Author Topic: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason  (Read 12407 times)

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Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2014, 09:24:40 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Is this some sort of joke? Why would any NBA team give Isiah Thomas a GM job again? That's insane.

The Pistons have nothing attractive to me in a Rondo trade anyway. Drummond would be nice but only paired with Rondo.

Isn't Drummond doing just fine without Rondo? Drummond is one of the most untouchable players in the NBA.
It's just that.....the owners feel Isiah has better chance of retaining Drummond on the team in the long run.......
Until Lakers decide they want him....put the wheels I motion in his head ...then he forces a trade to land in LA.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2014, 10:25:13 AM »

Offline RebusRankin

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This is all just a ploy to get Simmons to do a bad gm summit article again isn't it?

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2014, 11:41:02 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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believe it when I see it.  too much track record to believe IT would ever be a GM candidate for any team

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2014, 12:47:46 PM »

Offline bdm860

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Honestly, I don’t think Thomas is THAT bad as a GM.  At least I think he’s a pretty decent evaluator of talent.

As Toronto GM:
Drafted Damon Stoudamire #7 in 1995.  Rookie of the year, and look at who was drafted #6, #8, #9?  Plenty of bad moves that could have been made there.

Drafted Marcus Camby #2 in 1996 (obviously though missed a lot of talent behind Camby).  Didn't  ML Carr say he was trying to trade up to #1 for Camby though...

Drafted Tracy McGrady #9 in 1997, would go on to become the 2nd best player in that draft.

To me, he basically hit 2 homeruns, and a solid single with his 3 lottery picks in Toronto.

Also made several minor trades that didn’t do much one way or the other (but traded for a young Doug Christie, who was able to break out in Toronto).  No bad trades IMO.

Overall looked like a pretty capable GM in Toronto.  They definitely achieved success quicker than Vancouver did, and were always better than Vancouver during Thomas’s reign.

Now with the Knicks:
Drafted Trevor Ariza #43 in 2004.

Drafted Channing Frye #8 in 2005 (although missed on Andrew Bynum #10 here, Danny Granger #18 was still on the board too).

Drafted David Lee #30 in 2005.

Drafted Renaldo Balkman #20 in 2006 (Rondo was #21).  Now a lot of people may disagree with  me, but I always liked Balkman, definitely the kind of a guy I would take a chance on at #20.  Sure missed out on Rondo, but so did a lot of GMs.  Balkman had an average to above average career for a guy picked in that range IMO.

Drafted Wilson Chandler #23 in 2007.

Overall to me, that’s a pretty outstanding draft record.


Now on the trade parts, I really only think Thomas made one really bad trade, and that was trading firsts (or the right to swap firsts) in 2006 and 2007, which ended up being the #2 (Lamarcus Aldridge) and #9 (Joakim Noah), for Eddy Curry.

He made other trades were terrible for New York’s cap position, but he wasn’t necessarily getting terrible players back, just players that were terrible fits.

On the signing part, I think he made only one terrible signing, and that was giving Jerome James $30m/5yrs after only one good playoff series.

So basically, I think Isiah Thomas is overrated as a terrible GM, and actually a pretty decent evaluator of rookie talent.  Terrible at cap management.  Also while not bad at getting individual pieces, bad at getting pieces that fit together nicely.

Personally, I think there's many GM's worse than Thomas.

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Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2014, 12:48:35 PM »

Offline elcotte

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tell isiah I will offer our 2016 and 2017 2nd round draft picks for drummond

Better yet, let's offer him our third round picks.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2014, 09:15:44 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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How can you be a worse GM than Isiah Thomas? He had the league's highest payroll and locked up their cap for years and years all for a lottery team. He also traded away multiple premium picks for the privilege of getting those scorers bloating his payroll.

The idea that only the Eddie Curry trade was "bad" is curious. Steve Francis, Marbury, Jalen Rose, etc etc. His plan was to load up with scorers and go super big, as the league was getting smaller too...

He made the fit bad.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 09:24:45 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Personally, I think there's many GM's worse than Thomas.
Care to name them?

He traded for Jalen Rose, taking on 34 mlllion while doing so. He traded two premium picks for the right to give Eddie Curry a huge contract. He traded Trevor Ariza (one of your hits) for Francis. He traded two more first round picks for Marbury and his massive contract AND for Penny Hardaway's massive contract.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2014, 09:35:28 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Kurt Helin has a report out that the Piston's are denying any interest in Thomas.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2014, 09:40:40 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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He has ran several other teams in the ground.   I can't see this as true unless they are going tank mode next year.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2014, 09:47:00 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Personally, I think there's many GM's worse than Thomas.
Care to name them?

He traded for Jalen Rose, taking on 34 mlllion while doing so. He traded two premium picks for the right to give Eddie Curry a huge contract. He traded Trevor Ariza (one of your hits) for Francis. He traded two more first round picks for Marbury and his massive contract AND for Penny Hardaway's massive contract.

Elgin Baylor might be the only other GM in the discussion. 

Don't forget Jerome James & Jared Jefferies when it comes to IT.


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Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2014, 09:52:42 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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Old article from 2007 - but there are some pretty sweet moves in here...

http://voices.yahoo.com/top-10-worst-moves-york-knicks-gm-isiah-thomas-679216.html?cat=14


10. Signing Vin Baker - In the mid 1990s, Baker was one of the top players in the game. He made four straight All-Star teams and twice averaged over 20 points per game. But the lockout season was a turning point for Baker. His weight ballooned to 300 pounds and he developed a problem with alcohol. He was a liability rather than a star. With the Knicks over the salary cap, Isiah Thomas used the team's mid-level exemption on Baker, hoping to get a dominant inside presence. Baker averaged 1.4 points per game in 24 games before being traded for Maurice Taylor, a player with an even bigger contract who couldn't even crack the team's rotation on a regular basis.

9. Signing Jared Jeffries - The Knicks were a poor defensive team, which must have driven Larry Brown, a defensive-minded coach if there ever was one, crazy. So, Isiah Thomas used his exemption to sign Jared Jeffries. The team then drafted Renaldo Balkman, a player with the identical skill set to Jeffries, and then Jeffries got hurt. Oh, and they got rid of Larry Brown. Jeffries averaged 4.1 points per game last year and has no role on this year's team. And they have him for three more seasons after this one.

8. Signing Jerome James - Bolstered by the success of the Vin Baker signing, Isiah Thomas inked Jerome James to a free agent contract with the club's exemption. James was notorious for being an under-achiever throughout his career. He finally played up to his ability in the final year of his contract - imagine that - and he still managed just 4.9 PPG and 3.0 RPG before signing with the Knicks. Shortly after signing James, Isiah Thomas swung the Eddy Curry deal, making James redundant. But that was okay, as James got hurt and has played in just 85 games the past two seasons. James hasn't played this season and underwent foot surgery in November. And the Knicks have him for two more seasons after this one.

7. Trading Kurt Thomas - Kurt Thomas did whatever he was asked to do. He could play defense, rebound and score. And despite being only 6'7, Thomas frequently played center and held his own against players who had five inches and 50 pounds on him. Isiah Thomas dealt him for Quentin Richardson and the rights to Nate Robinson. Richardson has been a disappointment, even when healthy and while Robinson brings toughness to the team, he's a defensive liability and is wildly inconsistent night to night.

6. Hiring Lenny Wilkens After letting Don Chaney twist in the wind, Isiah Thomas finally fired him and replaced him with Lenny Wilkens. A Hall of Fame player and at one point a fine coach, Wilkens finished his two previous coaching gigs on dismal notes. He posted a 28-54 record with the Hawks and was 24-58 with the Raptors. He was well on his way to duplicating those marks with the Knicks when he was fired with a 17-22 mark.

5. Not protecting lottery picks on Eddy Curry deal - The Chicago Bulls decided to trade Eddy Curry because he would not submit to DNA testing on his heart. According to an AP report, the Bulls were worried that Curry's "genetic makeup leaves him susceptible to cardiomyopathy, a heart condition that combined with arrhythmia, could prove fatal." Isiah Thomas traded three players, three draft picks and the right to swap first-round picks in 2007 to get Curry. But the picks were not lottery protected, a standard condition of trades involving draft picks. The Knicks ended up trading the number two pick in the 2006 draft and swapping the number nine pick for the number 23 pick in 2007. Curry had a nice season last year, but the loss of the number two overall pick and the ninth overall pick in back-to-back drafts has been huge, especially for a player with a major medical condition.

4. Trading for Steve Francis - - The Knicks already had an undersized, shoot-first, no defense playing, malcontent point guard in Stephon Marbury. So, Isiah Thomas opted to trade for his exact double when he sent the expiring contract of Hardaway and promising youngster Trevor Ariza for Francis and his massive contract. Francis was predictably unhappy on the Knicks, saw limited playing time and was eventually dumped. The only silver lining was that this move caused the franchise minimal damage. But it cost $15 million in just 2006-07 alone and never had a chance in hell of working out.

3. Everything revolving around Larry Brown - After the dismal selection of Lenny Wilkens, the Knicks and Isiah Thomas apparently hit a home run with the signing of Larry Brown to be the team's coach. But Brown and Isiah Thomas did not see eye-to-eye and Brown was his usual cantankerous self. The Knicks had a dreadful season under Brown and did not allow him to stay around to right the ship, like he had done after bad starts in San Antonio, where he went from 21 wins to 56 wins the following season, and Philadelphia, where he went from a .378 winning percentage to a .560 winning percentage the next year. Oh, and this is when Isiah Thomas became coach, allowing him to kill the Knicks in two different capacities.

2. Trading for Stephon Marbury - Isiah Thomas put the Knicks deeper in salary cap hell in order to acquire Marbury. He dealt four players, the rights to another and two first-round draft picks for Marbury, Penny Hardaway and Cezary Trybanski. The Knicks were already massively over the salary cap and adding the bloated contracts of Marbury and Hardaway made this worse. Marbury had been on three teams prior to the Knicks and none of those teams had won anything, a trend continued for Marbury in Gotham. Oh yeah, the Knicks also gave up the team's first-round pick in 2004 and a pick that has yet to be determined. The pick was protected (see, Isiah Thomas was aware of the concept!) in the top 24 for the 2007 draft; it is top 23 protected for 2008; top 22 protected for 2009; and unprotected for 2010. This deal killed the Knicks in salary, performance and draft picks - no easy feat!

1. Sexually harassing a team employee - The Knicks hold a special place in my heart but in the end, it's only basketball. But when Isiah Thomas was found guilty of making unwanted advances and verbally insulting team Vice President of Marketing and Business Operations Anucha Browne Sanders, his shortcomings take on a totally different dimension. It's one thing to be a bad executive but it's another thing entirely to be a rotten human being. We now know that Isiah Thomas is both.

It will be a great day for Knicks fans everywhere when Isiah Thomas is fired. May it come sooner rather than later.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 10:10:03 AM by TwinTower14 »

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2014, 10:07:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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TwinTower14, please cite the source when you cut and paste and article like that.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2014, 10:10:30 AM »

Offline TwinTower14

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TwinTower14, please cite the source when you cut and paste and article like that.

sorry about that - just fixed it

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2014, 10:55:36 AM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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tell isiah I will offer our 2016 and 2017 2nd round draft picks for drummond

Nah, Isiah only takes overpriced vets for his valuable assets. Gerald Wallace and Jeff Green for Drummond and a future first.

Re: Rumor - Isiah Thomas front-runner to replace Dumars this offseason
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2014, 11:31:15 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Personally, I think there's many GM's worse than Thomas.
Care to name them?

He traded for Jalen Rose, taking on 34 mlllion while doing so. He traded two premium picks for the right to give Eddie Curry a huge contract. He traded Trevor Ariza (one of your hits) for Francis. He traded two more first round picks for Marbury and his massive contract AND for Penny Hardaway's massive contract.

Elgin Baylor might be the only other GM in the discussion. 

Don't forget Jerome James & Jared Jefferies when it comes to IT.
Baylor wasn't a bad GM at all, I truly believe the vast majority of his issues were all Donald Sterling related. 
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