Author Topic: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?  (Read 10490 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 02:57:56 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
I want whichever method involves Ainge making a trade that, in hindsight, is an insane case of robbing another team.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 03:24:19 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
I prefer plan B of the three choices, but I also like rosters with some consistency to them, which I don't think is possible.

I used to be more of a "build from the ground up" guy, because that's what I knew from the mid-1980s Cs teams. But it took me about half a season to fall in love with the KG/Pierce/Allen team.

I will say though that looking back if I could pick between winning in year 1 of the last Big Three era, and winning in year 3, I would pick year 3. I was much more connected to those guys by then.

Yeah, as blasphemous as it sounds I think a victory in 2010 would've meant more to me than 2008 did.

That 2010 playoff run meant more to me than the '08 run, in large part because I was much more invested in the team by that point.

However, I can never fully embrace that 2010 team because they made me hate them during the regular season before I could love them.  So up and down and seemingly apathetic a lot of the time.

I'd say the overachieving (and lucky) 2012 team was probably my favorite.  They fell short -- as they ought to have -- but I was wholly satisfied with that playoff run.  In retrospect I kind of wish Ainge had blown it up after that, or that KG had retired.  Go out on a high note.  In my mind I tend to just skip over the '12-'13 season.  What an awful year.

I don't know whether the 2012 team was my favorite overall, but Pierce drilling that 3 in Lebron's face might be my favorite single moment of the entire era.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 05:29:29 PM »

Offline dark_lord

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8808
  • Tommy Points: 1126

Quote
A. Bring in vets, cash in the assets to try to get back into contention ASAP.

this.

in this day of free agency, it is tough to rebuild a title contender thru the draft.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 05:36:54 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I want whichever method involves Ainge making a trade that, in hindsight, is an insane case of robbing another team.

http://www.nba.com/nets/news/nets-acquire-nba-champions-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-and-jason-terry
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 09:19:29 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182

Quote
A. Bring in vets, cash in the assets to try to get back into contention ASAP.

this.

in this day of free agency, it is tough to rebuild a title contender thru the draft.


Yet you don't see many teams rebuilding entirely via this method, either.

Typically it's a mix of both.  Teams build up young assets through the draft first, and then make moves for veterans when they feel they are within striking distance.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2014, 10:03:31 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
The best rebuild is a brief one.

  Yeah, I don't see what would be overly entertaining about being bad for a long time.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2014, 10:59:04 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Al Horford
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257

Quote
A. Bring in vets, cash in the assets to try to get back into contention ASAP.

this.

in this day of free agency, it is tough to rebuild a title contender thru the draft.


Yet you don't see many teams rebuilding entirely via this method, either.

Typically it's a mix of both.  Teams build up young assets through the draft first, and then make moves for veterans when they feel they are within striking distance.

The draft, though...not many players are more than perhaps role players while on their rookie deals.  Occasionally they are, and that's wonderful, since it keeps so much of the cap available to add talent.

And adding talent gets easier and cheaper as a team continues to stockpile talent and more talented players shun money to win.

So I'd be pretty willing to overpay for the next star piece to go with Rondo, but I do value a few of our player smore than most.  I do like the way Sully, with his great hands, and Green are starting to play with Rondo.  I'm not in a hurry to give up Green.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 02:54:40 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777

Quote
A. Bring in vets, cash in the assets to try to get back into contention ASAP.

this.

in this day of free agency, it is tough to rebuild a title contender thru the draft.
Based on what?

OKC and SA were clearly built through the draft. CHI has dealt with the injuries to Rose leading their performance to not meet expectations since their years at the top of the league, but their top 2 players (Rose, Noah) the last few years were drafted. The Pacers drafted their 2 main cogs, Hibbert and George.

Interestingly, the Pacers are the only team of the 3 that did it without a clear star player pick.

Miami drafted Wade (who happened to also get a title pre-Lebron). LA got Kobe through the draft inasmuch as they supposedly already had a deal in place to trade for that pick before the actual draft took place (http://www.journalnow.com/archives/article_e7a4ddee-ed8d-5be1-9b81-723b924628ec.html).

In fact, what recent champion didn't have a future hall of famer on their roster that they either acquired through the draft or had another team pick on their behalf as part of a trade to be later consumated?

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 10:21:30 AM »

Offline cb8883

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 777
  • Tommy Points: 52
This answer is VERY EASY. The correct answer is C. Finish blowing it up. Danny did this half way and the result is that we are not bad enough for a top 3 pick which will most likely bring the Celtics their next franchise player. Rondo should be beyond gone as we don't need our new superstar learning bad habits. Ditto with Bass etc...

Do the right thing Danny. BLOW IT UP!!!

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 10:56:37 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
This answer is VERY EASY. The correct answer is C. Finish blowing it up. Danny did this half way and the result is that we are not bad enough for a top 3 pick which will most likely bring the Celtics their next franchise player. Rondo should be beyond gone as we don't need our new superstar learning bad habits. Ditto with Bass etc...

Do the right thing Danny. BLOW IT UP!!!
When is the last time a team that blew it up won a championship?
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2014, 12:44:16 PM »

Offline bdm860

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
  • Tommy Points: 4625
This answer is VERY EASY. The correct answer is C. Finish blowing it up. Danny did this half way and the result is that we are not bad enough for a top 3 pick which will most likely bring the Celtics their next franchise player. Rondo should be beyond gone as we don't need our new superstar learning bad habits. Ditto with Bass etc...

Do the right thing Danny. BLOW IT UP!!!
When is the last time a team that blew it up won a championship?

Last year?

Possibly Miami, OKC, or Indiana this year?

I don’t know, what does blowing it up mean to you?  Really I think all 3 of those teams blew it up around the 2007-08 season.  Seattle got rid of their 2 best players Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis (even though Lewis left via free agency, I heard they wanted him to leave, makes sense too considering Sam Presti was in charge), Miami got rid of every veteran from that ’06 championship team and didn’t try to reload with talent, and Indiana got rid of everybody but a young Danny Granger from their 2006 team that people thought might contend a year removed from the Malice in the Palace.
 
I would say all 3 of those teams blew up playoff teams to rebuild, and only Indiana tried to stay somewhat competitive while they did it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 01:10:11 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2014, 12:58:35 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

  • NCE
  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14061
  • Tommy Points: 1239
Indiana didn't blow it up by choice, though  - they had a likely championship team undone by suspensions courtesy of the Malice at the Palace.

Miami didn't truly blow it up ala cb8883's model - they hung on to Wade, rather than trading him for assets. Doesn't jive with the "Rondo should be beyond gone" attitude he's approaching the idea of a ground-zero rebuild with.

OKC hasn't won jack, and has an ownership group that's so stingy they may never win anything (see: Harden, James, trade of). They're the only team that really "blew it up" according to his model, and they're 0-1 in the Finals.


Hardly compelling evidence that we MUST TANK AS HARD AS POSSIBLE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS DELUDED.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2014, 10:20:42 PM »

Offline LilRip

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6987
  • Tommy Points: 411
I would take option 2.

All 3 options are risky, and I don't think that one is necessarily superior over the other, but in terms of payoff, I think option 2 has the most longevity. However, you'd need a generational talent to pull it off. In my mind, here are some examples of each option:

1 - Celtics (cash in on KG & RA), Nets (cash in on KG and PP), Knicks (cash in on Stat and Melo)
2 - Lakers (Kobe era post Shaq), Mavs (Dirk era), Spurs (Duncan era post Robinson), Bulls (current), Cavs (Lebron era), Nuggets (Melo era), Wolves (KG era)
3 - Heat (current) Thunder (current), Jazz (current), Pacers (current), sixers (current), magic (current), Wolves (current)
- LilRip

Re: As a fan what form of rebuild in more entertaining / preferred?
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2014, 02:22:08 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2274
  • Tommy Points: 177
  • Ruto Must Go!
I reckon the real detrminant is how well Danny pulls of whetever strategy he opts for rather than the strategy itself.
Ruto Must Go!