Road to banner 25: trade Rondo

[BballTim]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself.

  I don't think it's necessarily true that the fact that they played poorly for a few games was related to their re-injuring themselves. You're looking only at a couple of cases of players having unsuccessful recoveries because you think they support your point, you probably haven't done much checking on players who didn't re-injure themselves and did get back to playing well.

  As for Rose in particular, though, he was cleared for contact IIRC last spring. He had the summer to get into better shape and do further rehab on his knee, he was able to participate in the training camp and played plenty in the exhibition season. So a full training camp and a full exhibition season that occurred months after he was cleared for full contact, and he still didn't play great.

  Rondo was cleared for contact about a month before he hit the court. No training camp, no preseason, in fact he didn't have much of a chance to practice with the team before he started playing. Expecting him to be better than he was right out of the gate is silly, and so is the thought that his play hints at permanent problems.

  I can all but guarantee that no nba GM is going to say anything along the lines of "Rose came back and got injured right away so I won't trade for Rondo unless he looks like a star within a month of his return to the court". That's borderline hysteria.

   They'll look at Rose and many other players that came back from injuries similar to Rondo's (Rose's was much worse btw) and look at their recoveries, not just right when they stepped on the court but over the entire recovery. They'll look for any warning signs with Rondo and they'll look over his medical reports. Their strategy is unlikely to hinge on how well he plays over the nest 2 weeks though. A GM like that would have made us a good offer for Crawford after he was player of the week, or would have made us a killer offer for Bradley in 2012 when he was playing so well at the end of the season.

[droopdog7]

People are crazy if they think that guys' trade value fluctuates from game to game.  Hear that all the time about showcasing guys (like Bass).  GM's know who these guys are and what they can do.  No single game (or stretch of games) will make much a difference (if at all).

We also know that Rondo will recover from this (unless he is Derrick Rose or something).  So the only question is, what is he worth to other teams.

[sunnyd656]

I like where you're going with this.....but you're waiting to long to pull the trigger on the baby. 15months old is plenty. You also forgot to include the GOAT on our team.




New starting line up: Rondo/sweetbabyjesus/FHoF/Buddy/Sully.

[D.o.s.]

People are crazy if they think that guys' trade value fluctuates from game to game.  Hear that all the time about showcasing guys (like Bass).  GM's know who these guys are and what they can do.  No single game (or stretch of games) will make much a difference (if at all).

We also know that Rondo will recover from this (unless he is Derrick Rose or something).  So the only question is, what is he worth to other teams.

Trade value doesn't fluctuate over, say, ten games, but players are constantly re-evaluated by front offices based on their current performance.

It's why Golden State went after Jordan Crawford when the Wizards couldn't even give him away this time last year.

Because the Dubs front office saw how Crawford played on a team that wasn't in shambles, when he was playing ~30 minutes a game as the primary ball handler. And he played well--well enough that he rebuilt his value enough to be traded well before the trade deadline.

The same reason why Dallas "took a risk" on Monta Ellis, who has never been as bad as the pundits said he was. They put him into a system that played to his strengths, and he's been the steal of the off-season so far (IMO).

Rondo's value around the league hinges on a lot of what we argue about on here 365 days a season--whether he can do it without Hall of Fame teammates, how he'll respond to being the undisputed best player in the league, how he's recovering, so on and so forth.

While one great stat line (and another one nearing a trip-double) isn't going to move the needle much, a half-season of quality Rondo will do a lot for his trade value.

[chambers]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself.

  I don't think it's necessarily true that the fact that they played poorly for a few games was related to their re-injuring themselves. You're looking only at a couple of cases of players having unsuccessful recoveries because you think they support your point, you probably haven't done much checking on players who didn't re-injure themselves and did get back to playing well.

  As for Rose in particular, though, he was cleared for contact IIRC last spring. He had the summer to get into better shape and do further rehab on his knee, he was able to participate in the training camp and played plenty in the exhibition season. So a full training camp and a full exhibition season that occurred months after he was cleared for full contact, and he still didn't play great.

  Rondo was cleared for contact about a month before he hit the court. No training camp, no preseason, in fact he didn't have much of a chance to practice with the team before he started playing. Expecting him to be better than he was right out of the gate is silly, and so is the thought that his play hints at permanent problems.

  I can all but guarantee that no nba GM is going to say anything along the lines of "Rose came back and got injured right away so I won't trade for Rondo unless he looks like a star within a month of his return to the court". That's borderline hysteria.

   They'll look at Rose and many other players that came back from injuries similar to Rondo's (Rose's was much worse btw) and look at their recoveries, not just right when they stepped on the court but over the entire recovery. They'll look for any warning signs with Rondo and they'll look over his medical reports. Their strategy is unlikely to hinge on how well he plays over the nest 2 weeks though. A GM like that would have made us a good offer for Crawford after he was player of the week, or would have made us a killer offer for Bradley in 2012 when he was playing so well at the end of the season.

I think he has a point to a certain extent but it's applicable to the trade deadline and what kind of offers (if any) are made for Rondo.
The premise is simple:
A) he plays like crap, doesn't have his athleticism (due to recovery) and leaves teams wondering what they are gambling with. Doesn't mean he won't get back to what he was,  just means teams can use it to justify lowballing, or teams can use it to justify waiting until draft night when he's had a chance to properly put a string of great games together more like his old self.

B) He plays great for 6 games and teams who are contemplating adding another star for the playoffs and want a few months for him to adjust  don't have any question about trading away a potential 1st round pick and assets for Rondo because regardless of the injury question mark, he's shown that he can play at that level.
In other words, there's no risk that he'll never be the same again and Danny fleeced them for a pick.

Just to point something out, you claim  larbrd33  is using examples of players and injuries to suit his argument-whilst you're acting like those injuries don't correlate at all and its7 complete circumstance?
I'd also wonder the last time a 'star' player was traded this soon after a major injury comeback? I just remember Perkins being moved to OKC because of free agency and his leg never being the same. I remember KG's knee going out and the subsequences of that injury years later in the 2010 NBA finals.

I don't think it will happen to Rondo but to say it wont affect potential trades with him around the deadline is being overly optimistic and not realistic.

[BballTim]

People are crazy if they think that guys' trade value fluctuates from game to game.  Hear that all the time about showcasing guys (like Bass).  GM's know who these guys are and what they can do.  No single game (or stretch of games) will make much a difference (if at all).

We also know that Rondo will recover from this (unless he is Derrick Rose or something).  So the only question is, what is he worth to other teams.

Trade value doesn't fluctuate over, say, ten games, but players are constantly re-evaluated by front offices based on their current performance.

It's why Golden State went after Jordan Crawford when the Wizards couldn't even give him away this time last year.

  Makes sense. With a player like Crawford, many of his faults could be ascribed to youth/inexperience. While it wasn't a given that he'd improve it was something to monitor. But even then their valuation of him probably didn't fluctuate as much as his play did. When he was playing well he was making plenty of bad decisions but was hitting difficult shots. Later on he was making bad decisions and his shooting went cold. I doubt there was a huge change in his evaluation during that play.

Because the Dubs front office saw how Crawford played on a team that wasn't in shambles, when he was playing ~30 minutes a game as the primary ball handler. And he played well--well enough that he rebuilt his value enough to be traded well before the trade deadline.

  That and they had an injury to their backup pg when they were in a playoff race. Crawford was cheap, easily obtainable and on a short contract. He was playing decently enough that he was worth putting on the team, but he's probably going to lose minutes as the season progresses.

The same reason why Dallas "took a risk" on Monta Ellis, who has never been as bad as the pundits said he was. They put him into a system that played to his strengths, and he's been the steal of the off-season so far (IMO).

  That's a different situation. It's not like Ellis was really playing better than he had in the past when Dallas went after him. It's that they evaluated his skills and projected them into a different situation.

Rondo's value around the league hinges on a lot of what we argue about on here 365 days a season--whether he can do it without Hall of Fame teammates, how he'll respond to being the undisputed best player in the league, how he's recovering, so on and so forth.

  This is where I'm not quite with you. People here don't have a ton of basketball expertise. How Rondo will be without PP and KG have always ranged from "he'll fall flat on his face" to "he'll be fine, in fact possibly better". One would assume that there would be significantly less variation among GMs.

  For instance, if Dallas has a good idea of how Monta Ellis will function in another system wouldn't they have a similar idea in Rondo's case? Also, would those people really be thinking of PP/KG over the last couple of years in "HOF" terms? Would a GM decide not to trade for Rondo because it would be prohibitively difficult to find players who were as good at scoring as 2011-2013 PP and KG?

[BballTim]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself.

  I don't think it's necessarily true that the fact that they played poorly for a few games was related to their re-injuring themselves. You're looking only at a couple of cases of players having unsuccessful recoveries because you think they support your point, you probably haven't done much checking on players who didn't re-injure themselves and did get back to playing well.

  As for Rose in particular, though, he was cleared for contact IIRC last spring. He had the summer to get into better shape and do further rehab on his knee, he was able to participate in the training camp and played plenty in the exhibition season. So a full training camp and a full exhibition season that occurred months after he was cleared for full contact, and he still didn't play great.

  Rondo was cleared for contact about a month before he hit the court. No training camp, no preseason, in fact he didn't have much of a chance to practice with the team before he started playing. Expecting him to be better than he was right out of the gate is silly, and so is the thought that his play hints at permanent problems.

  I can all but guarantee that no nba GM is going to say anything along the lines of "Rose came back and got injured right away so I won't trade for Rondo unless he looks like a star within a month of his return to the court". That's borderline hysteria.

   They'll look at Rose and many other players that came back from injuries similar to Rondo's (Rose's was much worse btw) and look at their recoveries, not just right when they stepped on the court but over the entire recovery. They'll look for any warning signs with Rondo and they'll look over his medical reports. Their strategy is unlikely to hinge on how well he plays over the nest 2 weeks though. A GM like that would have made us a good offer for Crawford after he was player of the week, or would have made us a killer offer for Bradley in 2012 when he was playing so well at the end of the season.

I think he has a point to a certain extent but it's applicable to the trade deadline and what kind of offers (if any) are made for Rondo.
The premise is simple:
A) he plays like crap, doesn't have his athleticism (due to recovery) and leaves teams wondering what they are gambling with. Doesn't mean he won't get back to what he was,  just means teams can use it to justify lowballing, or teams can use it to justify waiting until draft night when he's had a chance to properly put a string of great games together more like his old self.

B) He plays great for 6 games and teams who are contemplating adding another star for the playoffs and want a few months for him to adjust  don't have any question about trading away a potential 1st round pick and assets for Rondo because regardless of the injury question mark, he's shown that he can play at that level.
In other words, there's no risk that he'll never be the same again and Danny fleeced them for a pick.

Just to point something out, you claim  larbrd33  is using examples of players and injuries to suit his argument-whilst you're acting like those injuries don't correlate at all and its7 complete circumstance?
I'd also wonder the last time a 'star' player was traded this soon after a major injury comeback? I just remember Perkins being moved to OKC because of free agency and his leg never being the same. I remember KG's knee going out and the subsequences of that injury years later in the 2010 NBA finals.

I don't think it will happen to Rondo but to say it wont affect potential trades with him around the deadline is being overly optimistic and not realistic.

  Doubtful but possible I suppose. It's true that Rondo wasn't playing well or shooting well for the first 6 games but I don't think there was anything about the way that he was moving around or about his rehab that would cause opposing teams to be concerned that he was never going to recover physically. Hitting or missing a few jump shots over a few weeks isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other IMO.

[LarBrd33]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself.

  I don't think it's necessarily true that the fact that they played poorly for a few games was related to their re-injuring themselves. You're looking only at a couple of cases of players having unsuccessful recoveries because you think they support your point, you probably haven't done much checking on players who didn't re-injure themselves and did get back to playing well.

  As for Rose in particular, though, he was cleared for contact IIRC last spring. He had the summer to get into better shape and do further rehab on his knee, he was able to participate in the training camp and played plenty in the exhibition season. So a full training camp and a full exhibition season that occurred months after he was cleared for full contact, and he still didn't play great.

  Rondo was cleared for contact about a month before he hit the court. No training camp, no preseason, in fact he didn't have much of a chance to practice with the team before he started playing. Expecting him to be better than he was right out of the gate is silly, and so is the thought that his play hints at permanent problems.

  I can all but guarantee that no nba GM is going to say anything along the lines of "Rose came back and got injured right away so I won't trade for Rondo unless he looks like a star within a month of his return to the court". That's borderline hysteria.

   They'll look at Rose and many other players that came back from injuries similar to Rondo's (Rose's was much worse btw) and look at their recoveries, not just right when they stepped on the court but over the entire recovery. They'll look for any warning signs with Rondo and they'll look over his medical reports. Their strategy is unlikely to hinge on how well he plays over the nest 2 weeks though. A GM like that would have made us a good offer for Crawford after he was player of the week, or would have made us a killer offer for Bradley in 2012 when he was playing so well at the end of the season.

I think he has a point to a certain extent but it's applicable to the trade deadline and what kind of offers (if any) are made for Rondo.
The premise is simple:
A) he plays like crap, doesn't have his athleticism (due to recovery) and leaves teams wondering what they are gambling with. Doesn't mean he won't get back to what he was,  just means teams can use it to justify lowballing, or teams can use it to justify waiting until draft night when he's had a chance to properly put a string of great games together more like his old self.

B) He plays great for 6 games and teams who are contemplating adding another star for the playoffs and want a few months for him to adjust  don't have any question about trading away a potential 1st round pick and assets for Rondo because regardless of the injury question mark, he's shown that he can play at that level.
In other words, there's no risk that he'll never be the same again and Danny fleeced them for a pick.

Just to point something out, you claim  larbrd33  is using examples of players and injuries to suit his argument-whilst you're acting like those injuries don't correlate at all and its7 complete circumstance?
I'd also wonder the last time a 'star' player was traded this soon after a major injury comeback? I just remember Perkins being moved to OKC because of free agency and his leg never being the same. I remember KG's knee going out and the subsequences of that injury years later in the 2010 NBA finals.

I don't think it will happen to Rondo but to say it wont affect potential trades with him around the deadline is being overly optimistic and not realistic.

  Doubtful but possible I suppose. It's true that Rondo wasn't playing well or shooting well for the first 6 games but I don't think there was anything about the way that he was moving around or about his rehab that would cause opposing teams to be concerned that he was never going to recover physically. Hitting or missing a few jump shots over a few weeks isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other IMO.

Tim... I think it's a simple concept.

Healthy ROndo had a certain trade value. 

If he played like he did over the first 6 games for the next 7 games leading into the deadline, teams would have reason to question if "healthy rondo" would ever return.  As much as you like to say it's a given... it's not.  They might say "wait... dude has sucked for his first 13 games.  We have no reason to believe he can get back to being the player he was.  He hasn't proven he's healthy... He's shooting 26%, looks slow... his athleticism might never return.  He hasn't proven he can play without KG, Pierce, Ray and Doc.  His team has lost 19 in a row with him as the leader (6 game losing streak last year, 6 game losing streak this year and hypothetical 7  game losing streak if he continued sucking)... As much as you want to believe his previous trade value would remain unchanged, it would most certainly change.  Who is giving up assets for a guy who looks like hot garbage?

Alternatively, if Rondo plays like he did the other day for the next 6 games... putting up solid pre-injury numbers and leading his team to wins, it justifies his position around the league.  "Oh ok... so those first 6 games were just him working off the rust.  He's looked good recently.  Seemingly back to his normal self.  He has helped Boston win a couple.  He can still get assists and rebounds. His confidence and speed are returning.  His shot is as good as we can expect.. this is someone who can help our team if we trade for him.  Sure, he's still not 1000% and could reinjure himself, but we've seen enough over the past 7 games to prove his career isn't over... offer up an expiring contract and pick"

Anyways, for those hoping we keep Rondo, you should root for him to struggle over the next 6.  If he continues to struggle, teams might balk at the idea of bringing him in for value.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself.

  I don't think it's necessarily true that the fact that they played poorly for a few games was related to their re-injuring themselves. You're looking only at a couple of cases of players having unsuccessful recoveries because you think they support your point, you probably haven't done much checking on players who didn't re-injure themselves and did get back to playing well.

  As for Rose in particular, though, he was cleared for contact IIRC last spring. He had the summer to get into better shape and do further rehab on his knee, he was able to participate in the training camp and played plenty in the exhibition season. So a full training camp and a full exhibition season that occurred months after he was cleared for full contact, and he still didn't play great.

  Rondo was cleared for contact about a month before he hit the court. No training camp, no preseason, in fact he didn't have much of a chance to practice with the team before he started playing. Expecting him to be better than he was right out of the gate is silly, and so is the thought that his play hints at permanent problems.

  I can all but guarantee that no nba GM is going to say anything along the lines of "Rose came back and got injured right away so I won't trade for Rondo unless he looks like a star within a month of his return to the court". That's borderline hysteria.

   They'll look at Rose and many other players that came back from injuries similar to Rondo's (Rose's was much worse btw) and look at their recoveries, not just right when they stepped on the court but over the entire recovery. They'll look for any warning signs with Rondo and they'll look over his medical reports. Their strategy is unlikely to hinge on how well he plays over the nest 2 weeks though. A GM like that would have made us a good offer for Crawford after he was player of the week, or would have made us a killer offer for Bradley in 2012 when he was playing so well at the end of the season.

I think he has a point to a certain extent but it's applicable to the trade deadline and what kind of offers (if any) are made for Rondo.
The premise is simple:
A) he plays like crap, doesn't have his athleticism (due to recovery) and leaves teams wondering what they are gambling with. Doesn't mean he won't get back to what he was,  just means teams can use it to justify lowballing, or teams can use it to justify waiting until draft night when he's had a chance to properly put a string of great games together more like his old self.

B) He plays great for 6 games and teams who are contemplating adding another star for the playoffs and want a few months for him to adjust  don't have any question about trading away a potential 1st round pick and assets for Rondo because regardless of the injury question mark, he's shown that he can play at that level.
In other words, there's no risk that he'll never be the same again and Danny fleeced them for a pick.

Just to point something out, you claim  larbrd33  is using examples of players and injuries to suit his argument-whilst you're acting like those injuries don't correlate at all and its7 complete circumstance?
I'd also wonder the last time a 'star' player was traded this soon after a major injury comeback? I just remember Perkins being moved to OKC because of free agency and his leg never being the same. I remember KG's knee going out and the subsequences of that injury years later in the 2010 NBA finals.

I don't think it will happen to Rondo but to say it wont affect potential trades with him around the deadline is being overly optimistic and not realistic.

  Doubtful but possible I suppose. It's true that Rondo wasn't playing well or shooting well for the first 6 games but I don't think there was anything about the way that he was moving around or about his rehab that would cause opposing teams to be concerned that he was never going to recover physically. Hitting or missing a few jump shots over a few weeks isn't going to move the needle much one way or the other IMO.

Tim... I think it's a simple concept.

Healthy ROndo had a certain trade value. 

If he played like he did over the first 6 games for the next 7 games leading into the deadline, teams would have reason to question if "healthy rondo" would ever return.  As much as you like to say it's a given... it's not.  They might say "wait... dude has sucked for his first 13 games.  We have no reason to believe he can get back to being the player he was.  He hasn't proven he's healthy... He's shooting 26%, looks slow... his athleticism might never return.  He hasn't proven he can play without KG, Pierce, Ray and Doc.  His team has lost 19 in a row with him as the leader (6 game losing streak last year, 6 game losing streak this year and hypothetical 7  game losing streak if he continued sucking)... As much as you want to believe his previous trade value would remain unchanged, it would most certainly change.  Who is giving up assets for a guy who looks like hot garbage?

Alternatively, if Rondo plays like he did the other day for the next 6 games... putting up solid pre-injury numbers and leading his team to wins, it justifies his position around the league.  "Oh ok... so those first 6 games were just him working off the rust.  He's looked good recently.  Seemingly back to his normal self.  He has helped Boston win a couple.  He can still get assists and rebounds. His confidence and speed are returning.  His shot is as good as we can expect.. this is someone who can help our team if we trade for him.  Sure, he's still not 1000% and could reinjure himself, but we've seen enough over the past 7 games to prove his career isn't over... offer up an expiring contract and pick"

Anyways, for those hoping we keep Rondo, you should root for him to struggle over the next 6.  If he continues to struggle, teams might balk at the idea of bringing him in for value.

I'm sure the threshold for other teams is more than SIX GAMES.

And perhaps it's not as cut and dry as "Rondo's value is high, trade him". Maybe if his value is high enough, he might be worth keeping.

No. Not high enough to be a """"superstar option 1"""". Just high enough that offers aren't worth it.

[tstorey_97]

Postah: "Trading Rondo for a draft pick is waaay too risky."

Referee: "Misrep of trade scenario! One and one!"

My guess is Ainge would prefer the "star for a star (horse for a horse)" route. He flipped #5 pick Mr. Green (a pony)  for Mr. Allen (a horse).

This spins the great Rondo debate into a run of the mill "who can you get for him conversation."

Allow me > Rondo + Green and this year's first rounder for Kevin Love. Somewhat of a longshot that would require another team or two or three, but, more realistic than giving up an all star (horse) for a 19 year old (pony)in any draft (except for Russell's).

Ainge gets a starting NBA all star (horse) plus "ponies" for Rondo or, he stays in Boston.

Perhaps, Ainge has a horse in mind. If he doesn't, we keep Rondo and have 11 ponies (enough to complete a Budweiser draught team, sorry) coming in over the next five years...all of whom I hope Ainge trades for horses (like Clydesdales but, much faster with great hops..sorry again), before they even get here.

I regret the host of animal references and weak wordplay in this post. The "War for Rondo" spawned it. Thank you.

[BballTim]

Tim... I think it's a simple concept.

Healthy ROndo had a certain trade value. 

If he played like he did over the first 6 games for the next 7 games leading into the deadline, teams would have reason to question if "healthy rondo" would ever return. 

  This is where your argument loses steam. If most players returning from major injuries (especially in mid-season) looked good as new after 6-7 games then you'd have a good argument. That's not the case. Rondo's jumper is off. He's not in sync with his teammates. He's rusty with his passing. He's hesitant at times and not fully confident in his knee. None of that even slightly implies that he'll never fully recover from his injury. You don't see that but GMs would most likely understand it.

  Things that would point to Rondo never recovering would be re-injuring his knee, setbacks in his rehab, taking much longer than expected to get back onto the court or being *really* limited in his mobility. None of that's happening or has happened. True, there's no guarantee that he'll fully recover from his knee injury (and I've never said it's a given that he will), but there's no indication that he won't. Missing jumpers or having bad timing/placement on his lobs don't point to it, neither does bouncing a pass off of Hump's chin.