Road to banner 25: trade Rondo

[perrin_goldeneyes]

<engage sarcasm mode>

We should trade Rondo now since after yesterday's performance it's clear he is getting his groove back (also: he is "intrigued" by Free Agency and doesn't want to sign an extension, so we should get what we can before we end up like the Bobcats). This will guarantee us a top pick in this year's draft filled with future Hall of Famers (who will of course all be better than Rondo, this is guaranteed). But before you start saying that DA just made Rondo the captain, you should understand that he clearly did this to drive a harder bargain at the negotiating table.

Now, the plan shouldn't stop at this year's draft class. We should keep looking towards the future. We will draft Embiid, Parker or Wiggins (henceforth refered to as the Future Hall of Famer, FHoF). We keep the FHoF here for a couple of seasons while he brings us a couple of banners, but before we instill in the FHoF the idea of loyalty from the Celtics (to further help this along we could give him #9, #34 or #5 -- or maybe reuse #33 and #6), we should trade them away for the rights to draft the second coming of Ray Allen (who you can see is already clearly some levels above Ray in the shooting department -- although he should put in some more work on his ball handling):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJhglpBhqKo

The fact that anyone can and will be traded at any time, will attract Free Agents to the Celtics like honey attracts bees and bears. We obviously only want the bears: apart from the fact that they are more suited to Boston's cold weather (and thus wouldn't take their talents to South Beach or LA), they would make a good rim protector if we cannot get Embiid, and while this would make us vulnerable to "hack-a-bear" I think if we scout for the right bear, I would still prefer the bear to DH12 at that point in the game.

Long story short: would you trade Rondo for the future rights to the second coming of Ray Allen, which would guarantee us banner 25? The FHoF can maybe be traded to the Lakers, so they can maybe get a 17th banner, just to keep the league happy.

</disengage sarcasm mode>

[tyrone biggums]

Part of me wants to laugh. The other part of me wants to cry because every sarcastic thing in this post is 100% truth on this board. Everyone believes that Rondo is garbage compared to the picks in this draft. Well done

[perrin_goldeneyes]

Thanks, that was indeed what I was going for

I'm mostly a reader here (having a look at my post count confirms this), but I'm getting tired of the constant talk about trading away our guys. But instead of complaining about it, I choose a lighter approach to get my point across.

I understand a lot of people say the words on the front of the jersey are more important than what's written on the back, and I agree, but only to a certain point. You need to have players which are at the core of your franchise, who give the franchise a certain character, but in my mind this cannot happen when everyone is up for sale at all times and the team changes every few weeks or months. I'm here to root for a team, not for a bunch of mercenaries who happen to have "Celtics" written on the front of their jersey.

I also understand we are in a transitional period, so a lot of the players now probably aren't at the core of the franchise, but I would say Rondo is. He is the link between the future and the past. He is the one who should teach the new guys what it means to be a Celtic (both through his words and through his play).

A lot of people are saying we can't get any FAs (which might or might not be true), but having everyone for sale at all times surely isn't going to help in that regard. Who in their right mind is going to sign with a team which is known for shipping players out left and right? Probably only people chasing the largest paycheck, which is not somebody I would want in my team.

[PhoSita]

Anybody who says they can draw you a road map to the next Celtics title based on one significant roster move is misleading you, pulling your leg, or doesn't really understand how the NBA works.

[BballTim]

Anybody who says they can draw you a road map to the next Celtics title based on one significant roster move is misleading you, pulling your leg, or doesn't really understand how the NBA works.

  ...and each explanation is as likely as the next. (pulling your leg is probably least likely, on second thought)

[bobbyv]

Haha brilliant! TP

[Vermont Green]

Cynicism about trading Rondo is as narrow minded as cynicism about not trading him.

If we were to pass on a trade offer for Rondo for a top pick and then aren't able to sign him and he ends up on the Lakers, how is that going to help us win a banner? (unless you think Rondo can lead us to one next year).

On the other hand, say we trade Rondo for a top pick and that player never fulfills his promise (as many picks, especially these very young ones often do not).  That isn't a very good outcome either.

I fear that if we are not able to extend Rondo this summer, we are going to lose him or over pay him, neither of which will help us to a banner.  I am OK with trading him for the right deal.  I think there is a chance he will be gone by the trade deadline.

If traded, I will wait to see the deal before I declare it as smart or dumb.

[D.o.s.]

Cynicism about trading Rondo is as narrow minded as cynicism about not trading him.

If we were to pass on a trade offer for Rondo for a top pick and then aren't able to sign him and he ends up on the Lakers, how is that going to help us win a banner? (unless you think Rondo can lead us to one next year).

On the other hand, say we trade Rondo for a top pick and that player never fulfills his promise (as many picks, especially these very young ones often do not).  That isn't a very good outcome either.

I fear that if we are not able to extend Rondo this summer, we are going to lose him or over pay him, neither of which will help us to a banner.  I am OK with trading him for the right deal.  I think there is a chance he will be gone by the trade deadline.

If traded, I will wait to see the deal before I declare it as smart or dumb.

I'd agree with that.

[LarBrd33]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

[LilRip]

Cynicism about trading Rondo is as narrow minded as cynicism about not trading him.

If we were to pass on a trade offer for Rondo for a top pick and then aren't able to sign him and he ends up on the Lakers, how is that going to help us win a banner? (unless you think Rondo can lead us to one next year).

On the other hand, say we trade Rondo for a top pick and that player never fulfills his promise (as many picks, especially these very young ones often do not).  That isn't a very good outcome either.

I fear that if we are not able to extend Rondo this summer, we are going to lose him or over pay him, neither of which will help us to a banner.  I am OK with trading him for the right deal.  I think there is a chance he will be gone by the trade deadline.

If traded, I will wait to see the deal before I declare it as smart or dumb.

TP. agree with this.

I mean, didn't news break before that Paul Pierce would've been traded for CP3 had NOH accepted? There's a right deal for almost all players.

[BballTim]

Cynicism about trading Rondo is as narrow minded as cynicism about not trading him.

If we were to pass on a trade offer for Rondo for a top pick and then aren't able to sign him and he ends up on the Lakers, how is that going to help us win a banner? (unless you think Rondo can lead us to one next year).

On the other hand, say we trade Rondo for a top pick and that player never fulfills his promise (as many picks, especially these very young ones often do not).  That isn't a very good outcome either.

I fear that if we are not able to extend Rondo this summer, we are going to lose him or over pay him, neither of which will help us to a banner.  I am OK with trading him for the right deal.  I think there is a chance he will be gone by the trade deadline.

If traded, I will wait to see the deal before I declare it as smart or dumb.

  By that logic though you really can't evaluate the trade unless you know whether or the Celts will meet Rondo's ultimate asking price for a new contract. I've said this before, but teams that trade top players in Rondo's age range are rarely better off with what they trade those players for than they'd have been if they stuck with those players. That's why almost all of those trades are made under duress. Some of the proposed trades aren't bad in the "if you have to trade Rondo this would be a decent return" vein, but most of them aren't very good in the "if Rondo gets back to full health we're more than likely better with the return than we'd be with Rondo" vein.

[chambers]

Cynicism about trading Rondo is as narrow minded as cynicism about not trading him.

If we were to pass on a trade offer for Rondo for a top pick and then aren't able to sign him and he ends up on the Lakers, how is that going to help us win a banner? (unless you think Rondo can lead us to one next year).

On the other hand, say we trade Rondo for a top pick and that player never fulfills his promise (as many picks, especially these very young ones often do not).  That isn't a very good outcome either.

I fear that if we are not able to extend Rondo this summer, we are going to lose him or over pay him, neither of which will help us to a banner.  I am OK with trading him for the right deal.  I think there is a chance he will be gone by the trade deadline.

If traded, I will wait to see the deal before I declare it as smart or dumb.

Exactly, well said. (TP)
Why can't Celtics fans be open to both routes and have faith that the GM will do what he believes is the best for the C's future?
It's either 'you're a POS that wants to get rid of Rondo for scraps' or 'you're a diehard stuck in the 2008 era and won't move on'.
Like one can't appreciate the other or see the risk involved on both sides. I'm in favor of keeping Rondo and pairing him with another 2 stars... But if that option doesn't come to fruition, I understand that if we draft a young kid then it's very possible that Ainge makes the most of the 'bonanza' that is the NBA draft for the next 2-3 seasons and decides to go the OKC/Seattle route- with Rondo being traded away like Ray Allen was and giving us the best shot at drafting a franchise level player.
At age 28 it's hard to envision any 20 year old draft picks being good enough to help Rondo on a championship level until their 3rd/4th year in the NBA when he's 32.
It's just so hard to get franchise players in the NBA and Ainge knows that without one Durant/Lebron type guy, or multiple top 30 guys that are close (like Rondo), you're going to struggle.
I will leave it in Danny's hands for now, knowing that his priority number one is getting as many 'raffle tickets' as we can to land a legitimate franchise player on the Celtics.

[BballTim]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

[LarBrd33]

Plenty of anti-tankers who want to keep Rondo and I respect that.

Whether you embrace the context or not, Rondo is here right now trying to prove if he is healthy. 

Irony is that the anti-tankers best defense against a potential Rondo trade is for Rondo to play terribly over the next 6 games and for Boston to lose a lot heading into the trade deadline. 

If Rondo plays like he did yesterday, teams will absolutely line up at the deadline to make offers... and Ainge will have to consider those offers or he isn't doing his job properly.  This would be Rondo proving he's healthy.

If Rondo plays like he did over his first 6 games, teams will think twice about making serious offers for Rondo.  We'll receive lowball offers and Rondo will likely stick around for a while.  This would be Rondo not proving he's healthy.

Funny thing is, tankers should be rooting for big performances over the next 6 games and anti-tankers should be rooting for terrible performances.  Welcome to 17 days of Bizarro Land.

  No offense, but this probably isn't the case. All nba teams have seen player after player come back from injury, not just in games but seeing how good or bad they are when they're rehabbing or when they practice before they ever get onto the court. Six good games or six bad games won't have any major effect on whether a team wants to trade for Rondo or what they'll offer him. Watching him struggle in his early games when he's out of shape, tentative and struggles to move laterally can't surprise anyone. You'd have a point if he'd suffered unexpected setbacks in his rehab or if he took much longer than expected to get back on the court but neither of those things happened.

No offense, Tim, but there are multiple examples this year alone of players who came back, played awful and reinjured themselves. 

If Rondo puts together a nice string of games, it shows he's someone who can get back to the level he was once at.  That would alleviate the major concern potential trade partners have.  As an outsider to the Bulls situation, I wouldn't trade jack squat for Derrick Rose after seeing his failed return.  Dude's career is in the toilet right now.  He played awful when he returned.  He didn't prove he was healthy.  He subsequently reinjured himself. 

[Timdawgg]

<engage sarcasm mode>

We should trade Rondo now since after yesterday's performance it's clear he is getting his groove back (also: he is "intrigued" by Free Agency and doesn't want to sign an extension, so we should get what we can before we end up like the Bobcats). This will guarantee us a top pick in this year's draft filled with future Hall of Famers (who will of course all be better than Rondo, this is guaranteed). But before you start saying that DA just made Rondo the captain, you should understand that he clearly did this to drive a harder bargain at the negotiating table.

Now, the plan shouldn't stop at this year's draft class. We should keep looking towards the future. We will draft Embiid, Parker or Wiggins (henceforth refered to as the Future Hall of Famer, FHoF). We keep the FHoF here for a couple of seasons while he brings us a couple of banners, but before we instill in the FHoF the idea of loyalty from the Celtics (to further help this along we could give him #9, #34 or #5 -- or maybe reuse #33 and #6), we should trade them away for the rights to draft the second coming of Ray Allen (who you can see is already clearly some levels above Ray in the shooting department -- although he should put in some more work on his ball handling):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJhglpBhqKo

The fact that anyone can and will be traded at any time, will attract Free Agents to the Celtics like honey attracts bees and bears. We obviously only want the bears: apart from the fact that they are more suited to Boston's cold weather (and thus wouldn't take their talents to South Beach or LA), they would make a good rim protector if we cannot get Embiid, and while this would make us vulnerable to "hack-a-bear" I think if we scout for the right bear, I would still prefer the bear to DH12 at that point in the game.

Long story short: would you trade Rondo for the future rights to the second coming of Ray Allen, which would guarantee us banner 25? The FHoF can maybe be traded to the Lakers, so they can maybe get a 17th banner, just to keep the league happy.

</disengage sarcasm mode>

TP for this..I need that..I cringe when reading all the posters that want to trade Rondo...