Talib to Broncos

[Fafnir]

I'm interested to see exactly how the salary portion is paid out in regards to the cap hits..  I have to imagine the Broncos back loaded it.

They had $20 million in cap room, so not necessarily.

[Snakehead]

I find it odd there is so much talk about how that's overpaying.  That's the market.  I'm a Colts fan and they just payed Vontae Davis basically 10 mill a year, that's just what you have to pay a top level corner right now.  If you don't want one, okay sure, be my guest.

It's basically the NFL equivalent on everyone on this board saying every 7 footer with any talent getting 10 million per year is overpaid.  That's just the reality of the market for a certain level of play at a certain position.  Hopefully you can consistently draft young stud corner prospects or you are going to have to pay one at some point.

I think Talib is a fantastic player and would have been happy with him on that contract on my team.  It's a major loss.  Revis would obviously fill that position but guess what kind of money he will be making?

Ouch. That stings.
But broncos are paying lottery money for him given injury history.

yea but its 25 mil guranteed... gotta love how the nfl structures contracts... they can literally cut him after 3 years if he does not live up to contract

Yeah that's overlooked now when people criticize some contracts.  There are outs on all these contracts now if injuries or issues come up.

Not sure, but I'm thinking that maybe the problem some people have with paying Talib that much isn't the amount of money, but the fact that he seems injury prone. If I felt reasonably sure that Talib would stay on the field all season every season, sure I'd pay him a bunch, because he's really good, but to pay that much when the guy might very well play only half the team's games (and get injured every postseason)? No, thanks.

I get that he has had some issues but there are outs on these contracts now.  That's why we always talk guaranteed money in them.

If your team doesn't have a good CB, it's an issue.  You don't get one for nothing.  Sometimes you have to pay.  I guess the Pats haven't been doing that on the defensive side of the ball though and I think it has showed, but hey, we will see what happens this time around.

[kozlodoev]

Word is the Pats are front-runners for Revis. We'll see.

My excitement is largely tempered by likely cost.

Perhaps, but you almost have to sign him because going into the season with Dennard and Arrington as your starting CBs is a recipe for disaster.

$16 per season is steep, but if you're going to pay $10 million per season for a CB, you're better off doing it for Revis rather than Talib,  I guess.

[Donoghus]

I'm interested to see exactly how the salary portion is paid out in regards to the cap hits..  I have to imagine the Broncos back loaded it.

They had $20 million in cap room, so not necessarily.

Possibly.  Although, if they're gonna make a run at Ware, they would've probably attempted to backload it.  Depending on how they structured the annual salary portion, they could be looking at roughly a $13.8 cap hit with Talib for next year (My guess is that it'll actually come up lower).  That might not leave them enough room to make a run at Ware plus address other needs.

[kozlodoev]

I'm interested to see exactly how the salary portion is paid out in regards to the cap hits..  I have to imagine the Broncos back loaded it.

They had $20 million in cap room, so not necessarily.

Possibly.  Although, if they're gonna make a run at Ware, they would've probably attempted to backload it.  Depending on how they structured the annual salary portion, they could be looking at roughly a $13.8 cap hit with Talib for next year (My guess is that it'll actually come up lower).  That might not leave them enough room to make a run at Ware plus address other needs.

For what it's worth, Revis' cap hit next year is $13 million, and reportedly he can be had for a fifth-round pick.

[Donoghus]

Word is the Pats are front-runners for Revis. We'll see.

My excitement is largely tempered by likely cost.

Perhaps, but you almost have to sign him because going into the season with Dennard and Arrington as your starting CBs is a recipe for disaster.

$16 per season is steep, but if you're going to pay $10 million per season for a CB, you're better off doing it for Revis rather than Talib,  I guess.

$13 or $16?  I know his base is $13 million but I know he has a roster bonus of $1.5 then a workout bonus of $1.5.  I've been trying to figure out how a trade would impact that extra $3 million.  I'm guessing it hits the cap but can't find confirmation on it.

Either way, I'd be fine with even a one year rental of Revis at either number over Talib. 

[KGs Knee]

Sometimes I think the Patriots 'brass' takes their fans, and previous success, for granted.  In my opinion, this perceived arrogance is to their detriment.

I find the insistence to not deviate from placing specific 'value' on any given roster spot, and occasionally seek out and sign elite level players at position(s) of need to be foolhardy. Teams that are desperate to win are usually willing to go 'all in'.  The Patriots do not seem at all desperate to win, they're content.  Brady should be furious.

Also, it's a real shame they continue have the highest ticket prices in the league, but refuse to go the extra mile to put the absolute best product on the field possible.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I find it odd there is so much talk about how that's overpaying.  That's the market.  I'm a Colts fan and they just payed Vontae Davis basically 10 mill a year, that's just what you have to pay a top level corner right now.  If you don't want one, okay sure, be my guest.

It's basically the NFL equivalent on everyone on this board saying every 7 footer with any talent getting 10 million per year is overpaid.  That's just the reality of the market for a certain level of play at a certain position.  Hopefully you can consistently draft young stud corner prospects or you are going to have to pay one at some point.

I think Talib is a fantastic player and would have been happy with him on that contract on my team.  It's a major loss.  Revis would obviously fill that position but guess what kind of money he will be making?

Ouch. That stings.
But broncos are paying lottery money for him given injury history.

yea but its 25 mil guranteed... gotta love how the nfl structures contracts... they can literally cut him after 3 years if he does not live up to contract

Yeah that's overlooked now when people criticize some contracts.  There are outs on all these contracts now if injuries or issues come up.

Not sure, but I'm thinking that maybe the problem some people have with paying Talib that much isn't the amount of money, but the fact that he seems injury prone. If I felt reasonably sure that Talib would stay on the field all season every season, sure I'd pay him a bunch, because he's really good, but to pay that much when the guy might very well play only half the team's games (and get injured every postseason)? No, thanks.

I get that he has had some issues but there are outs on these contracts now.  That's why we always talk guaranteed money in them.

If your team doesn't have a good CB, it's an issue.  You don't get one for nothing.  Sometimes you have to pay.  I guess the Pats haven't been doing that on the defensive side of the ball though and I think it has showed, but hey, we will see what happens this time around.

You're right about the outs available; I hadn't thought of that. And I totally agree with you that a solid CB is needed, and that the Pats need to beef up their defense—as Koz said, Arrington ain't gonna cut it. Still, I'd prefer someone who doesn't have an extensive injury history.

[Vermont Green]

My initial reaction is that they will be better off not having paid that money due to his injury history and history of volatility (although he has been a good citizen on the Patriots).

It all depends though on what they get in place of his money.  There are alternate ways to approach this.  A better pass rush, for example, will make the non-star defensive backs look much better.  Teams are paying top dollar for CBs so maybe we can get better overall value by putting some money into the defensive line.

[kozlodoev]

Word is the Pats are front-runners for Revis. We'll see.

My excitement is largely tempered by likely cost.

Perhaps, but you almost have to sign him because going into the season with Dennard and Arrington as your starting CBs is a recipe for disaster.

$16 per season is steep, but if you're going to pay $10 million per season for a CB, you're better off doing it for Revis rather than Talib,  I guess.

$13 or $16?  I know his base is $13 million but I know he has a roster bonus of $1.5 then a workout bonus of $1.5.  I've been trying to figure out how a trade would impact that extra $3 million.  I'm guessing it hits the cap but can't find confirmation on it.

Either way, I'd be fine with even a one year rental of Revis at either number over Talib.

He's due $16 million per season, but my understanding is that the cap hit is just $13 million. I'm not that well-versed in NFL cap issues, but there seems to be some info here:

http://nesn.com/2014/03/darrelle-revis-too-costly-for-patriots-to-overspend-with-other-needs/

[Donoghus]

Sounds like Broncos got Ware too.  3 years/30 million. 20 guaranteed per Schefty. 

[D.o.s.]

Denver's trying to go for it before Peyton collapses into dust.

[kozlodoev]

Denver's trying to go for it before Peyton collapses into dust.

As should the Patriots. Brady isn't getting any younger either.

[BleedGreen1989]

Denver's trying to go for it before Peyton collapses into dust.

As should the Patriots. Brady isn't getting any younger either.

Yeah certainly frustrating to feel like the Pats are sitting on the sideline even with the money to spend.

[saltlover]

As a Broncos fan, I'm pretty pleased with these moves.  There is a very limited window -- I'll take the year of pain if Talib and Ware are still on the books and underperforming while Manning has retired if it brings a Super Bowl before that happens.  They had a ton of injuries last year on defense -- adding Ward, Talib, and Ware, plus getting back Miller, Wolfe, Vickerson, and eventually Harris is going to take the defense to another level.