Tommy on Olynyk

[krumeto]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

http://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/1xx9rs/hows_olynyks_defense_coming_along/

Well here's a pretty good (IMO) analysis of Olynyk's defensive performance vs. the Spurs. FWIW

TP for the find. Objective and to-the-point.

[vinnie]

KO's ceiling is second or third guy off the bench. Good complementary piece. I hope he gets there.

As for Tommy, he knows more about basketball than everyone on this board. That said, I feel he is an embarrassment as a color man on Celtics broadcasts and he really should retire.

i'm assuming you mean second or third guy off the bench for a championship team, because he's already a 2nd/3rd guy off the bench for us and I expect him to get better.

I mean second or third guy off the bench at best regardless of where he is playing.

[vinnie]

I wonder if Olynyk can add enough muscle ... could he develop into a Bill Laimbeer type player?

Minus the freakish levels of physical toughness that Laimbeer brought to the table. Of course. Olynyk will never have that. But I think he could learn from the other things Laimbeer brought to the table.

Olynyk, like Laimbeer, doesn't have the length to be a shot-blocker but with time and practice he could become a sound positional team defender like Laimbeer was. With more muscle, Olynyk could hopefully be a quality man-to-man defender at the center position. Offensively, Laimbeer's high post game and jump-shooting that created matchup problems at the center position is something Olynyk already has. Olynyk would need more growth as a rebounder but at least he has shown some progress there and looks like he might be able to become a solid rebounder with more work.

I wonder if that is a good player (Laimbeer) for Olynyk to copy and learn from. To try and imitate. To try and put on extra muscle/mass to play the center position in a similar style as Laimbeer used to.

No. Laimbeer had half the skills.

Are you freaking kidding me. Laimbeer is a multi-time All-Star, one of the best players on a two-time championship team, one of the better defensive rebounders and outlet passers of his generation, a terrific shooter at his position and one of only a handful of players to accumulate 10,000 points and rebounds in his career. He's got a good case as a Hall of Famer.

And you are saying that he has "half the skills" of Kelly Olynyk.

Who was laimbeer surrounded with? Pistons were stacked. Can he dribble on his own and pop in jumpers?

KO has more skills.

Someone who is like that is tyler hansborough

That's funny. Yes, Laimbeer could "pop jumpers." He was one of the best outside shooters at his position in the league, for a decade. He often shot off a dribble. He once hit 6 3-pointers in a game while grabbing 11 boards and dishing 4 assists...in the NBA Finals. He was the proto-Kevin Love - a great jump-shooter and top-3 rebounder. Though, he was a much better defender than Love is.

Comparing Laimbeer to Hansbrough is...amusing, I guess. Do you also think that Dirk Nowitzki and Brian Scalabrine are similar?

Great post. Some of the comparisons people make here are astounding.

[PhoSita]

So, I wanted to ask a question of the people who have said they've been down on Olynyk since he was picked and have seen very little since then to change their minds:

What would Olynyk need to show you, short of turning into a completely different type of player, to win you over? 

I'm curious if your dissatisfaction with Kelly has more to do with the style of player that he is / his projected role moving forward (i.e. that he's a bit of a stretch / finesse big who isn't really meant to hang out near the basket), or if instead it's due to a lack of production or that Kelly hasn't been doing enough positive things when he's out on the floor.

[Snakehead]

So, I wanted to ask a question of the people who have said they've been down on Olynyk since he was picked and have seen very little since then to change their minds:

What would Olynyk need to show you, short of turning into a completely different type of player, to win you over? 

I'm curious if your dissatisfaction with Kelly has more to do with the style of player that he is / his projected role moving forward (i.e. that he's a bit of a stretch / finesse big who isn't really meant to hang out near the basket), or if instead it's due to a lack of production or that Kelly hasn't been doing enough positive things when he's out on the floor.

This forum often wants players to be someone they are not.

I don't expect Olynyk to ever become more than a decent defender, and that's fine.  Celtics fans can't even see that we have had teams full of defenders and almost no offensive players all down the stretch of the "Big Three" era and that cost us at times.  And I say this as someone who is huge on defense.  You need offense as well.  And complete players that are good on both ends get paid, can't have a team full of them.

I just want a big off the bench who gets you near a double double (16 and 8 ish), passes well, runs and spaces the floor.  And that's a valuable player.

[sahara]

Kelly's hair makes black people uncomfortable.

[PhoSita]

So, I wanted to ask a question of the people who have said they've been down on Olynyk since he was picked and have seen very little since then to change their minds:

What would Olynyk need to show you, short of turning into a completely different type of player, to win you over? 

I'm curious if your dissatisfaction with Kelly has more to do with the style of player that he is / his projected role moving forward (i.e. that he's a bit of a stretch / finesse big who isn't really meant to hang out near the basket), or if instead it's due to a lack of production or that Kelly hasn't been doing enough positive things when he's out on the floor.

This forum often wants players to be someone they are not.

I don't expect Olynyk to ever become more than a decent defender, and that's fine.  Celtics fans can't even see that we have had teams full of defenders and almost no offensive players all down the stretch of the "Big Three" era and that cost us at times.  And I say this as someone who is huge on defense.  You need offense as well.  And complete players that are good on both ends get paid, can't have a team full of them.

I just want a big off the bench who gets you near a double double (16 and 8 ish), passes well, runs and spaces the floor.  And that's a valuable player.

I tend to agree.  Boris Diaw comes to mind as a guy who doesn't have great physical tools to be a top notch defender, but he does a lot of good things for his team.  Luis Scola, Nick Collison, and Matt Bonner are some other names that come to mind.

There are a lot of types of players that can fit into a winning team formula.

[Snakehead]

So, I wanted to ask a question of the people who have said they've been down on Olynyk since he was picked and have seen very little since then to change their minds:

What would Olynyk need to show you, short of turning into a completely different type of player, to win you over? 

I'm curious if your dissatisfaction with Kelly has more to do with the style of player that he is / his projected role moving forward (i.e. that he's a bit of a stretch / finesse big who isn't really meant to hang out near the basket), or if instead it's due to a lack of production or that Kelly hasn't been doing enough positive things when he's out on the floor.

This forum often wants players to be someone they are not.

I don't expect Olynyk to ever become more than a decent defender, and that's fine.  Celtics fans can't even see that we have had teams full of defenders and almost no offensive players all down the stretch of the "Big Three" era and that cost us at times.  And I say this as someone who is huge on defense.  You need offense as well.  And complete players that are good on both ends get paid, can't have a team full of them.

I just want a big off the bench who gets you near a double double (16 and 8 ish), passes well, runs and spaces the floor.  And that's a valuable player.

I tend to agree.  Boris Diaw comes to mind as a guy who doesn't have great physical tools to be a top notch defender, but he does a lot of good things for his team.  Luis Scola, Nick Collison, and Matt Bonner are some other names that come to mind.

There are a lot of types of players that can fit into a winning team formula.

I've been hoping for Vlade as as ceiling for Olynyk.  And he was only decent on defense, known for flopping more than his defensive prowess.

A big that is smart and spaces and runs the floor and passes can have a very big impact on a game and help make all his teammates better.  Saw that with Vlade plenty.  The Kings were the league's winningest team with him playing huge minutes, and were known for their ball movement.  He was a big reason why.

Every player has holes.  I wonder if the critics of Olynyk lay into say Kevin Love (who I find to be a poor defender and someone who doesn't really give defensive effort) ?  Or Blake Griffin (who does try harder but doesn't have the length to be a very good defender) ?

I have wanted to build the team around Rondo and to do that, we need players like Olynyk who can score and run the floor.  Sullinger is already a good defender and I'm hoping we get a C who has legit size and can play D to start.  Then Olynyk will be a great option off the bench and give opponents a much different look at both big positions.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Nice couple offensive nights forthe rookie but his defense is abysmal. And its not abysmal fromplaying against the most talented guy on the other team either.

And by that I mean, has any of the Olynyk supporters out there noticed who Stevens puts Olynyk on every single time he is on the court? He puts himon the worst of the three frontcourt players regardless of whether that player is a SF, PF, or C.

Olynyk is the tallest player on the team and Stevens wouldn't let him anywhere near Duncan even when it was clear that Bass, Sully, Humphries and Anthony couldn't guard him. At one point tonight Duncan got so hot Stevens brought out Anthony after Duncan had crippled him Sully and Bass and what who did KO run over to guard, Diaw.

Stevens does this every game. He purposely puts Olynyk on the worst offensive forward the opposition has on the floor at any given time and even then, those players are lighting him up.

You can only hide defensive deficiencies in a big man so long before he starts killing your team defense.

http://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/1xx9rs/hows_olynyks_defense_coming_along/

Well here's a pretty good (IMO) analysis of Olynyk's defensive performance vs. the Spurs. FWIW

TP for the find. Objective and to-the-point.

Thanks! But credit goes to the guy who came up with that.

Reddit's NBA and Celtics community is pretty great if you don't already lurk there. Although the Celtics community is a bit small.

There are a few posters who post pretty incredible analyses. If you're interested here's some of the analyses that caught my eye (both C's-related and re: the NBA in general) since I've started frequenting reddit (about half a year ago, the start of this NBA season):

User who posted the Olynyk analysis who has also done quite a few other posts like this.
A play by play analysis of the loss vs. the Lakers this season, similar to the Olynyk analysis by the same guy.
An analysis of all first round draft picks from the past 30 years. I quite like this.
Where our bigs like to operate and, therefore, why Bass is getting minutes
D-league wing prospects
D-League post prospects

[Fred Roberts]

How did Kelly look last night? His points and rebound totals look encouraging.

[Tr1boy]

How did Kelly look last night? His points and rebound totals look encouraging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Ct0rQ6g5M

He is really progressing. Like that last rebounds he grabbed with favors on him. Its a sully style rebound

[SHAQATTACK]

He hasmost of the assets to play well.   A lot is mental and a lot is body building

It's up to him......to practice and work non stop to build his frame into a powerhouse .

His body language is getting better......pushing back, sticking his nose into ruff play undef the basket.

Also noticed his work trying to pick up on Sully's rebounding technic .".....I see him anticipating the rebounds , following ball better.....thus being in the right place to make a play......"this is how Bird made up for lesser physical skill ,  with intelligent play and positioning .

[dreamgreen]

It's not even 60 games into his rookie year and people want him to be Bird, this is silly. Let him play and most important thing will be to see how he improves next year, is he going to work hard or not in the off season? IMO he has all the tools to be a good player in the league, we will see how bad he wants it.

How many 20 point games has he had so far anyway?

[footey]

Based on the eye ball test, it is quite obvious that Kelly has improved a lot as a rebounder the last couple of months, and has improved some as a defender. He is still a below average defender.  He is a very opportunistic player. He seems to come up with a good steal out of nowhere.  The two things missing that I saw from the summer, and I suspect we will see from him pretty soon, are: (i) more consistent, confident outside shot, especially from 3 point range, and (ii) taking it on the floor to the hoop and either dishing or finishing. He may be the most team oriented player on the squad, and guys like that have more worth than shows in the box score.

[Tr1boy]

He hasmost of the assets to play well.   A lot is mental and a lot is body building

It's up to him......to practice and work non stop to build his frame into a powerhouse .

His body language is getting better......pushing back, sticking his nose into ruff play undef the basket.

Also noticed his work trying to pick up on Sully's rebounding technic .".....I see him anticipating the rebounds , following ball better.....thus being in the right place to make a play......"this is how Bird made up for lesser physical skill ,  with intelligent play and positioning .

Forgot who that guest commentator was but he kept emphasizing that kelly needs to hit the weights so he can use leverage vs opponents. Doesnt need to be that strong(actually too much heft might hinder his game), just dont let opponents close to the basket easily. It was some nice analysis