In upcoming draft, who is the best fit for Celtics?

[wiley]

agree with BPA approaach but this thread asks about fit.  So Cauley Stein is
that, a great fit.

His lack of offense isn't a good reason not to take him.  People are clamoring for Asik
and he has no offense either.  The nice thing about having a point guard like Rondo
is you can maximize the offensive output of guys who aren't natural scorers.

The only question with Cauley Stein for me is:  What's his defensive potential?
Seems to me he remains a bit mysterious in that regard.  Has he shown a high IQ
on the defensive end?  Not talking about blocks, but nuts and bolts defense.

Please enlighten me or throw out predictions on this guy's defense.

[tstorey_97]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

[Celtics18]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

[LarBrd33]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

[Celtics18]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism. 

[wiley]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

[KGs Knee]

My preference would be Magic Bird

If he's not available, LeBron Jordan.

I'd take my chances with either player.

[Tr1boy]

agree with BPA approaach but this thread asks about fit.  So Cauley Stein is
that, a great fit.

His lack of offense isn't a good reason not to take him.  People are clamoring for Asik
and he has no offense either.  The nice thing about having a point guard like Rondo
is you can maximize the offensive output of guys who aren't natural scorers.

The only question with Cauley Stein for me is:  What's his defensive potential?
Seems to me he remains a bit mysterious in that regard.  Has he shown a high IQ
on the defensive end?  Not talking about blocks, but nuts and bolts defense.

Please enlighten me or throw out predictions on this guy's defense.

These are WCS issues

- on the offensive end, he has poor hands to catch difficult lobs or bounce passes.  no post skills. Strictly dunks and sometimes shows surprising ability to drive to the net for a layup

- On the defensive end he gets manhandled at times. Its not for the lack of effort. But unlike say Sullinger who is hard to push off position, WCS can be moved without alot of fuss. He has a weak base, thin waist. This is another reason why he is a poor defensive rebounder

If he can add 20 more pounds of muscle,  he will be a decent NBA center. Just too quick , athletic + length. But the worry is, can he really add muscle? He doesn't look any bigger from last year. Either its very difficult to add or he didn't try hard enough in the off season (either case bad news).

Right now he is not ready. He is strictly a center without a center body. 

[nickagneta]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

My guess is you are wrong. My guess is, and it is just a guess but I think its a fairly good one, but my guess is that there will be at least one player that will be absolutely as big a failure and bust as Melo or Giddens taken somewhere between 1 and 15.

[wiley]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

My guess is you are wrong. My guess is, and it is just a guess but I think its a fairly good one, but my guess is that there will be at least one player that will be absolutely as big a failure and bust as Melo or Giddens taken somewhere between 1 and 15.

I can't see anyone in the top 20 busting....except maybe WCS.  I'm guessing too but seems to me he'll eventually make it, just not for 3 or 4 years worst case.

[Boris Badenov]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

My guess is you are wrong. My guess is, and it is just a guess but I think its a fairly good one, but my guess is that there will be at least one player that will be absolutely as big a failure and bust as Melo or Giddens taken somewhere between 1 and 15.

I disagree, Nick. For anyone taken in the top 15 this year to be as bad as those guys would be a complete outlier relative to recent history.

Melo is out of the league after playing a total of 36 minutes of NBA ball. Giddens played a total of 247 minutes.

In the last ten drafts leading up to 2012, exactly zero players (out of 150 total) taken in the top 15 have played fewer than 247 minutes in their careers. None.

There are other metrics of course but I think by any standard there are but a couple of players out of those 150 who've been as bad as those two. I can't find one, to be honest.

You can go take a look here.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

(In fact I think you can argue pretty easily that setting aside a few guys who never played due to injury, and a couple of guys who stayed in Europe, Melo and Giddens are two of the worst 3-5 first round picks of the last decade, out of 300 or so total players taken.)

[CFAN38]

agree with BPA approaach but this thread asks about fit.  So Cauley Stein is
that, a great fit.

His lack of offense isn't a good reason not to take him.  People are clamoring for Asik
and he has no offense either.  The nice thing about having a point guard like Rondo
is you can maximize the offensive output of guys who aren't natural scorers.

The only question with Cauley Stein for me is:  What's his defensive potential?
Seems to me he remains a bit mysterious in that regard.  Has he shown a high IQ
on the defensive end?  Not talking about blocks, but nuts and bolts defense.

Please enlighten me or throw out predictions on this guy's defense.

These are WCS issues

- on the offensive end, he has poor hands to catch difficult lobs or bounce passes.  no post skills. Strictly dunks and sometimes shows surprising ability to drive to the net for a layup

- On the defensive end he gets manhandled at times. Its not for the lack of effort. But unlike say Sullinger who is hard to push off position, WCS can be moved without alot of fuss. He has a weak base, thin waist. This is another reason why he is a poor defensive rebounder

If he can add 20 more pounds of muscle,  he will be a decent NBA center. Just too quick , athletic + length. But the worry is, can he really add muscle? He doesn't look any bigger from last year. Either its very difficult to add or he didn't try hard enough in the off season (either case bad news).

Right now he is not ready. He is strictly a center without a center body.

I totally agree with the worry about his hands, but I think physically be is near ideal for the current nba center. I have no doubt that strength will not be a problem there are plentyl of skinny centers in the current nba and I think WCS will at least fill out to the level of chandler. He doesn't have a bosh like frame by any means

[hpantazo]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

My guess is you are wrong. My guess is, and it is just a guess but I think its a fairly good one, but my guess is that there will be at least one player that will be absolutely as big a failure and bust as Melo or Giddens taken somewhere between 1 and 15.

I think there will be at least 2-3 players in that range that will be Giddens/Fab Melo/Darko type of busts, and maybe 1 Oden/Roy type of bust.

[nickagneta]

As the Celtics are going to win their next 24 games, this whole lottery discussion is moot....trade the pick.

It's not moot.  We are bound to land some good talent with the 15th and 19th picks.

not necessarily.  Could nab a JR Giddens and Fab Melo with the picks.

Let's split the difference and say we land a Rajon Rondo or a Jared Sullinger with one and a JR Giddens or a Fab Melo with the other.  That seems like a fair compromise between optimism and pessimism.

Haha!  Well,   I can't say there'll be anyone as good as Rondo or Sullinger, but I guarantee there's no one in that range as bad as Giddens and Melo.  To reach that level in this draft I'd say you need to starting looking in the late 30's...barring disaster or incompetence mind you.

My guess is you are wrong. My guess is, and it is just a guess but I think its a fairly good one, but my guess is that there will be at least one player that will be absolutely as big a failure and bust as Melo or Giddens taken somewhere between 1 and 15.

I disagree, Nick. For anyone taken in the top 15 this year to be as bad as those guys would be a complete outlier relative to recent history.

Melo is out of the league after playing a total of 36 minutes of NBA ball. Giddens played a total of 247 minutes.

In the last ten drafts leading up to 2012, exactly zero players (out of 150 total) taken in the top 15 have played fewer than 247 minutes in their careers. None.

There are other metrics of course but I think by any standard there are but a couple of players out of those 150 who've been as bad as those two. I can't find one, to be honest.

You can go take a look here.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2012.html

(In fact I think you can argue pretty easily that setting aside a few guys who never played due to injury, and a couple of guys who stayed in Europe, Melo and Giddens are two of the worst 3-5 first round picks of the last decade, out of 300 or so total players taken.)

Joe Alexander...chosen 8th less than 800 minutes total. God awful. Cedric Simmons ... chosen 15th. Same thing.

Now maybe not on the same scale as Melo or Giddens, but ask fans of teams if the difference in being a total and complete bust and a major bust matters, but other busts that come to mind that were fairly epic are Thabeet, Cole Aldrich, Jonny Flynn, Yi Jianlian, Julian Wirght, Luke Jackson, Raphael Arujao, Sean May, Yaroslav Korolev, Adam Morrison, Patrick O'Bryant, Mohammed Sene, and that's not even trying hard to look for busts nor does it include the biggest of the bench due to injury, Greg Oden.

[csfansince60s]

agree with BPA approaach but this thread asks about fit.  So Cauley Stein is
that, a great fit.

His lack of offense isn't a good reason not to take him.  People are clamoring for Asik
and he has no offense either.  The nice thing about having a point guard like Rondo
is you can maximize the offensive output of guys who aren't natural scorers.

The only question with Cauley Stein for me is:  What's his defensive potential?
Seems to me he remains a bit mysterious in that regard.  Has he shown a high IQ
on the defensive end?  Not talking about blocks, but nuts and bolts defense.

Please enlighten me or throw out predictions on this guy's defense.

These are WCS issues

- on the offensive end, he has poor hands to catch difficult lobs or bounce passes.  no post skills. Strictly dunks and sometimes shows surprising ability to drive to the net for a layup

- On the defensive end he gets manhandled at times. Its not for the lack of effort. But unlike say Sullinger who is hard to push off position, WCS can be moved without alot of fuss. He has a weak base, thin waist. This is another reason why he is a poor defensive rebounder

If he can add 20 more pounds of muscle,  he will be a decent NBA center. Just too quick , athletic + length. But the worry is, can he really add muscle? He doesn't look any bigger from last year. Either its very difficult to add or he didn't try hard enough in the off season (either case bad news).

Right now he is not ready. He is strictly a center without a center body.

While I disagree about both WCS "bad hands" and his body, I don't think we will pick him, unless our first pick is between 10 and 14. He's not good enough to take with our first pick, but he definitely won't be there for our second, so his selection by us is a moot issue, I believe.

I don't believe the knock on his hands. He was a pretty accomplished WR in high school, who plucked balls out of the air, often one-handed.

http://youtu.be/VjNZtUGl4Ko

Also, nbadraft.net says this:

: Very fluid... Light on his feet... At 7-feet 1/2" with a 7'-foot-2 1/2" wingspan, possesses great height and length ... Has very good hands ... Can catch tough passes and shows toughness, something that was likely developed during his time as a wide receiver on his high school football team ... Plays within himself; does not force the issue ... An above average shot blocker; does a good job of seeking shot blocking opportunities. God timing and shows the ability not to bite on fakes and get into foul trouble ... A decent rebounder ... Has a good "nose for the ball"; due to his size gets himself many opportunities for put back dunks and tip ins... The big man has soft hands and potential to improve his scoring, displaying solid shooting touch ..]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/willie-cauley-stein

Also, the knock on his body above sounds like a description of Jajuan Johnson. WCS is stronger, 20+ pounds heavier and far more balanced and athletic than JJJ.

I'd definitely take a shot with him in the 9-14 range.