Aaron Gordon or Noah Vonleh?

[PhoSita]

So you want to develop young players who are not ready to play in the NBA now, only to ultimately have to match a restricted offer sheet just to "keep them under your control" when they are ready? This is why Danny took Olynyk and why he had Draymond Green in for two workouts. This is not a Utah Jazz rebuilding plan, I guarantee you.

When you're selecting outside of the top 10, you go for the safe pick -- the guy you think has the best chance of simply being an NBA player.

Selecting in the high lottery is a different story.  That's where most of the very best players are drafted, and a well run franchise will not have many opportunities to select high.  In that range, you swing for the fences.

You don't build an extremely talented roster by making all safe picks.

[Dog_Lover106]

So you want to develop young players who are not ready to play in the NBA now, only to ultimately have to match a restricted offer sheet just to "keep them under your control" when they are ready? This is why Danny took Olynyk and why he had Draymond Green in for two workouts. This is not a Utah Jazz rebuilding plan, I guarantee you.

When you're selecting outside of the top 10, you go for the safe pick -- the guy you think has the best chance of simply being an NBA player.

Selecting in the high lottery is a different story.  That's where most of the very best players are drafted, and a well run franchise will not have many opportunities to select high.  In that range, you swing for the fences.

You don't build an extremely talented roster by making all safe picks.

I would say it is the other way around. You are correct that there may not be many opportunities to draft high. That is why making that high pick pay off sooner rather than later is so important. Outside the high lottery is where you swing for the fence. If it does not work, than you will have another try next year.

Being a more NBA ready draftee is mutually exclusive from having upside in IMO.

You wrote: "You don't build an extremely talented roster by making all safe picks."

I would counter that and say you do win a NBA championship by developing a lot of 18 year olds, unless LeBron is sitting there.

Also, why cannot a "safe pick" also be extremely talented? Did Detroit not make a mistake by swinging for the fences and taking KCP over Trey Burke? Does this somehow mean that Trey Burke cannot ever be "extremely talented", because he was a safer more NBA ready player?

Danny has had a couple of high picks. Did he shoot for fence as you say and take young upside players like Brandon Roy or Jeff Green? No, he made sure the high picks paid off and both high pick assets generated sure things like Ray Allen and much needed cap space that led to acquiring players who were NBA ready.

Draft strategy however is not my point. I choose not go by draft boards and the hype and prefer to judge players on what they do, as opposed how many magazine covers they are on or how highly they are "rated" by mock drafts.

[Tr1boy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MeP9bTv_90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqtlJ0fP_wA

I like both. But I like gordon a little better. He might not be a go to guy but does so many other things that go unnoticed to help you win.  Excellent multi position defender. Better than
vonleh

If danny/stevens has sully and oly pegged
as our future front court duo, gordon would really help them defensively. Also Bc sully and olynyk have very good perimeter/shooting skills, gordons weakness offensively wouldnt be as apparent

[vjcsmoke]

Neither of these guys is an upgrade at PF over Sully though.  That's my biggest problem with taken Vonleh or Gordon.

Comparing them to each other:

Vonleh has the superior length and rebounding ability.  He also has a pretty good post game.
Gordon has superior explosion and athleticism but can't shoot.

I wouldn't take any of them unless it was a teens pick.  they just don't fill a need.  If you draft one of them what do you do, bench Kelly?  Cut into Sully's PT when he is currently a superior player?

[BigAlTheFuture]

Neither of these guys is an upgrade at PF over Sully though.  That's my biggest problem with taken Vonleh or Gordon.

Comparing them to each other:

Vonleh has the superior length and rebounding ability.  He also has a pretty good post game.
Gordon has superior explosion and athleticism but can't shoot.

I wouldn't take any of them unless it was a teens pick.  they just don't fill a need.  If you draft one of them what do you do, bench Kelly?  Cut into Sully's PT when he is currently a superior player?

Who would you pick ahead of them then? Let's say we have the 6th or 7th pick and Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Exum, Smart and Randle are all gone. You would pass up Vonleh or Gordon? They don't fill a need but they're going to be the best players available at those spots. And you gotta take the BPA.

[JBcat]

If Noah can actually play center in the NBA, maybe it could be a nice rotation with him, KO, and Sully all guys with different skill sets. 

[Galeto]

So you want to develop young players who are not ready to play in the NBA now, only to ultimately have to match a restricted offer sheet just to "keep them under your control" when they are ready? This is why Danny took Olynyk and why he had Draymond Green in for two workouts. This is not a Utah Jazz rebuilding plan, I guarantee you.

When you're selecting outside of the top 10, you go for the safe pick -- the guy you think has the best chance of simply being an NBA player.

Selecting in the high lottery is a different story.  That's where most of the very best players are drafted, and a well run franchise will not have many opportunities to select high.  In that range, you swing for the fences.

You don't build an extremely talented roster by making all safe picks.

You're making this sound way too simplistic.  A GM can't just simply give up and go for the lowest, safest pick around the 11th pick.  From the 25th pick on, maybe the 20th pick on but there are gradients.  It's absurd to lump the 11-60 picks into the same philosophy.

[Tr1boy]

Neither of these guys is an upgrade at PF over Sully though.  That's my biggest problem with taken Vonleh or Gordon.

Comparing them to each other:

Vonleh has the superior length and rebounding ability.  He also has a pretty good post game.
Gordon has superior explosion and athleticism but can't shoot.

I wouldn't take any of them unless it was a teens pick.  they just don't fill a need.  If you draft one of them what do you do, bench Kelly?  Cut into Sully's PT when he is currently a superior player?

Gordon can play SF. Regardless if he doesn't have ideal perimeter skills for a SF, he can lock opposing SFs down defensively.

Also Sully and Olynyk present a way you can design a "different" team.  Sully and Olynyk come next year in great shape, stronger, quicker and are no longer liabilities defensively. At least their man won't have a easy time scoring. But no matter how great of a shape they get into i doubt they will ever be able to protect the rim. This is where a guy like Gordon can come in. He plays above the rim to make opposing players think twice before driving in. On the offensive end, you have Olynyk utilizing his perimeter skills. Sully has nice perimeter skills. But now you add a guy like Gordon who is very good cutting to the net, making the extra pass and getting offensive rebounds/putbacks.  So its like Gordon will play the PF on the offensive end and guard SFs on the other end. 

[Galeto]

One of my biggest gripes about Gordon is simply the way he runs.  I've never seen anyone run or simply stand on his tiptoes as much as he does.  It makes most of his moves look really awkward.

He's like a Joakim Noah with SF size.  Very good passer, high basketball IQ, plays with energy but that kind of player is much less significant in a tweener package than in a legimate center.

[PhoSita]

I watched the scouting video on Vonleh, and I must say he intrigues me, but the fact that "Basketball IQ" and "Feel for the game" are listed as weaknesses bothers me.  I'm wary of guys who have great physical attributes but who don't necessarily know when or how to make the smart play.

By comparison, Gordon is even younger than Vonleh, but he's putting up pretty good numbers, too, and generally doing a ton of the little things that help keep Arizona winning.  There's something to be said for being a winner.

[Tr1boy]

I watched the scouting video on Vonleh, and I must say he intrigues me, but the fact that "Basketball IQ" and "Feel for the game" are listed as weaknesses bothers me.  I'm wary of guys who have great physical attributes but who don't necessarily know when or how to make the smart play.

By comparison, Gordon is even younger than Vonleh, but he's putting up pretty good numbers, too, and generally doing a ton of the little things that help keep Arizona winning.  There's something to be said for being a winner.

+1.

Without Gordon Arizona would not be 23-2. Add at least 5 more loses.

And really, we are going to care about the way he runs? He has big feet. He moves around just fine. He has underrated quickness. Look at his defense on guards.

I believe his offense will come. Especially a mid range shot and improved FT shooting. But outside of this issues he can do so many other things. His defense and help defense without fouling is fantastic

[esel1000]

Vonleh all deh

[Tr1boy]

Vonleh all deh

Do you like Vonleh's team record of 14-11?

[esel1000]

Vonleh all deh

Do you like Vonleh's team record of 14-11?

I don't really focus on that. I just think Gordon has more bust potential. Could be wrong but being a tweener at sf/pf isn't great. Vonleh could develop into a really good big man.

[BigAlTheFuture]

Vonleh all deh

Do you like Vonleh's team record of 14-11?

Indiana is no where near as talented as Arizona. This doesn't change the fact that Vonleh is better than Gordon.