Danny must act now

[BleedGreen1989]

There's no need to act impatiently or rashly here.  If he finds a deal he likes, he'll take it.  Otherwise, I don't see a pressing need to make any moves just for the sake of it, certainly not for the sake of getting worse.

I disagree.  Your dream scenario (standing pat and making the playoffs with a below .500 record) represents what I see as the absolute worst-case scenario for this team.

O.k., then, I'll put you in the corner of being staunchly in favor of "rashness and impatience."

We've gone back and forth on this.  Fully healthy this team has a ceiling of 36 wins.  I just don't see the next step a 36 win team can take to jump into relevancy.  They wouldn't have cap space.  Their draft picks would be very unlikely to net stars... the picks wouldn't be valuable on the trade market. 

Actually, now that I actually pause and give it thought, it's possible we could work out something next year involving Bass' expiring contract + some young assets and picks.   So really... you're probably right.  Whatever. Let it ride.  Let's dive into mediocrity.  Let's push Indiana to a 6 game series.

Excellent.  Glad to hear that you are in complete agreement.  It's settled, then.

It's settled.  You win. 

This is fantastic.

Keep up the good work C18, you've just managed to save one tanker from their tankitis disease, let's try to save the rest.

Let no tanker go un-helped.

 

I put my money where my mouth is, and this morning I traded Jameer Nelson for Rajon Rondo on one of my fantasy teams.



At this point, I'm tired of arguing about it.  If Ainge is going to do something, it will happen in the next 12 days.  After that, you just gotta jump on board with whatever plan he lays out.

This exactly.

It's fun to watch the same people argue day after day but eventually you're just gonna have to accept the direction Ainge picks.

[KGs Knee]

There's no need to act impatiently or rashly here.  If he finds a deal he likes, he'll take it.  Otherwise, I don't see a pressing need to make any moves just for the sake of it, certainly not for the sake of getting worse.

I disagree.  Your dream scenario (standing pat and making the playoffs with a below .500 record) represents what I see as the absolute worst-case scenario for this team.

O.k., then, I'll put you in the corner of being staunchly in favor of "rashness and impatience."

We've gone back and forth on this.  Fully healthy this team has a ceiling of 36 wins.  I just don't see the next step a 36 win team can take to jump into relevancy.  They wouldn't have cap space.  Their draft picks would be very unlikely to net stars... the picks wouldn't be valuable on the trade market. 

Actually, now that I actually pause and give it thought, it's possible we could work out something next year involving Bass' expiring contract + some young assets and picks.   So really... you're probably right.  Whatever. Let it ride.  Let's dive into mediocrity.  Let's push Indiana to a 6 game series.

Excellent.  Glad to hear that you are in complete agreement.  It's settled, then.

It's settled.  You win. 

This is fantastic.

Keep up the good work C18, you've just managed to save one tanker from their tankitis disease, let's try to save the rest.

Let no tanker go un-helped.

 

I put my money where my mouth is, and this morning I traded Jameer Nelson for Rajon Rondo on one of my fantasy teams.



At this point, I'm tired of arguing about it.  If Ainge is going to do something, it will happen in the next 12 days.  After that, you just gotta jump on board with whatever plan he lays out.

LOL!

At least someone around here has a sense of humor

TP

[Celtics18]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try. Much like the Bucks and Wolves. It's a crappy climate and the nightlife is terrible. If you're 25 what would you rather have a great school system or bars crawling with women at 4am in paradise. That's why places like Miami Dallas LA will always have the upper hand over a place like Boston. Boston is attractive to players that are in the mid to late 30's and want to start a family. Even a place like Atlanta or DC is much more desirable than Boston.

You are making a lot of completely unfounded assumptions about what all 25 year old NBA stars want in a place to call their basketball home. 

If what you say is true, Kevin Durant wouldn't still be in Oklahoma City, Tim Duncan wouldn't have played his entire career in San Antonio, Paul George wouldn't still be in Indiana, etc . . .

I don't think that glamorous beach parties and hot women mean everything to all NBA players.  I would say that to a majority of them a good basketball culture and strong chance at winning are going to trump some of those rather superfluous concerns. 

[Boris Badenov]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try.

I think you have a point there, but there's a factor that is different now: Boston is known around the league as a good organization, with a savvy GM who knows how to build a winner.

I think a lot of these younger guys are looking around and seeing what a difference that makes. Irving, Love, Drummond, etc. - these young guys with talent can see what a bad organization will do even when swimming in lottery picks.

I don't know for sure, but I see our ability to sign a top FA as perhaps at an all-time high, at least over the last twenty years.

[cb8883]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try. Much like the Bucks and Wolves. It's a crappy climate and the nightlife is terrible. If you're 25 what would you rather have a great school system or bars crawling with women at 4am in paradise. That's why places like Miami Dallas LA will always have the upper hand over a place like Boston. Boston is attractive to players that are in the mid to late 30's and want to start a family. Even a place like Atlanta or DC is much more desirable than Boston.

You are making a lot of completely unfounded assumptions about what all 25 year old NBA stars want in a place to call their basketball home. 

If what you say is true, Kevin Durant wouldn't still be in Oklahoma City, Tim Duncan wouldn't have played his entire career in San Antonio, Paul George wouldn't still be in Indiana, etc . . .

I don't think that glamorous beach parties and hot women mean everything to all NBA players.  I would say that to a majority of them a good basketball culture and strong chance at winning are going to trump some of those rather superfluous concerns.

Give me an example of a successful young NBA player that has willingly moved North besides NYC?

[KGs Knee]

If Ainge is going to do something, it will happen in the next 12 days.  After that, you just gotta jump on board with whatever plan he lays out.

This is probably the most I have ever agreed with you.

Like what Ainge does or not, it's in his hands.

[KGs Knee]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try. Much like the Bucks and Wolves. It's a crappy climate and the nightlife is terrible. If you're 25 what would you rather have a great school system or bars crawling with women at 4am in paradise. That's why places like Miami Dallas LA will always have the upper hand over a place like Boston. Boston is attractive to players that are in the mid to late 30's and want to start a family. Even a place like Atlanta or DC is much more desirable than Boston.

You are making a lot of completely unfounded assumptions about what all 25 year old NBA stars want in a place to call their basketball home. 

If what you say is true, Kevin Durant wouldn't still be in Oklahoma City, Tim Duncan wouldn't have played his entire career in San Antonio, Paul George wouldn't still be in Indiana, etc . . .

I don't think that glamorous beach parties and hot women mean everything to all NBA players.  I would say that to a majority of them a good basketball culture and strong chance at winning are going to trump some of those rather superfluous concerns.

Give me an example of a successful young NBA player that has willingly moved North besides NYC?

Josh Smith just signed a near max deal to play in Detroit.  Certainly you don't equate Detroit and Boston?

Note:  I'm not advocating Smith as a star or not, but he did sign a large contract, which means at least one team found him to be good enough to deserve that money.

[cb8883]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try. Much like the Bucks and Wolves. It's a crappy climate and the nightlife is terrible. If you're 25 what would you rather have a great school system or bars crawling with women at 4am in paradise. That's why places like Miami Dallas LA will always have the upper hand over a place like Boston. Boston is attractive to players that are in the mid to late 30's and want to start a family. Even a place like Atlanta or DC is much more desirable than Boston.

You are making a lot of completely unfounded assumptions about what all 25 year old NBA stars want in a place to call their basketball home. 

If what you say is true, Kevin Durant wouldn't still be in Oklahoma City, Tim Duncan wouldn't have played his entire career in San Antonio, Paul George wouldn't still be in Indiana, etc . . .

I don't think that glamorous beach parties and hot women mean everything to all NBA players.  I would say that to a majority of them a good basketball culture and strong chance at winning are going to trump some of those rather superfluous concerns.

Give me an example of a successful young NBA player that has willingly moved North besides NYC?

Josh Smith just signed a near max deal to play in Detroit.  Certainly you don't equate Detroit and Boston?

Note:  I'm not advocating Smith as a star or not, but he did sign a large contract, which means at least one team found him to be good enough to deserve that money.

Good to see that you aren't. Josh Smith is not a good basketball player. The teams that were interested were rumored to be up north. Plus Detroit is very well known for overpaying decent players. Never understood what people saw in Josh Smith.

[nickagneta]

Boston is far from a small market NBA team. they have the sixth largest media market in the US and a rabid money spending sports viewership marketplace. They have around the 10th highest ticket price in the NBA and are one of the few NBA teams that holds an equity partnership with their television broadcasting partners.

The Celtics are worth more than 27-28 other NBA teams and has been a regular payer of the luxury tax without it being a problem while they have been contending.

This team is not afraid to spend money to put a winner on the floor and win championships. That can't be said for about 25 or so other teams in the league.

The reason for a lack of free agents is because the Celtics have been over the salary cap for what has been well over a decade acting like a big market team, spending money to put a winner on the floor.If you are spending monet trying to win and constantly in the luxury tax, it means you are not way under the salary cap and hence have no way of signing a big name free agent.

The Celtics have never tried to clear enough cap space to get so far under the cap to sign someone because that means allowing assets to walk in free agency, not resigning your own star players you have developed through the draft and trading away players to get nothing in return.

If you have followed Danny Ainge's management philosophy, that isn't his style. He doesn't let players walk unless they are outpricing themselves and he doesn't trade players away for nothing and he tries like heck to resign his excellent well developed drafted players so that he can get them to play well in Boston or to trade away to get some other asset.

Don't conflate Boston not signing big name free agents recently with not being a big market team because quite honestly, before Steve Nash, the Lakers haven't exactly been signing big name free agents recently either. Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Shaq, Fisher....none of the Lakers biggest names during the 2000's were signed as free agents and yet, no one is accusing the Lakers of being a small market team.

[Lucky17]

Boston is far from a small market NBA team. they have the sixth largest media market in the US and a rabid money spending sports viewership marketplace. They have around the 10th highest ticket price in the NBA and are one of the few NBA teams that holds an equity partnership with their television broadcasting partners.

The Celtics are worth more than 27-28 other NBA teams and has been a regular payer of the luxury tax without it being a problem while they have been contending.

This team is not afraid to spend money to put a winner on the floor and win championships. That can't be said for about 25 or so other teams in the league.

The reason for a lack of free agents is because the Celtics have been over the salary cap for what has been well over a decade acting like a big market team, spending money to put a winner on the floor.If you are spending monet trying to win and constantly in the luxury tax, it means you are not way under the salary cap and hence have no way of signing a big name free agent.

The Celtics have never tried to clear enough cap space to get so far under the cap to sign someone because that means allowing assets to walk in free agency, not resigning your own star players you have developed through the draft and trading away players to get nothing in return.

If you have followed Danny Ainge's management philosophy, that isn't his style. He doesn't let players walk unless they are outpricing themselves and he doesn't trade players away for nothing and he tries like heck to resign his excellent well developed drafted players so that he can get them to play well in Boston or to trade away to get some other asset.

Don't conflate Boston not signing big name free agents recently with not being a big market team because quite honestly, before Steve Nash, the Lakers haven't exactly been signing big name free agents recently either. Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol....none of the Lakers biggest names during the 2000's were signed as free agents and yet, no one is accusing the Lakers of being a small market team.

I feel like this post ought to be required reading around here. Can we sticky it, or something?

[cb8883]

Boston is far from a small market NBA team. they have the sixth largest media market in the US and a rabid money spending sports viewership marketplace. They have around the 10th highest ticket price in the NBA and are one of the few NBA teams that holds an equity partnership with their television broadcasting partners.

The Celtics are worth more than 27-28 other NBA teams and has been a regular payer of the luxury tax without it being a problem while they have been contending.

This team is not afraid to spend money to put a winner on the floor and win championships. That can't be said for about 25 or so other teams in the league.

The reason for a lack of free agents is because the Celtics have been over the salary cap for what has been well over a decade acting like a big market team, spending money to put a winner on the floor.If you are spending monet trying to win and constantly in the luxury tax, it means you are not way under the salary cap and hence have no way of signing a big name free agent.

The Celtics have never tried to clear enough cap space to get so far under the cap to sign someone because that means allowing assets to walk in free agency, not resigning your own star players you have developed through the draft and trading away players to get nothing in return.

If you have followed Danny Ainge's management philosophy, that isn't his style. He doesn't let players walk unless they are outpricing themselves and he doesn't trade players away for nothing and he tries like heck to resign his excellent well developed drafted players so that he can get them to play well in Boston or to trade away to get some other asset.

Don't conflate Boston not signing big name free agents recently with not being a big market team because quite honestly, before Steve Nash, the Lakers haven't exactly been signing big name free agents recently either. Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol....none of the Lakers biggest names during the 2000's were signed as free agents and yet, no one is accusing the Lakers of being a small market team.

Shaq didn't leave Orlando as a free agent for the Lakers?! Really? Malone Payton also joined as free agents (that team did make the finals) you cannot compare LA and Boston because there is no comparison. Free agents love the bright lights of LA. They love endorsements and movie roles and the glitz of the area. Same as in NY. Boston would never be able to compete with those locations. Think about it. Say you're an NBA player and you have no family ties to Miami or Boston but both are offering the same amount of money. Where do you go? A young NBA player...come on its a rhetorical question. South Beach or the Cape? Weather is a major factor whether you want to admit it or not.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

After yesterday's game - I want to keep Sully more, and Bradley a little less

Rondo/Sully is a must keep!

been sayin'

[KGs Knee]

Boston is far from a small market NBA team. they have the sixth largest media market in the US and a rabid money spending sports viewership marketplace. They have around the 10th highest ticket price in the NBA and are one of the few NBA teams that holds an equity partnership with their television broadcasting partners.

The Celtics are worth more than 27-28 other NBA teams and has been a regular payer of the luxury tax without it being a problem while they have been contending.

This team is not afraid to spend money to put a winner on the floor and win championships. That can't be said for about 25 or so other teams in the league.

The reason for a lack of free agents is because the Celtics have been over the salary cap for what has been well over a decade acting like a big market team, spending money to put a winner on the floor.If you are spending monet trying to win and constantly in the luxury tax, it means you are not way under the salary cap and hence have no way of signing a big name free agent.

The Celtics have never tried to clear enough cap space to get so far under the cap to sign someone because that means allowing assets to walk in free agency, not resigning your own star players you have developed through the draft and trading away players to get nothing in return.

If you have followed Danny Ainge's management philosophy, that isn't his style. He doesn't let players walk unless they are outpricing themselves and he doesn't trade players away for nothing and he tries like heck to resign his excellent well developed drafted players so that he can get them to play well in Boston or to trade away to get some other asset.

Don't conflate Boston not signing big name free agents recently with not being a big market team because quite honestly, before Steve Nash, the Lakers haven't exactly been signing big name free agents recently either. Bynum, Gasol, Kobe, Shaq, Gasol....none of the Lakers biggest names during the 2000's were signed as free agents and yet, no one is accusing the Lakers of being a small market team.

I feel like this post ought to be required reading around here. Can we sticky it, or something?

I posted a couple link's on the previous page outlining Boston's standing in terms of market size.

Apparently irrefutable evidence is not enough to sway the opinions of some individuals.


As to whether or not Ainge would ever go the FA route, I don't think it's at all set in stone he wouldn't choose that path.  Unlikely, but possible.

[gar]

Bogus assertion to trade because you win a few games. Danny's job is to acquire assets not give them away. The only trades he should be considering are those involving expiring contracts like Humphries and Bogans. Everyone else is on either reasonable contracts or contracts that would be too hard to move (Wallace). Now if you are saying that we should package Wallace's contract with an asset or two, that also might be a panic move. You can just waive him. But he is not winning up many games for no rush there.

Sit tight and see what the lottery brings. Then let the fun begin.

[Casperian]

Wanted to post something, lost interest halfway in. It´s just not worth the hassle.

In Danny we trust. Go Celtics!