Danny must act now

[Depalma2002]

There's no need to act impatiently or rashly here.  If he finds a deal he likes, he'll take it.  Otherwise, I don't see a pressing need to make any moves just for the sake of it, certainly not for the sake of getting worse.

I agree. Selling off assets for pennies on the dollar might be a great way of guaranteeing a top pick, but it also means that when you get that top pick, you absolutely must be 100% right. You have left no room for error because your stripped down roster can't make up for it.

Make the moves if the value (current or future) is there. Otherwise, play it out.

[JBcat]

I'm not worried.  Ainge will find a deal or 2 that is a win win for both teams. 

There are plenty of teams out there where GMs are under pressure to win now from either management or risk losing their star player like NY, Charlotte, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, Minnesota, and more.

Then there teams maybe looking for just more depth for their playoff run like Houston, SA, Golden State, and others.  Also Ainge has proved to be creative with our last 2 deals 3 team deals.

Plus there doesn't appear to be too many teams selling off players.  Us, Philly, Orlando, Milwaukee, Utah, maybe Lakers, and we have just as much if not more to offer to those win now teams than these teams IMO.

[cb8883]

So Phoenix calls you up and says "Hey Danny, I understand you're trying to lose games. I'll help. Jeff Green and Avery Bradley for Okafor and two protected 2nd rounders. Deal?"

I would not make it.  Cap Space is no use if people won't come here.  I defy anyone to name a good signing other than when we had a superstar here?  PP and KG drew people and Bird got us Walton probably but with no stars no signings!

New York calls you up and says "You know we love Rondo and we understand you're trying to lose. How about Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green for Amare and a protected 2018 first rounder? Deal?"

Take off the protection and maybe.

I'll just say this about stars coming to Boston via free-agency, when where we actually in a position (having cap space) to acquire a star free-agent and we missed on it?

So I don't see it as much as no stars coming to Boston, but when has Boston actually been in a position to acquire such a player in the first place? I would bet not many.

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

[KGs Knee]

So Phoenix calls you up and says "Hey Danny, I understand you're trying to lose games. I'll help. Jeff Green and Avery Bradley for Okafor and two protected 2nd rounders. Deal?"

I would not make it.  Cap Space is no use if people won't come here.  I defy anyone to name a good signing other than when we had a superstar here?  PP and KG drew people and Bird got us Walton probably but with no stars no signings!

New York calls you up and says "You know we love Rondo and we understand you're trying to lose. How about Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green for Amare and a protected 2018 first rounder? Deal?"

Take off the protection and maybe.

I'll just say this about stars coming to Boston via free-agency, when where we actually in a position (having cap space) to acquire a star free-agent and we missed on it?

So I don't see it as much as no stars coming to Boston, but when has Boston actually been in a position to acquire such a player in the first place? I would bet not many.

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

Comparing Boston to Cleveland seems a bit ridiculous.

I'm not sure exactly what definition of "small market" you are using, but I'd be interested to hear exactly what evidence you are using to come to this conclusion.

For a point of reference, here is an article that details market size, which has the Celtics ranked 7th.  Cleveland is 19th, for comparison's sake.  According to US and Canadian census data 2010/2011, Boston is the 5th largest metro-area, Cleveland is 20th.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/03/nba-market-size-numbers-game/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_and_Canadian_cities_by_number_of_major_professional_sports_franchises


There's obviously a huge difference between the NY and LA teams, and everyone else, but Boston is hardly 'small market' and certainly not comparable to Cleveland.  Most all of the available data strongly suggests Boston is a top 5 market, when considering population, TV homes and franchise value.  Weather plays a factor, but is probably canceled out by "winning", in terms of desirability.

[Celtics4ever]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

[KGs Knee]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

[slamtheking]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

and you can't name a top player that could have come here and chose not too because of those factors. 

Boston has never had the cap room to even try.  saying they've never signed that type of player is an invalid argument when the $ was never available to try.  Look at any other Boston sport -- no problems whatsoever in signing big name free agents so to suggest the Celtics are the only ones that market,weather, etc … impacts is a bunch of hogwash.

every time I hear that foolishness it just irritates the hell out of me.

[BballTim]

So Phoenix calls you up and says "Hey Danny, I understand you're trying to lose games. I'll help. Jeff Green and Avery Bradley for Okafor and two protected 2nd rounders. Deal?"

I would not make it.  Cap Space is no use if people won't come here.  I defy anyone to name a good signing other than when we had a superstar here?  PP and KG drew people and Bird got us Walton probably but with no stars no signings!

New York calls you up and says "You know we love Rondo and we understand you're trying to lose. How about Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green for Amare and a protected 2018 first rounder? Deal?"

Take off the protection and maybe.

I'll just say this about stars coming to Boston via free-agency, when where we actually in a position (having cap space) to acquire a star free-agent and we missed on it?

So I don't see it as much as no stars coming to Boston, but when has Boston actually been in a position to acquire such a player in the first place? I would bet not many.

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

  If Boston's such a terrible place to play, why did all three of Ray/PP/KG re-sign with the team around 2010 (and at what could be considered team-friendly deals) when they were all playing reasonably well?

[KGs Knee]

  If Boston's such a terrible place to play, why did all three of Ray/PP/KG re-sign with the team around 2010 (and at what could be considered team-friendly deals) when they were all playing reasonably well?

Never happened, it was all a figment of our collective imaginations.

The NBA title we won in 2008, with a "bunch of 30 year olds", never happened either.

[BballTim]

  If Boston's such a terrible place to play, why did all three of Ray/PP/KG re-sign with the team around 2010 (and at what could be considered team-friendly deals) when they were all playing reasonably well?

Never happened, it was all a figment of our collective imaginations.

The NBA title we won in 2008, with a "bunch of 30 year olds", never happened either.

  It was pretty much a treadmill team anyways, no players obtained by tanking in a once in a lifetime draft.

[cb8883]

So Phoenix calls you up and says "Hey Danny, I understand you're trying to lose games. I'll help. Jeff Green and Avery Bradley for Okafor and two protected 2nd rounders. Deal?"

I would not make it.  Cap Space is no use if people won't come here.  I defy anyone to name a good signing other than when we had a superstar here?  PP and KG drew people and Bird got us Walton probably but with no stars no signings!

New York calls you up and says "You know we love Rondo and we understand you're trying to lose. How about Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green for Amare and a protected 2018 first rounder? Deal?"

Take off the protection and maybe.

I'll just say this about stars coming to Boston via free-agency, when where we actually in a position (having cap space) to acquire a star free-agent and we missed on it?

So I don't see it as much as no stars coming to Boston, but when has Boston actually been in a position to acquire such a player in the first place? I would bet not many.

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

  If Boston's such a terrible place to play, why did all three of Ray/PP/KG re-sign with the team around 2010 (and at what could be considered team-friendly deals) when they were all playing reasonably well?

Never said it was a terrible place. It's less desirable because of its climate but Ray is from CT and KG wasn't exactly thrilled to come to Boston initially. I appreciate that Ainge tries to build a winner quick but there is a lot o be said about building from within and having cost controlled talent. That's what no one seems to understand. Prospects and youth is everything

[BballTim]

So Phoenix calls you up and says "Hey Danny, I understand you're trying to lose games. I'll help. Jeff Green and Avery Bradley for Okafor and two protected 2nd rounders. Deal?"

I would not make it.  Cap Space is no use if people won't come here.  I defy anyone to name a good signing other than when we had a superstar here?  PP and KG drew people and Bird got us Walton probably but with no stars no signings!

New York calls you up and says "You know we love Rondo and we understand you're trying to lose. How about Rajon Rondo and Jeff Green for Amare and a protected 2018 first rounder? Deal?"

Take off the protection and maybe.

I'll just say this about stars coming to Boston via free-agency, when where we actually in a position (having cap space) to acquire a star free-agent and we missed on it?

So I don't see it as much as no stars coming to Boston, but when has Boston actually been in a position to acquire such a player in the first place? I would bet not many.

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

  If Boston's such a terrible place to play, why did all three of Ray/PP/KG re-sign with the team around 2010 (and at what could be considered team-friendly deals) when they were all playing reasonably well?

Never said it was a terrible place. It's less desirable because of its climate but Ray is from CT and KG wasn't exactly thrilled to come to Boston initially. I appreciate that Ainge tries to build a winner quick but there is a lot o be said about building from within and having cost controlled talent. That's what no one seems to understand. Prospects and youth is everything

  Everybody understands that there is a lot to be said about building from within and having cost controlled talent. Most people understand that prospects and youth aren't everything. Valuable, yes. Life or death? No.

[LooseCannon]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

and you can't name a top player that could have come here and chose not too because of those factors. 

Boston has never had the cap room to even try.  saying they've never signed that type of player is an invalid argument when the $ was never available to try.  Look at any other Boston sport -- no problems whatsoever in signing big name free agents so to suggest the Celtics are the only ones that market,weather, etc … impacts is a bunch of hogwash.

every time I hear that foolishness it just irritates the hell out of me.

The Celtics were able to bring in their choice of the biggest name talent available for the MLE.  Boston can attract some big name max-contract guys in free agency if the Celtics are a winning team with a highly-respected coach that people want to play for.

[LarBrd33]

There's no need to act impatiently or rashly here.  If he finds a deal he likes, he'll take it.  Otherwise, I don't see a pressing need to make any moves just for the sake of it, certainly not for the sake of getting worse.

I disagree.  Your dream scenario (standing pat and making the playoffs with a below .500 record) represents what I see as the absolute worst-case scenario for this team.

O.k., then, I'll put you in the corner of being staunchly in favor of "rashness and impatience."

We've gone back and forth on this.  Fully healthy this team has a ceiling of 36 wins.  I just don't see the next step a 36 win team can take to jump into relevancy.  They wouldn't have cap space.  Their draft picks would be very unlikely to net stars... the picks wouldn't be valuable on the trade market. 

Actually, now that I actually pause and give it thought, it's possible we could work out something next year involving Bass' expiring contract + some young assets and picks.   So really... you're probably right.  Whatever. Let it ride.  Let's dive into mediocrity.  Let's push Indiana to a 6 game series.

Excellent.  Glad to hear that you are in complete agreement.  It's settled, then.

It's settled.  You win. 

This is fantastic.

Keep up the good work C18, you've just managed to save one tanker from their tankitis disease, let's try to save the rest.

Let no tanker go un-helped.

 

I put my money where my mouth is, and this morning I traded Jameer Nelson for Rajon Rondo on one of my fantasy teams.



At this point, I'm tired of arguing about it.  If Ainge is going to do something, it will happen in the next 12 days.  After that, you just gotta jump on board with whatever plan he lays out.

[cb8883]

Boston might be worth a lot of money but it's a small market much like Cleveland. Small Market teams need to build through the draft and some trades. Boston has horrible weather it's not like like trying to attract players to go to a place like Buffalo but if you could choose between living in Boston and Los Angeles and 90 degree weather where would you choose? It's all about weather and market size. No stars will ever come to Boston unless it's by trade. It will never be an elite players first choice. Tanking is the best action.

TP you get it.  No one could name a signing?  I can think of a star signing here either.

BleedGreen1989. I apologize to you as well.   My post probably came across harsh as well.   My bad, I am sorry.  We both love the Celtics.

Obviously, you don't "get it".

Boston has never had the cap space to sign a 'star' player.  How can you possibly sign a player the rules prevent you from signing?

This is an excuse. Boston knows better than to try. Much like the Bucks and Wolves. It's a crappy climate and the nightlife is terrible. If you're 25 what would you rather have a great school system or bars crawling with women at 4am in paradise. That's why places like Miami Dallas LA will always have the upper hand over a place like Boston. Boston is attractive to players that are in the mid to late 30's and want to start a family. Even a place like Atlanta or DC is much more desirable than Boston.