why did Rondo come back?

[moiso]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

If you think Indiana has no shot this year, you are sorely mistaken.

They don't. Paul George can't do it by himself. I think they need to add someone (Ironically a Rondo type PG) to open it up for George and Hibbert. Heat are too strong

George doesn't have to do it by himself.  They have a lot of talent.  And how does a worse shooting pg "open it up" more than a better shooting pg?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

You first said Indiana has no shot of winning... That's absolutely not true, they are the best team in the NBA right now and one of the best defense if not the top team. They are stacked from starters to bench. 

Second, what makes you sure Rondo is going to leave? They are talking extensions already.

Third, trading Rondo is backwards thinking. You have an All Star in his prime in your hands and you trade him just for the sake of getting what, assets, lesser talent? We have plenty of it already. It's now a matter of adding more better talent using that assets with Rondo to be competitive.

You don't trade Paul Pierce in 2008 to win the championship, you trade your young guys that are good, your draft picks and surround him with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. A lot of teams traded their stars to rebuild took a while to be relevant, we don't need that. We already have the assets. You keep your proven player unless you trade him for equal talent, and move away the others to get better. Not the other way around.

And lastly, tanking is NOT the only solution, ask 2011 Dallas. The Mavs were always in the Playoffs and did not get over the hump for, geez IDK, 10 years. But they never traded Nowitzki, they made good moves to land Tyson Chandler and Shawn Marion in that span, also Jason Terry. Hired a better coach and in 2010 they figured it out. You have a top 50 player in the league, you keep him. We have the assets, we're getting a top 10 pick without even trying to tank, we're set up to build a contending team as EARLY as next season.

You use those highlighted guys and try to land a better talent than they are, instead of giving away your all star. Just like when Dallas traded their young gun Devin Harris for Jason Kidd and Josh Howard (a young All Star before knee injuries) for Caron Butler. Use the expiring contracts to trade for a talent who's clearly good but stuck in a bad situation, like when Dallas traded for Chandler. Sign Free Agents smartly, like Shawn Marion.

[RJ87]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

The goal of 06-07 was to get a Oden or Durant and despite our best tanking efforts we still ended up with the #5 pick. We were fortunate that Ray & KG were available or that would've been a disaster. And do you think KG agrees to be traded here if Paul isn't here already? Not a chance. So there's merit to keeping Rondo in place, no one is going to want a trade here or to sign here to play with with KO and Phil Pressey (if you think those 2 are building blocks, you have no credibility). The draft, even with one of the worst records in the league, is not a guarantee. Luckily Ainge knows that, and I'm sure he has other contingency plans in place.

KO and Pressey are certainly not building blocks. They're cheap backups though that can come in and give you 20 minutes. Paul should have been traded from the go and Boston should have tanked for Rose the following year. That way you have Big Al, G-Money, Paul Pierce Assets, Rose, Perk and Rondo. Not bad at all.

Tanking is the only solution.

And then you don't have a title in '08 and you're probably still chasing your first since '86.   What the heck are Rose & Rondo going to do together?

Not only do we not have Banner 17, but we have a perpetual losing team in your scenario.

Are you sure you're serious cb8883?

[cb8883]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

The goal of 06-07 was to get a Oden or Durant and despite our best tanking efforts we still ended up with the #5 pick. We were fortunate that Ray & KG were available or that would've been a disaster. And do you think KG agrees to be traded here if Paul isn't here already? Not a chance. So there's merit to keeping Rondo in place, no one is going to want a trade here or to sign here to play with with KO and Phil Pressey (if you think those 2 are building blocks, you have no credibility). The draft, even with one of the worst records in the league, is not a guarantee. Luckily Ainge knows that, and I'm sure he has other contingency plans in place.

KO and Pressey are certainly not building blocks. They're cheap backups though that can come in and give you 20 minutes. Paul should have been traded from the go and Boston should have tanked for Rose the following year. That way you have Big Al, G-Money, Paul Pierce Assets, Rose, Perk and Rondo. Not bad at all.

Tanking is the only solution.

And then you don't have a title in '08 and you're probably still chasing your first since '86.   What the heck are Rose & Rondo going to do together?

Not only do we not have Banner 17, but we have a perpetual losing team in your scenario.

Are you sure you're serious cb8883?

Rose and Rondo is a losing back court? Big Al doesn't dominate in the east? That's not a treadmill squad at all. The squad we currently have is a treadmill squad. They need to be gutted and bottom out. Sullinger might be a key cog not sure yet. Anyone on low money deals and young should be kept. Rondo needs to go. He's too old by the time the Celtics can be good again.

[sed522002]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

The goal of 06-07 was to get a Oden or Durant and despite our best tanking efforts we still ended up with the #5 pick. We were fortunate that Ray & KG were available or that would've been a disaster. And do you think KG agrees to be traded here if Paul isn't here already? Not a chance. So there's merit to keeping Rondo in place, no one is going to want a trade here or to sign here to play with with KO and Phil Pressey (if you think those 2 are building blocks, you have no credibility). The draft, even with one of the worst records in the league, is not a guarantee. Luckily Ainge knows that, and I'm sure he has other contingency plans in place.

KO and Pressey are certainly not building blocks. They're cheap backups though that can come in and give you 20 minutes. Paul should have been traded from the go and Boston should have tanked for Rose the following year. That way you have Big Al, G-Money, Paul Pierce Assets, Rose, Perk and Rondo. Not bad at all.

Tanking is the only solution.

And then you don't have a title in '08 and you're probably still chasing your first since '86.   What the heck are Rose & Rondo going to do together?

Not only do we not have Banner 17, but we have a perpetual losing team in your scenario.

Are you sure you're serious cb8883?

Rose and Rondo is a losing back court? Big Al doesn't dominate in the east? That's not a treadmill squad at all. The squad we currently have is a treadmill squad. They need to be gutted and bottom out. Sullinger might be a key cog not sure yet. Anyone on low money deals and young should be kept. Rondo needs to go. He's too old by the time the Celtics can be good again.

What type of spacing do think we'd have with Rondo/Rose...neither one none for their outside shot, but can beast in the paint.

[BballTim]

I think Rondo is over rated as well.  When you put stars like KG Ray and Paul around anyone they will look good.  The comparison to Chalmers is far fetched but then again Chalmers with Paul KG and Ray may have looked like a star too because all you need to do is pass them the ball and take risks on defense.

  That might have been true in 2008 or 2009. It really hasn't been the case since then. If the thinking is that PP/KG/RA were such great players that they made Rondo look great then as their play eroded they'd have been less able to make him look good, especially when Ray was in Miami.That's not what happened at all.
 

[BballTim]

The idea that Rondo isn't a shot creator is a really strange one. That's the biggest part of his game!

He's not a scorer by nature.

  It doesn't seem to count unless he takes the actual shot.

[sed522002]

I think Rondo is over rated as well.  When you put stars like KG Ray and Paul around anyone they will look good.  The comparison to Chalmers is far fetched but then again Chalmers with Paul KG and Ray may have looked like a star too because all you need to do is pass them the ball and take risks on defense.

  That might have been true in 2008 or 2009. It really hasn't been the case since then. If the thinking is that PP/KG/RA were such great players that they made Rondo look great then as their play eroded they'd have been less able to make him look good, especially when Ray was in Miami.That's not what happened at all.

Right, the 2012 playoffs was proof. That team was carried by KG and Rondo with a sprinkle of PP and Ray was a shell with his bone spurs.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

The goal of 06-07 was to get a Oden or Durant and despite our best tanking efforts we still ended up with the #5 pick. We were fortunate that Ray & KG were available or that would've been a disaster. And do you think KG agrees to be traded here if Paul isn't here already? Not a chance. So there's merit to keeping Rondo in place, no one is going to want a trade here or to sign here to play with with KO and Phil Pressey (if you think those 2 are building blocks, you have no credibility). The draft, even with one of the worst records in the league, is not a guarantee. Luckily Ainge knows that, and I'm sure he has other contingency plans in place.

KO and Pressey are certainly not building blocks. They're cheap backups though that can come in and give you 20 minutes. Paul should have been traded from the go and Boston should have tanked for Rose the following year. That way you have Big Al, G-Money, Paul Pierce Assets, Rose, Perk and Rondo. Not bad at all.

Tanking is the only solution.

And then you don't have a title in '08 and you're probably still chasing your first since '86.   What the heck are Rose & Rondo going to do together?

Not only do we not have Banner 17, but we have a perpetual losing team in your scenario.

Are you sure you're serious cb8883?

Rose and Rondo is a losing back court? Big Al doesn't dominate in the east? That's not a treadmill squad at all. The squad we currently have is a treadmill squad. They need to be gutted and bottom out. Sullinger might be a key cog not sure yet. Anyone on low money deals and young should be kept. Rondo needs to go. He's too old by the time the Celtics can be good again.

What makes you so sure that we could have drafted Rose?

We cant see ahead in the future, and you're only using this argument right now because you see what D-Rose turned out to be. But if we go back 2008, who knows, maybe he stayed one more year, maybe he got injured, maybe, JUST MAYBE, we mistakenly drafted Michael Beasley or OJ Mayo instead. We cant use this kind of argument as we don't know what will happen ahead of time. Just because it happened now doesnt mean it will repeat itself if we geta Delorean and go back.

[Donoghus]

There's no way that Danny drafts Rose in '08 with Rondo already on the roster.  And I doubt Danny is giving up on Rondo after his rookie year even if Rose is dangling there.

Celtics are either drafting Beasley or trying to trade down there.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

There's no way that Danny drafts Rose in '08 with Rondo already on the roster.  And I doubt Danny is giving up on Rondo after his rookie year even if Rose is dangling there.

Celtics are either drafting Beasley or trying to trade down there.

We're not even sure if we're getting the number 1 pick that year, let alone drafting Rose or Beasley. It's a complete mystery. And just because it happened one way doesnt mean it will again by just reverting back in time.

[Finkelskyhook]

why are we battling to beat Philly in Philly. There is no reason to go all out in these games and risk Rondo re-injuring his knee.

How does winning this year help the Celtics? I challenge anyone that is against tanking to explain how winning this year helps the Celtics in the long run?

Boston has not attracted level 1 free agents so we are compelled to build through the draft and trades. Winning meaningless games will set this franchise back years.

Suck it up and get on the tank train.

Seriously...Have you ever bought a ticket to an NBA game?  They're freaking expensive.  Would you pay to watch a team embarrass themselves on purpose as Rivers allowed in 06-07?  Do you understand why players play? 

You don't hire a coach on a 6 year contract to promote a losing culture.  Geez, ogaju...If you want to get on the "tank train"...Go to Charlotte.  It's worked out great for them year after year.

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. All of you anti tankers that want to keep the Celtics as a treadmill squad are lacking vision. You cannot win in the NBA without a superstar, cannot be done. That's why Indiana has no shot and the Heat win every year. OKC is always close to the top because of Durant and Westbrook (both high picks). If you want the Celtics to be stuck in 35-40 win land year after year in a terrible conference then that's your deal. Ask fans in Milwaukee how that's worked for the last decade. That's a hopeless future especially for Boston which will never be a free agent destination. You need to trade Rondo ASAP for anything. He's going to leave, that's a given. He's going to be 30 soon, that's a given. He's also going to be paid by some desperate franchise a max contract. Don't turn the Celtics into a joke like the Knicks. I don't care if they have a 30 million dollar payroll the next few years. Blow this up! Trade everyone but Sully KO and Pressey and start over.

Exactly how do you figure on 2008?  Had we not tanked...We'd have been in the same draft position or very close.  We weren't that good to begin with.  When we overtly embarrassed ourselves by sitting Pierce for the season after his 50pt game and sat the best available players we had until we "clinched" the second worst record...Stern gave us the worst possible draft position.  Do you think the Ray Allen trade doesn't happen if our draft position is 7th-10th instead of 5th?  Do you think the Garnett trade doesn't happen if we didn't tank?  I would contend that if you're actually coaching to win instead of coaching to lose.  Actually implementing an defensive concept beyond blitzing..Our players have more value and we're not trading 3/4s of the roster to get Garnett and Allen.

[Depalma2002]

If it wasn't for tanking we wouldn't have a title in 2008. 

Actually, if they let Pierce come back from his injury when he probably could have instead of holding him out for tanking purposes, perhaps they win an extra 7 or 8 games. You're right that would have been a disaster. That would have put us in Seattle or Portland's position. Whew! Narrowly escaped having to draft Kevin Durant.

Hopefully, these extra wins that Rondo gets us doesn't put us in a position where we have to draft Joel Embiid. The horror!

[LooseCannon]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

"Shot creation" is an over-rated skill.

[Fafnir]

No one wants Rondo to fail. I just want people to accept the truth that without KG PP etc the guy is a glorified role player. He plays hard most of the time but he can't create his own shot. He really isn't that good! I want him to be healthy and succeed just not in Boston. Send him to a place where he will be surrounded by good players that can create shots and could benefit from a PG like Rondo.

"Shot creation" is an over-rated skill.

Depends on how you define it.

Creating good looks for teammates based on your actions is immensely valuable. LeBron James makes things so easy for his teammates, Dwight Howard in the 1 in 4 out was a monster at creating room for his team to get great shots, etc.

Getting shots for yourself is overvalued more often than not. Shooting a good percentage on relatively low value looks is immensely over rated. (Hi LaMarcus!)