Adam Silver favors raising the age limit

[D.o.s.]

You have to be 18 to play in the D-League, for the record.

[Moranis]

You have to be 18 to play in the D-League, for the record.

I know that, I believe they should remove that requirement.

[D.o.s.]

Just putting it out there for anyone having trouble following the convo.

[Eja117]

Here is my question, how does letting in players out of high school help the NBA and their teams?



It is not like the best players will not be drafter two or more years later.

They may not be drafted if they get injured in college, thus missing out on a huge payday.

This could be addressed with insurance. Also it's a little like saying accounting firms should have to hire kids out of high school because what if something happens to them in college.  They aren't owed a huge payday in and of itself

No, it's like saying accounting firms should be able to hire kids out of high school if they want to.

Ok. So say they do that and there are a ton of fudge ups on people's taxes. The firms can't agree to not hire kids that haven't been to college? They can't create an industry standard?

I think the analogy breaks down when a bunch of former fresh out of high school accountants are on their way to the Accounting Hall of Fame.

Right, but the accounting industry could still look at what had happened and decide to create standards.

Are you folks saying it would be ok to create a basketball exam to assist with licensure? 

If the standard wasn't an age, but was that they must have played either a year overseas, or a year in the NBDL, or a year in college, or junior college, would that suffice?

sure, as long as the NBDL had no age limit.

I would assume it would follow child labor laws.  I think Europe has some experience with this because they don't have college sports in the same way

Freddy Adu signed with the MLS when he was 14 (he also played in a game while still 14 making him the youngest person to ever play a professional team sport in the US). The MLS has in fact had a number of players sign well before they turned 18 (though Adu was and still is the youngest player to do so).  So you don't even need to go to Europe.

The whole Freddy Adu thing didn't really work out that well either for Freddy or the soccer world

[Moranis]

Here is my question, how does letting in players out of high school help the NBA and their teams?



It is not like the best players will not be drafter two or more years later.

They may not be drafted if they get injured in college, thus missing out on a huge payday.

This could be addressed with insurance. Also it's a little like saying accounting firms should have to hire kids out of high school because what if something happens to them in college.  They aren't owed a huge payday in and of itself

No, it's like saying accounting firms should be able to hire kids out of high school if they want to.

Ok. So say they do that and there are a ton of fudge ups on people's taxes. The firms can't agree to not hire kids that haven't been to college? They can't create an industry standard?

I think the analogy breaks down when a bunch of former fresh out of high school accountants are on their way to the Accounting Hall of Fame.

Right, but the accounting industry could still look at what had happened and decide to create standards.

Are you folks saying it would be ok to create a basketball exam to assist with licensure? 

If the standard wasn't an age, but was that they must have played either a year overseas, or a year in the NBDL, or a year in college, or junior college, would that suffice?

sure, as long as the NBDL had no age limit.

I would assume it would follow child labor laws.  I think Europe has some experience with this because they don't have college sports in the same way

Freddy Adu signed with the MLS when he was 14 (he also played in a game while still 14 making him the youngest person to ever play a professional team sport in the US). The MLS has in fact had a number of players sign well before they turned 18 (though Adu was and still is the youngest player to do so).  So you don't even need to go to Europe.

The whole Freddy Adu thing didn't really work out that well either for Freddy or the soccer world

He had a 10+ year career and played in many of the top leagues in the world.

Bobby Convey signed at 16 to the MLS 14 years ago and is still playing in the MLS.  Santino Quaranta started like a bat out of hell when he was 16 in the MLS, but was unfortunately beset with injuries, though did end up with a 10 year career in the MLS. 

Jozy Altidore, one of if not the best current American, started in the MLS at 16.  Eddie Johnson (also a top tier American) started in the MLS just after his 17th birthday.  Michael Bradley and Demarcus Beasley, were both under 18 when they started in the MLS. 

There are countless other players with long time careers and multiple national team appearances who began their MLS careers before their 18th birthdays. 

[D.o.s.]

Landon Donovan springs to mind first, although he's a little different, as an American who signed overseas.

[Eja117]

Here is my question, how does letting in players out of high school help the NBA and their teams?



It is not like the best players will not be drafter two or more years later.

They may not be drafted if they get injured in college, thus missing out on a huge payday.

This could be addressed with insurance. Also it's a little like saying accounting firms should have to hire kids out of high school because what if something happens to them in college.  They aren't owed a huge payday in and of itself

No, it's like saying accounting firms should be able to hire kids out of high school if they want to.

Ok. So say they do that and there are a ton of fudge ups on people's taxes. The firms can't agree to not hire kids that haven't been to college? They can't create an industry standard?

I think the analogy breaks down when a bunch of former fresh out of high school accountants are on their way to the Accounting Hall of Fame.

Right, but the accounting industry could still look at what had happened and decide to create standards.

Are you folks saying it would be ok to create a basketball exam to assist with licensure? 

If the standard wasn't an age, but was that they must have played either a year overseas, or a year in the NBDL, or a year in college, or junior college, would that suffice?

sure, as long as the NBDL had no age limit.

I would assume it would follow child labor laws.  I think Europe has some experience with this because they don't have college sports in the same way

Freddy Adu signed with the MLS when he was 14 (he also played in a game while still 14 making him the youngest person to ever play a professional team sport in the US). The MLS has in fact had a number of players sign well before they turned 18 (though Adu was and still is the youngest player to do so).  So you don't even need to go to Europe.

The whole Freddy Adu thing didn't really work out that well either for Freddy or the soccer world

He had a 10+ year career and played in many of the top leagues in the world.

Bobby Convey signed at 16 to the MLS 14 years ago and is still playing in the MLS.  Santino Quaranta started like a bat out of hell when he was 16 in the MLS, but was unfortunately beset with injuries, though did end up with a 10 year career in the MLS. 

Jozy Altidore, one of if not the best current American, started in the MLS at 16.  Eddie Johnson (also a top tier American) started in the MLS just after his 17th birthday.  Michael Bradley and Demarcus Beasley, were both under 18 when they started in the MLS. 

There are countless other players with long time careers and multiple national team appearances who began their MLS careers before their 18th birthdays.

What happens when they injure themselves 3 years into their career and can't play anymore and don't a high school diploma? Do they go back to high school 3 years behind their peers and then not qualify for an NCAA scholarship because they made money?

[sofutomygaha]

Can we stop tossing names out there as though they prove a point? Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Freddy Adu. Maybe Freddy Adu's high school coach would have molded him to become the next Pele. Maybe his college coach would have shot him in the chest. If you're really interested in whether things would have been better or worse for that guy, you don't have any way of knowing. You can't point to a successful player and infer that he would have been more or less successful the other way around.

You have a 100-year-old uncle who smoked a pack a day. That doesn't mean smoking is a good system.

Jordan played three years of college and became the greatest that ever lived. That doesn't mean college is a good system.

The fact of the matter is, this is an argument about principle, not about quality of play. NBA GMs will make the most entertaining product they can with the pool of personnel available. The quality of that product can only go down when you restrict the pool.

[sofutomygaha]

Here's a proposal for Adam Silver:

1. Make a revenue sharing deal with the NCAA
2. Raise the NBA minimum age to 26 and require players to have PhDs in basketball theory.

Seven more years of lucrative basketball entertainment per player at the low-low price of free, and the NBA only employs certified basketball experts. The quality of play will be fantastic! Think of the fundamentals! Huge win-win, right?

...and some day we can look back at the best player from the PhD era and say "See? The system didn't hurt HIS career!"

[Moranis]

Here is my question, how does letting in players out of high school help the NBA and their teams?



It is not like the best players will not be drafter two or more years later.

They may not be drafted if they get injured in college, thus missing out on a huge payday.

This could be addressed with insurance. Also it's a little like saying accounting firms should have to hire kids out of high school because what if something happens to them in college.  They aren't owed a huge payday in and of itself

No, it's like saying accounting firms should be able to hire kids out of high school if they want to.

Ok. So say they do that and there are a ton of fudge ups on people's taxes. The firms can't agree to not hire kids that haven't been to college? They can't create an industry standard?

I think the analogy breaks down when a bunch of former fresh out of high school accountants are on their way to the Accounting Hall of Fame.

Right, but the accounting industry could still look at what had happened and decide to create standards.

Are you folks saying it would be ok to create a basketball exam to assist with licensure? 

If the standard wasn't an age, but was that they must have played either a year overseas, or a year in the NBDL, or a year in college, or junior college, would that suffice?

sure, as long as the NBDL had no age limit.

I would assume it would follow child labor laws.  I think Europe has some experience with this because they don't have college sports in the same way

Freddy Adu signed with the MLS when he was 14 (he also played in a game while still 14 making him the youngest person to ever play a professional team sport in the US). The MLS has in fact had a number of players sign well before they turned 18 (though Adu was and still is the youngest player to do so).  So you don't even need to go to Europe.

The whole Freddy Adu thing didn't really work out that well either for Freddy or the soccer world

He had a 10+ year career and played in many of the top leagues in the world.

Bobby Convey signed at 16 to the MLS 14 years ago and is still playing in the MLS.  Santino Quaranta started like a bat out of hell when he was 16 in the MLS, but was unfortunately beset with injuries, though did end up with a 10 year career in the MLS. 

Jozy Altidore, one of if not the best current American, started in the MLS at 16.  Eddie Johnson (also a top tier American) started in the MLS just after his 17th birthday.  Michael Bradley and Demarcus Beasley, were both under 18 when they started in the MLS. 

There are countless other players with long time careers and multiple national team appearances who began their MLS careers before their 18th birthdays.

What happens when they injure themselves 3 years into their career and can't play anymore and don't a high school diploma? Do they go back to high school 3 years behind their peers and then not qualify for an NCAA scholarship because they made money?

they have tutors while playing, they get their GED, they do the same things child actors do or people who drop out for non-work reasons (which are a lot).  Or they do something else.  What happens when the construction worker slips a disc and can't work?  What happens when the computer technician breaks his hand?  What happens when a teacher is in a car accident and becomes mentally deficient?  Or countless other things.  At least in the case of the professional athlete they theoretically have a nice little nest egg available, including the very nice pensions that professional leagues have. 

[wdleehi]

Can we stop tossing names out there as though they prove a point? Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Freddy Adu. Maybe Freddy Adu's high school coach would have molded him to become the next Pele. Maybe his college coach would have shot him in the chest. If you're really interested in whether things would have been better or worse for that guy, you don't have any way of knowing. You can't point to a successful player and infer that he would have been more or less successful the other way around.

You have a 100-year-old uncle who smoked a pack a day. That doesn't mean smoking is a good system.

Jordan played three years of college and became the greatest that ever lived. That doesn't mean college is a good system.

The fact of the matter is, this is an argument about principle, not about quality of play. NBA GMs will make the most entertaining product they can with the pool of personnel available. The quality of that product can only go down when you restrict the pool.

The pool is only down for a season or two as the player age catch back up.


After that, the pool is the same except for more training before they start. 


Same talents.  More training before they enter the league.  More time to scout. 


I still don't see the drawback for the NBA.

[D.o.s.]

Can we stop tossing names out there as though they prove a point? Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Freddy Adu. Maybe Freddy Adu's high school coach would have molded him to become the next Pele. Maybe his college coach would have shot him in the chest. If you're really interested in whether things would have been better or worse for that guy, you don't have any way of knowing. You can't point to a successful player and infer that he would have been more or less successful the other way around.

You have a 100-year-old uncle who smoked a pack a day. That doesn't mean smoking is a good system.

Jordan played three years of college and became the greatest that ever lived. That doesn't mean college is a good system.

The fact of the matter is, this is an argument about principle, not about quality of play. NBA GMs will make the most entertaining product they can with the pool of personnel available. The quality of that product can only go down when you restrict the pool.

The pool is only down for a season or two as the player age catch back up.


After that, the pool is the same except for more training before they start. 


Same talents.  More training before they enter the league.  More time to scout. 


I still don't see the drawback for the NBA.

For the league, there isn't a drawback. It makes perfect sense why they would want to champion it.

As a fan of the athletes first and foremost, though, I can't support that idea on it's face without some of the adjustments that we've been bandying about.

[CFAN38]

With all these pages of posts about this I wasnt able to read thru all of it. My short feeling on this are as follows.

1.Raising the Age will improve the actual game in the NBA. To many teams have young underdeveloped projects taking up roster spots that could go to guys who have less potential but are ready to play.

2. The league needs to truly have a minor league. Kids should be able to declare and be drafted by franchises after the age of 18 but not take a roster spot or get full nba pay till 20. example would be that the Cs draft a 18yr old with there first round pick. He signs a minor league contract for 50% of his first round pay that expires the season during which he turns 20. So if he turns 20 on dec 13th of 2016 he is eligible for 2016 season. After he becomes nba eligible he starts his rookie contract.

3. To implement rule 2 ever team must have their own D-league team. D-league rosters should be made up of sub 20 signed players and 5 protected d-league players. A protected D-leaguer has his rights held by the nba franchise and that team has the right to match any nba offer given to that player during the life of the deal. This would allow team to bring guys in during training camp, not sign them to main roster, sign them to d-league and have some protection from other teams signing them.

4. With these changes the NBA could start highlighting key match ups of up and coming players in the D-league. Much like the NCAA does with its one and done stars. 

[wdleehi]

Can we stop tossing names out there as though they prove a point? Larry Bird, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Freddy Adu. Maybe Freddy Adu's high school coach would have molded him to become the next Pele. Maybe his college coach would have shot him in the chest. If you're really interested in whether things would have been better or worse for that guy, you don't have any way of knowing. You can't point to a successful player and infer that he would have been more or less successful the other way around.

You have a 100-year-old uncle who smoked a pack a day. That doesn't mean smoking is a good system.

Jordan played three years of college and became the greatest that ever lived. That doesn't mean college is a good system.

The fact of the matter is, this is an argument about principle, not about quality of play. NBA GMs will make the most entertaining product they can with the pool of personnel available. The quality of that product can only go down when you restrict the pool.

The pool is only down for a season or two as the player age catch back up.


After that, the pool is the same except for more training before they start. 


Same talents.  More training before they enter the league.  More time to scout. 


I still don't see the drawback for the NBA.

For the league, there isn't a drawback. It makes perfect sense why they would want to champion it.

As a fan of the athletes first and foremost, though, I can't support that idea on it's face without some of the adjustments that we've been bandying about.

I am sure the player union will negotiate this.  I can see players being able to get their first contract after the rookie deal sooner. 

[sofutomygaha]

The pool is only down for a season or two as the player age catch back up.

After that, the pool is the same except for more training before they start. 

Same talents.  More training before they enter the league.  More time to scout. 

I still don't see the drawback for the NBA.

We agree on one thing, wdleehi, which is that there's no drawback for the nba. If the NBA had a competitor, there would be, but that's not the world we live in. There's also no drawback for the current players, who would get a boost in job security.

The pool is not the same, though, and that false equivalence is one of the big reasons that people don't see what's wrong with this. In any given year, there are about 30 rookies under the age of 20 who are deemed worthy of a roster spot. That means that in any given year (not just the first year), the pool of present-quality NBA players will be smaller by 30 under Silver's plan.