're not impressive, BUT he is a rookie.

I'd rather be in BOS's shoes.  They have much more talent and much better draft assets.  Philly does have a cap advantage in 2014, but unless they hit a large number of picks are going to have a tough time attracting elite players there.

[jaketwice]

Philly is making a huge mistake. Answer some questions:

Does Glen Davis have a career without KG and Paul Pierce's tutelage? He weighed 400lbs in college.

Does DaJuan Blair have a career if he isn't on the Spurs?

Does Jared Dudley have a career without learning from Steve Nash?

Sacramento has been trying the "no quality vets" strategy for years, and is a consistent failure. The Mavs famously drafted Kidd, Mashburn and Jim Jackson, and were terrible: that team had no one to teach those guys to win. When has Toronto had success? When quality vets like Lowry, and Jose Calderon have been there to lead the team. How was Cleveland doing with Varejao the only veteran voice?

You heard it here first: Thad Young isn't the leader Philly needs. They will be bad for years due to this strategy. I agree that the 97 season destroyed Walker. He could have been much, much better.

The Celtics will be more successful than Philly. Mark it.

[ChiefDK]

I don't think there is much comparison since they ended last season in far different positions.  Boston had more assets than Philadelphia and still has more assets than Philadelphia.  I have no idea what Noel will be in the NBA and I'm skeptical about MCW and other combo guards on very bad teams who have the ball in their hands a lot (see also Oladipo). Drill down into MBW's stats and they're not impressive, BUT he is a rookie.

I'd rather be in BOS's shoes.  They have much more talent and much better draft assets.  Philly does have a cap advantage in 2014, but unless they hit a large number of picks are going to have a tough time attracting elite players there.

We're on the same page here. I don't think MCW is all he's cracked up to be, and I think he's learning some bad habits offensively. But we'll see.