Cavaliers finally making the right move

[PhoSita]

Rarely see this sort of thing happen midseason.  Really speaks to the level of incompetence there.

  I posted this in another thread, but it's hard to go through the trade deadline with a GM that's trying to make trades that will save his job. What if he decides to trade Bennett and a #1 for Humphries because he thinks they might end up with more wins this year?

That's a good point.

[Fafnir]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

That one thing is pretty significant though - they've had 4 picks that could've really been something. Kyrie Irving was a no-brainer and despite his lack for improvement from his rookie year, he's still a very talented young All-star. But Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett were reaches and not good ones. Grant was drafting based on need instead getting the best player available. That's fine for the second round when the risk isn't so high, but in the top 5? You have to draft talent. They feasibly could've had Kyrie Irving / Jonas Valanciunas / Harrison Barnes / Victor Oladipo or Ben McLemore.

They could really have a good team by now. It's ashame those opportunities were wasted.

Drafting the right players is probably the hardest thing for a GM, especially in the draft lotteries they were high in. Not many no brainer selections in my book, though clearly better picks were available.

Specifically very few GMs are consistently good, every one of them has their busts and the rate is way higher than fan expectations.

Remember he got the pick that was Irving in a trade, got two first round picks from the Lakers for Sesssions. He's amde a ton of good rebuilding moves.

[Moranis]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

That one thing is pretty significant though - they've had 4 picks that could've really been something. Kyrie Irving was a no-brainer and despite his lack for improvement from his rookie year, he's still a very talented young All-star. But Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett were reaches and not good ones. Grant was drafting based on need instead getting the best player available. That's fine for the second round when the risk isn't so high, but in the top 5? You have to draft talent.

They could really have a good team by now. It's ashame those opportunities were wasted.

Thompson and Waiters were a bit of a reach, but if you redid those drafts based on actual production Thompson probably goes like 6 or 7 and Waiters goes right around 4.

The problem is they just don't fit very well as a unit and I think a lot of that (aside from coaching) is Irving.

[pearljammer10]

Definitely thought the thread was going to say

"Cavs fire Mike Brown"

And was pretty shocked when it didnt say that.

[Q_FBE]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 15s

The Cleveland Cavaliers have fired general manager Chris Grant, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Next Gilbert.

Move it to Seattle and let me run it 

Fire the coach. He clearly is not nba caliber. Failed with Lebron. Got chased out of LA back to Cleveland. That's one franchise that should be erased and moved to Seattle

[RJ87]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

That one thing is pretty significant though - they've had 4 picks that could've really been something. Kyrie Irving was a no-brainer and despite his lack for improvement from his rookie year, he's still a very talented young All-star. But Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett were reaches and not good ones. Grant was drafting based on need instead getting the best player available. That's fine for the second round when the risk isn't so high, but in the top 5? You have to draft talent.

They could really have a good team by now. It's ashame those opportunities were wasted.

Thompson and Waiters were a bit of a reach, but if you redid those drafts based on actual production Thompson probably goes like 6 or 7 and Waiters goes right around 4.

The problem is they just don't fit very well as a unit and I think a lot of that (aside from coaching) is Irving.

Agree there. I think Irving has a ton of talent but he strikes me as a guy who can't hold himself accountable. I also worry about the lack of progression in his game and what that says about his work ethic in the offseason. The question for the new GM becomes, do we consider trading Irving? At the very least, in expect them to bring in a coach that can really coach these players instead of babysitting them.I actually think Doug Collins or even Vinny Del Negro could make sense. Neither one is going to get you to a championship but they've proven they can establish a repoire with younger players. I think Cleveland needs that more than anything else right now.

[manl_lui]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

That one thing is pretty significant though - they've had 4 picks that could've really been something. Kyrie Irving was a no-brainer and despite his lack for improvement from his rookie year, he's still a very talented young All-star. But Thompson, Waiters, and Bennett were reaches and not good ones. Grant was drafting based on need instead getting the best player available. That's fine for the second round when the risk isn't so high, but in the top 5? You have to draft talent. They feasibly could've had Kyrie Irving / Jonas Valanciunas / Harrison Barnes / Victor Oladipo or Ben McLemore.

They could really have a good team by now. It's ashame those opportunities were wasted.

I agree, to an extent. 

However, I will say that Cleveland lucked out into the wrong drafts to have top 5 picks.  Those were some pretty down drafts. 

However, in retrospect, you can certainly say that they could've picked better and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong.

well Waiters isn't that bad, the real problem is their ability to control those players as well. What Deng said, that team is a giant mess. No discipline at all. You need a coach that will lay down the ground rules from the get go and won't take anything. I think it's kind of too late for the Cavs at this point because Irving is basically given the Lebron treatment and he's still a kid. That entire team of players are almost children. You need a team of men, not children. You can never win with children.

Kinda feel bad for Deng now.

In my opinion, there is a no "who is next to go" for the Cavs. They need to fire everybody from top to bottom starting from Gilbert all the way down to Brown.

They need a GM like Danny Ainge, or Pat Riley down there and a veteran coach like Doc, Phil Jackson, Popovich. They need to lay down the rules "listen, do your job, or get shipped out".

The way I see it, the Cavs looks like they have no game plan going forward.

[Roy H.]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

I'd say he was pretty bad at a few things:  drafting, signing free agents, constructing a roster, hiring a competent coach.

The one thing that he was good at was getting good value in trades.  His instincts were right about how to rebuild:  take on salary in return for draft picks.  Doing that, he picked up extra picks from the Cavs, Lakers, Grizzlies, etc.  He did very well in that regard. 

Unfortunately, most everything else was poorly done.

[KGs Knee]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 15s

The Cleveland Cavaliers have fired general manager Chris Grant, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Next Gilbert.

Can't say I'm at all surprised Grant was fired.  He was just terrible.

That said, Grant is not the root cause of the Cavs problem.  Those can be directly attributed to ownership.  Can't fire the owner unfortunately.

The only way I could see the league forcing out Gilbert is if he goes broke.  He ain't going broke.  Basically, Cleveland is screwed, which is par for the course for a team from the "Mistake by the lake".

[Roy H.]

By the way, people understand that the Cavs aren't going to "fire" Dan Gilbert, right?  He's the owner; he's there to stay.

What they need to do is hire a strong coach who can stand up to a meddling owner.  Lionel Hollins has shown the willingness to do that.  I'd give him a call.

[Fafnir]

Grant wasn't that bad except at one thing, drafting with all those high lottery picks.

Still need to clean house, sadly the ownership is the biggest issue.

I'd say he was pretty bad at a few things:  drafting, signing free agents, constructing a roster, hiring a competent coach.

The one thing that he was good at was getting good value in trades.  His instincts were right about how to rebuild:  take on salary in return for draft picks.  Doing that, he picked up extra picks from the Cavs, Lakers, Grizzlies, etc.  He did very well in that regard. 

Unfortunately, most everything else was poorly done.

His mistakes in my view mostly came this year.

Bynum and Jack loom large in my mind as well as hiring Mike Brown.

The first two came from the ownership declaration that they'd win this year. As for Mike Brown, honestly I blame Gilbert for that one. There is no way Grant only interviews one candidate without Gilbert pushing him.

[Fafnir]

By the way, people understand that the Cavs aren't going to "fire" Dan Gilbert, right?  He's the owner; he's there to stay.

What they need to do is hire a strong coach who can stand up to a meddling owner.  Lionel Hollins has shown the willingness to do that.  I'd give him a call.

Maybe. Hiring a coach who will pick fights with an owner isn't a great move unless they're empowered. Doc is with Sterling for now at least. Can Hollins do that?

I still think the expectations caught up with them. Unfounded ones based on "stardom" rather than true talent and play on the court.

Blake Griffin was heading this way till the CP3 trade too, though he at least improved quite a bit by his third year even under VDN.

[Roy H.]

As for Mike Brown, honestly I blame Gilbert for that one. There is no way Grant only interviews one candidate without Gilbert pushing him.

Yeah, that's probably true.

There was a well-done article laying out Grant's tenure yesterday:

http://www.fearthesword.com/2014/2/5/5365782/cavaliers-2013-14-has-chris-grants-tenure-been-a-failure

[LooseCannon]

Woj has reported that Grant was the one who pushed to hire Mike Brown, so it might not be right to place all of the blame for that decision on Dan Gilbert.

[Moranis]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-cleveland-lost-its-way--and-lost-a-chance-at-lebron-s-return-023906652-nba.html

Some very interesting stuff from Woj on Chris Grant.