I like the way the Celtics play without Rondo

[sunnyd656]

Reasons

1) Team passing increases. This causes lots of issues for opposing teams to play defense. When Rondo is in the game , players are usually standing around more.

2) The team scores more baskets in transition.

3) We got guys like Sullinger, Olynyk and Wallace that can pass. And they get to pass more without Rondo. Also helps boost their games


Also don't we have a pretty decent record without Jcraw or Rondo this year so far?

If we or when we trade Rondo, i don't mind us getting a pg more like Bayless (better version). Not a pure pg, but has some skill and is a constant threat to shoot the ball to open up the floor more.

The last point i wanted to make was, if you rewatch some of the 2008 season games (especially in the playoffs), the ball is being shared alot. Rondo didn't have it in his hands much longer than paul pierce and at times KG did. We had a deadly offense bc the defense didn't know where we will go alot of the times. Teams like the pacers and heat have adopted to play this kind of basketball and the heat have won 2 rings now.

k

[Tr1boy]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

Did you account for pace? Like why would he want a slower pace playing with KG and PP and who the nmbench players were, things like age and whether the players were quicker who played on the bench? Slower pace means less shots/less assists. RR hasn't had a team where you could run, is what you're seeing now RR changing or is it b/c the players around him have changed? Then account for the system the coach runs. I don't get how all the blame can be accredited to RR. It's funny that pace is something blamed on RR as if that pace wasn't w/ a winning team and if not for injuries, who knows. I also remember some posting something about how RR doesn't hold the ball any longer than guys like CP3.

Oh so they picked up the pace last season w/o RR? What did that leave us with? An exhausted and banged up core... seasons past the playoffs were when we hit our stride not what we looked like last season. I don't get why anyone would want to speed up and wear down PP and KG especially when the way they played always allowed for some of the best FG efficiency in the league.

People talked abt rebounds alot too but Mia isn't a good rebounding team either, wouldn't you know they have one of if not the best team FG%. You're not going to get a rb on a made basket. RR knowing who to pass it to and when is a big reason why we always shot the ball very well.

We still made the playoffs. Who knows if we would of with RR. We lost so many games with him taking control of the ball.

And he still has barely changed. Just bc we beat up on the magic and 76rs doesnt mean we r suddenly a great team. I like the way we played yesterday better. On both ends of the court.

  Hopefully he hasn't changed much. He's been a dominant player in the postseason and he's led the team to the finals and the ecf in recent years. I'd like to see more of the same.

Watch 2008-2012 rondo vs 2013 and current. Rondo had less assists in 2008-2012 but was a better player.

So he has changed. I dont think you acknowledge the two different versions of rondo

[BballTim]

I think the points the OP makes about Rondo holding the ball too much Were true in the past.  If you check the numbers, you will see that in seasons prior to this, we actually had more team assists when Rondo was injured.  That is different than on court of court numbers.  The second unit, in general without Rondo, did get less assists than the first unit with Rondo (people will quibble with my numbers if I am not clear).

I have to give Rondo credit though because what I see now is Rondo making an effort to push the ball more.  I also see better balance between always trying to make the pass for the assist and just making the next pass.  He is also being a little more scoring-minded.  These are all things that I criticized Rondo for in the past (and I believe justifiably) but now I see a player trying to make adjustments.

Rondo is still Rondo and is a flawed player but have to give him credit for what he is trying to do.

Did you account for pace? Like why would he want a slower pace playing with KG and PP and who the nmbench players were, things like age and whether the players were quicker who played on the bench? Slower pace means less shots/less assists. RR hasn't had a team where you could run, is what you're seeing now RR changing or is it b/c the players around him have changed? Then account for the system the coach runs. I don't get how all the blame can be accredited to RR. It's funny that pace is something blamed on RR as if that pace wasn't w/ a winning team and if not for injuries, who knows. I also remember some posting something about how RR doesn't hold the ball any longer than guys like CP3.

Oh so they picked up the pace last season w/o RR? What did that leave us with? An exhausted and banged up core... seasons past the playoffs were when we hit our stride not what we looked like last season. I don't get why anyone would want to speed up and wear down PP and KG especially when the way they played always allowed for some of the best FG efficiency in the league.

People talked abt rebounds alot too but Mia isn't a good rebounding team either, wouldn't you know they have one of if not the best team FG%. You're not going to get a rb on a made basket. RR knowing who to pass it to and when is a big reason why we always shot the ball very well.

We still made the playoffs. Who knows if we would of with RR. We lost so many games with him taking control of the ball.

And he still has barely changed. Just bc we beat up on the magic and 76rs doesnt mean we r suddenly a great team. I like the way we played yesterday better. On both ends of the court.

  Hopefully he hasn't changed much. He's been a dominant player in the postseason and he's led the team to the finals and the ecf in recent years. I'd like to see more of the same.

Watch 2008-2012 rondo vs 2013 and current. Rondo had less assists in 2008-2012 but was a better player.

So he has changed. I dont think you acknowledge the two different versions of rondo

  Rondo isn't playing the same way he did last year because he's playing with different teammates and for a different coach. I don't think you're acknowledging the fact that most of the posters in this thread disagree with your observations, as do most of the stats point to the opposite of what you're seeing.

[SHAQATTACK]

Having Rondo s experience and skills at the end of a close game allows the Celtics a bit better chance to close out for the win.

I see the increased confidence of other players when Rondo is on the court , they believe in him......this has a incalculable value to the team ......especially when th deal is about to fall apart.

So far I like the Pace of the  game  set by Rondo......

This is a whole new team for Rondo to figure out.....and for the team to anticipate Rondo...moves

So far I m seein encouraging play from Rondo and his attempt to fit in to his teammates ..playing styles

What more at this point can you want?

[Kc2135]

here is a quick little chart of how things have went pre an post Rondo, besides Sully he was made everyone score better, he even doubles Wallace's output:

here is a link if you cant see it in the pst http://i.imgur.com/mMepg7b.jpg

TP. Did you make that?

Sully's drop in production should also be accounted for by the fact that he's had a hand injury.

I made it

[Tr1boy]

- Rondo had a near triple double , yet we still lost today
- Wallace, Olynyk, Sullinger, Bayless were ineffective
- Rondo stood around most of the 4th quarter hoping that someone will get open instead of initiating the offense
- Rondo played poor defense in the 2nd half that helped us get destroyed

I understand Rondo is still not 100 percent.

Simple question. IF Rondo and Avery Bryant didn't play, could we have won tonight?

[Kc2135]

No, maybe if CJ layed ABs minutes we would have won.

[Tr1boy]

No, maybe if CJ layed ABs minutes we would have won.

Maybe but not likely.  Dallas was toying with us in the 2nd half with our starting lineup. Dirk the last level boss didnt even need to play in the 4th quarter

[RJ87]

No, maybe if CJ layed ABs minutes we would have won.

Maybe but not likely.  Dallas was toying with us in the 2nd half with our starting lineup. Dirk the last level boss didnt even need to play in the 4th quarter

Dallas is a better team. If they were in the eastern conference, they'd be a top 4 seed. We weren't built to beat good teams.

With that said, if Rondo didn't play tonight this would've been an embarrassing blow out. (See how I made a definitive without being able to prove it?)

[PhoSita]

The main thing that concerns me about Rondo's play of late is that he's not getting to the free throw line hardly at all.  Maybe that's not such a big deal because he's a poor free throw shooter, but generating free throws puts pressure on the defense even if you don't make them.

[BASS_THUMPER]

Rondo will never be the same without
 Kevin
 Paul
 Leon
 Eddie
 Doc

we were the A team
now we are the C- team

[Quetzalcoatl]

The main thing that concerns me about Rondo's play of late is that he's not getting to the free throw line hardly at all.  Maybe that's not such a big deal because he's a poor free throw shooter, but generating free throws puts pressure on the defense even if you don't make them.

Rondo is basically high grade oil for a car.  If you have a Lamborghini around you, then the car will perform on a level that most cars will never realize.  If you put it in some Soviet era jalopy, it will still be a terrible car.  He's not a one man super star like LeBron, but if he even had one other elite player next to him our team would skyrocket in the standings. 

He's really his own deal and you can't really compare him to anyone.  He is one of the most entertaining players in the league and he has proven championship credentials; we are all lucky he is a Celtic.  What else can you ask for?

[paidthecost2betheboss]

The main thing that concerns me about Rondo's play of late is that he's not getting to the free throw line hardly at all.  Maybe that's not such a big deal because he's a poor free throw shooter, but generating free throws puts pressure on the defense even if you don't make them.

Rondo is basically high grade oil for a car.  If you have a Lamborghini around you, then the car will perform on a level that most cars will never realize.  If you put it in some Soviet era jalopy, it will still be a terrible car.  He's not a one man super star like LeBron, but if he even had one other elite player next to him our team would skyrocket in the standings. 

He's really his own deal and you can't really compare him to anyone.  He is one of the most entertaining players in the league and he has proven championship credentials; we are all lucky he is a Celtic.  What else can you ask for?

I read the bolded part and imagined you hitting a bong while typing..then it made total sense...good analogy.

Maybe made too much sense

**puts  own bong down....walks away**

[Boris Badenov]

No, maybe if CJ layed ABs minutes we would have won.

Maybe but not likely.  Dallas was toying with us in the 2nd half with our starting lineup. Dirk the last level boss didnt even need to play in the 4th quarter

Dallas is a better team. If they were in the eastern conference, they'd be a top 4 seed. We weren't built to beat good teams.

With that said, if Rondo didn't play tonight this would've been an embarrassing blow out. (See how I made a definitive without being able to prove it?)

You could improve your definitive yet unprovable statement if it was actually really much more vague. Like, "when Rondo plays we do not have the same ability to be energetic on offense." Or, "without Rondo we have a more aggressive attitude in the open court."

The key as far as I can tell is that the definitive statement cannot be tied to any demonstrable fact. That is what makes it truly unprovable, and provability only gets you in trouble, because people will start tearing down your statements with those pesky facts.

[Mazingerz]

You know hindsight is alway 20/20.

Rondo may not be the best player in the NBA right now, but he makes the team better. I am not generalizing, the stats are there, previous posts already have taken note of this.

I really don't understand why this obssession to trade/get rid of Rondo.

He is the team, players do better with him on the court (again see stats);