Danny wants to build around rondo, green,sully (rumor)

[sofutomygaha]

I don't buy that Ainge wants to build around any of them, just as I don't buy that any team wants to build around three players.

GMs want to build around one great player. Every one of them. There's basically three teams with a shot at a title this year: Miami, OKC and Indiana. They each have one of the three best players in the league.

I buy that Ainge intends to keep Rondo and Sully from the current team, over others currently on the roster. Green, not so much.

I also know that Ainge would trade any of them -- or indeed all of them -- to get a franchise player.

Now that is some grade A overblown Paul George jock riding right there.

I think you could also make the case that as many contenders are actually built around not one and not three but TWO great players. Griffin and Paul are the two tentpoles that the Clippers built their team around. The Rockets are designed to fit around Harden and Howard.

Besides Oklahoma City, what teams do you see as actually having been built up around one indispensable player? Minnesota? New York? Maybe Portland? You can't really make that case about Miami unless you think it's built around Dwyane Wade.

[Tr1boy]

Cant see danny giving rondo the max.
He sb traded latest by draft night

[mmmmm]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

[D.o.s.]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

That's interesting.


In other news, Rondo's Drtg in 2006-2007 was 103. That dropped to 98 in 2008. I think we can figure out why. It climbed back to the hundreds for every year after that, (aside from 11-12) hitting 103 in 2009-2010 and 12-13.

His Drtg (small sample size of 9 games) currently sits at 103.

as an aside: His defensive win shares have also declined every year since KG's knee injury.

I know BballTim is fond of bringing up Rondo's all-defense awards, but my suspicion is that any defensive accolades for Rondo are squarely in the past tense, and help us evaluate his play in the present about as much as you might infer.

Which is really what I mean by "wait and see if Rondo's a good defender." A good/willing defender moving forward.

[Tr1boy]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

You need to take off your rondo goggles. You think he does nothing wrong

[Surferdad]

I came to this thread because the title humored me. Something that is not surprising, perhaps even obvious, is being called a rumor. I guess everything is a rumor at some level. 

[D.o.s.]

fun fact: Rondo goggles are like beer goggles but all the attractive people wherever you are start appear to have massive hands and wear green headbands.

buyer beware.

[BballTim]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

That's interesting.


In other news, Rondo's Drtg in 2006-2007 was 103. That dropped to 98 in 2008. I think we can figure out why. It climbed back to the hundreds for every year after that, (aside from 11-12) hitting 103 in 2009-2010 and 12-13.

His Drtg (small sample size of 9 games) currently sits at 103.

as an aside: His defensive win shares have also declined every year since KG's knee injury.

  Look at Rondo's numbers in the years since KG's knee injury, among point guards with 100+ games and 20+ minutes a game. He has the lowest overall DRtg, the highest amount of DWS and the highest rate of DWS/minute played. Also, check out the playoffs. For point guards with 15+ games and 20+ minutes a game he has the lowest DRtg, the highest number of DWS and the highest rate of DWS/minute played. Aside from all that I'm sure his defensive numbers since KG's knee injury are terrible.

[BballTim]

I know BballTim is fond of bringing up Rondo's all-defense awards, but my suspicion is that any defensive accolades for Rondo are squarely in the past tense, and help us evaluate his play in the present about as much as you might infer.

  Is this similar to your suspicion that Rondo's play in his first few games back from injury was at an unsustainably high level?

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

makes sense, 3 good all around players, 1 being a upper level player
add in a scary draft pick and sign a top notch free agent and that is a contender

Neither Rondo nor Sullinger are anything close to "good all around players".

yep. they suck!!! CUT THEM BOTH NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:facepalm:

[moiso]

Funny.  We are currently built around Rondo, Green, and Sullinger... And we suck.

[Roy H.]

In other words, Danny isn't getting acceptable trade offers for Rondo and especially Green.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Funny.  We are currently built around Rondo, Green, and Sullinger... And we suck.

..."built"...

Got to use this twice!

[mmmmm]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

That's interesting.


In other news, Rondo's Drtg in 2006-2007 was 103. That dropped to 98 in 2008. I think we can figure out why. It climbed back to the hundreds for every year after that, (aside from 11-12) hitting 103 in 2009-2010 and 12-13.

His Drtg (small sample size of 9 games) currently sits at 103.

as an aside: His defensive win shares have also declined every year since KG's knee injury.

I know BballTim is fond of bringing up Rondo's all-defense awards, but my suspicion is that any defensive accolades for Rondo are squarely in the past tense, and help us evaluate his play in the present about as much as you might infer.

Which is really what I mean by "wait and see if Rondo's a good defender." A good/willing defender moving forward.

If your suggestion is that KG makes everybody a better defender, then I'm not going to argue against that.

But if you'll notice the top three units listed, it isn't the addition or removal of KG that is different in the one bad lineup.

KG may make everyone a better defender, but that doesn't mean others aren't good defenders and bad defenders.

Rondo's DRtg before KG may say more about how bad certain guys on that 2006-2007 team were on defense.   Rondo was also a rookie that season.

Heck, I just did a scan on 2-man units from 2006-07 that got at least 200 minutes together:

RR+Gomes      885.1    109.8
RR+Delonte    217.8    103.6
RR+Perkins    785.8    103.5
RR+G.Green    904.9    103.2
RR+Telfair    392.6    103.2
RR+Scal       405.6    102.4
RR+Pierce     565.3    102.2
RR+Big Al     981.2    101.3
RR+A. Ray     437.4    100.8
RR+Powe       421.2     98.9
RR+Szczerbiak 209.9     98.0


Now, if you look in turn at Ryan Gomes' numbers, they are pretty awful:

Gomes+Scal        296.2   117.6
Gomes+Szczerbiak  568.9   113.9
Gomes+G.Green     934.6   113.7
Gomes+Delonte    1235.9   113.0
Gomes+Tony        334.9   111.4
Gomes+Pierce      930.0   111.9
Gomes+Big Al     1323.3   110.2
Gomes+RR          885.1   109.8
Gomes+Telfair     946.6   109.4
Gomes+Perk        901.5   108.8
Gomes+A. Ray      359.0   107.2
Gomes+Powe        230.8   100.7


Wow -- that's just bad.  And he was on the floor a LOT!  2275 minutes for Ryan that season.   Half of Rondo's minutes were with Ryan on the floor with him.

In the 946 minutes Rondo was on the floor in 2006-2007 WITHOUT Ryan Gomes, his DRtg was 96.6.

'Just sayin...

Aside:  Kinda makes one pretty nostalgic for Leon ...

[mmmmm]

I think it still remains to be seen if either Sullinger or Rondo are good defenders, although I'm too busy to check their defensive numbers from this year right now.

  Rondo's got about 7 years of better than average numbers to go along with his 4 years on all-defense teams. He has a couple of top 5 finishes for DPOY as well. Aside from all of that, it's a close call.

The issue with Rondo is he wasn't a plus defender his last healthy year. Wasn't putting the effort in consistently, in my view because of the huge burden on him offensively.

Add to that his injury and I'm not sure we're see all-defense Rondo again consistently.

I disagree with the assessment in bold.

Rondo played in a variety of 5-man units that season:  Here are the 6 he played the most minutes in (the only ones with >50 minutes) and their defensive rating:

Min  Unit             DRtg (points per possession)
221   RR+JT+PP+BB+KG   .99
122   RR+AB+PP+BB+KG   .98
 78   RR+CL+PP+BB+KG  1.15
 77   RR+JT+PP+BB+CW  1.01
 62   RR+JT+PP+JG+KG   .91
 53   RR+JT+PP+KG+JC   .99

 
So, basically in the main units that he played in - which account for 613 of Rondo's 1423 minutes played last year, the team had an excellent DRtg in all but ONE unit.

The rest of Rondo's minutes were scattered across a wide variety of units with very small amounts of minutes and a wide variety of defensive ratings.   Rondo was the starter who stayed on the floor with the various bench units the most through the first half of the season.   Most of the 'bad' defensive minutes were from units used in the Fall that had things like a front court of Bass plus then-rookie Sullinger.   A LOT of his bad defensive units had Courtney Lee on them.  None of his best units (of significant minutes) did.

Lee was terrible at picking up help rotations in Doc's defense last year and ultimately got benched for it.

I don't believe Rondo was a bad defender at all last year.  The team he was playing on had defensive struggles though.   Especially when multiple veterans (KG, PP, JT, RR, BB & JG) were not on the floor.  As long as their were 3 or 4 of those guys on the floor, things usually held together.  But if not, things were often ugly on defense.

You need to take off your rondo goggles. You think he does nothing wrong

Yes, clearly that is what I expressed there, in that post.   Rondo does nothing wrong.

If only I had your Spock-like objectivity when it comes to Rondo.