Author Topic: Rondo is back!!!  (Read 7375 times)

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Rondo is back!!!
« on: February 02, 2014, 03:26:32 PM »

Offline Gari

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and I see a better version of rondo out there.Less of a ball hog, shoots the ball better, and making great passes like before. The flow of the game feels a lot better whenever he's on the court IMO, guys like bradley and bass are getting easy shots as well. (but Jeff Green...Ugh)

Sully's on his way to become a double double machine btw! ;D

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 03:35:49 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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and I see a better version of rondo out there.Less of a ball hog, shoots the ball better, and making great passes like before. The flow of the game feels a lot better whenever he's on the court IMO, guys like bradley and bass are getting easy shots as well. (but Jeff Green...Ugh)

Sully's on his way to become a double double machine btw! ;D

Best game by far. He hasn't proven the shooting though, I think he was shooting like 29% b4 tonight... I don't doubt he is gonna find his way shooting though, he is a much better shooter than people give him cred for. Also, I just think he is gonna keep getting better, it's just not going to look as great as tonight until he gets an actual team... at least not every night.
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 03:39:43 PM »

Offline bobbyv

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 03:44:19 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 04:43:37 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 04:47:52 PM »

Offline BballTim

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19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

  The "75%" is the key part of the statement. Rondo's going to have good and bad games as he recovers from his injury. Some people are going to point to whatever good games he has at times as proof that he's completely recovered and evaluate his play like he's fully healthy, that's not the case. He'll still probably have ups and downs and soreness and the like. It's all part of the process.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 04:53:02 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Good timing.  We need him to play like he did back in his prime over the next 6 games.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 04:56:16 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Only if we ignore that Rondo himself became aware of the issue and seems to have addressed it on his time off, particularly after our good play when he went down... there was a lot of "Rondo's perspective on how to run the offense has been changing" type of stories dating back to late last season or so. Whether those stories are BS or not, well that's another thing.

So whether we stay the same or see noticeable change we'll never know exactly what the root of the problem is/was.

The only real proof we have was that last year the ball-movement was much better when Rondo wasn't on the floor, that said I accused Pierce too as being part of the problem. And when Doc decided to use Bradley as the PG, instead of the by committee thing he had going early on or PG-less if you will, the ball-movement also regressed once again, in part because Bradley sucks as a PG.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 05:00:37 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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He is looking a lot more comfortable and knowledgeable in this system and with his new team mates. I think most of today was because of getting familiar with things but his endurance and speed seemed better than a week ago and his shot was looking fluid, like he had has game legs under him.

I was also encouraged by the way he fought through screens today, often taking shots on his knee areas and having to contort to get by the picker putting a lot of pressure on his knee. He and the knee looked very strong today.

Also can not wait for the deadline to pass so this incessant "trade Rondo" posts by some will slow down and disappear for a while. The team is negotiating an extension and named him captain. There is zero chance he is traded before the deadline.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 05:08:00 PM »

Offline Onslaught

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Good timing.  We need him to play like he did back in his prime over the next 6 games.
He's not getting traded by the deadline. Draft day perhaps, but no team will give us what we would want for him right now.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 05:16:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Only if we ignore that Rondo himself became aware of the issue and seems to have addressed it on his time off, particularly after our good play when he went down... there was a lot of "Rondo's perspective on how to run the offense has been changing" type of stories dating back to late last season or so. Whether those stories are BS or not, well that's another thing.

So whether we stay the same or see noticeable change we'll never know exactly what the root of the problem is/was.

  I think you'd have to be of the opinion that we ran the offense that Rondo wanted and not what Doc wanted, and that our being in a half court game much of the time was because Rondo didn't like to play in transition and not because we had KG and PP out there. I think that's all fairly unlikely, but we'll never be able to disprove the "Rondo ran the team and not Doc or the big three" theories.

The only real proof we have was that last year the ball-movement was much better when Rondo wasn't on the floor, that said I accused Pierce too as being part of the problem. And when Doc decided to use Bradley as the PG, instead of the by committee thing he had going early on or PG-less if you will, the ball-movement also regressed once again, in part because Bradley sucks as a PG.

  The ball movement was good for a small stretch after Rondo went out, coincidentally during a stretch where most of the teams we played were poor defenses. It also took the rest of the league a little while to adjust to the fact that we radically changed our offense in mid-season, which rarely happens in the nba. After that the "improved ball movement" was pretty much players swinging the ball around the perimeter, nothing that was breaking down defenses or anything.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 05:39:54 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Only if we ignore that Rondo himself became aware of the issue and seems to have addressed it on his time off, particularly after our good play when he went down... there was a lot of "Rondo's perspective on how to run the offense has been changing" type of stories dating back to late last season or so. Whether those stories are BS or not, well that's another thing.

So whether we stay the same or see noticeable change we'll never know exactly what the root of the problem is/was.

  I think you'd have to be of the opinion that we ran the offense that Rondo wanted and not what Doc wanted, and that our being in a half court game much of the time was because Rondo didn't like to play in transition and not because we had KG and PP out there. I think that's all fairly unlikely, but we'll never be able to disprove the "Rondo ran the team and not Doc or the big three" theories.

The only real proof we have was that last year the ball-movement was much better when Rondo wasn't on the floor, that said I accused Pierce too as being part of the problem. And when Doc decided to use Bradley as the PG, instead of the by committee thing he had going early on or PG-less if you will, the ball-movement also regressed once again, in part because Bradley sucks as a PG.

  The ball movement was good for a small stretch after Rondo went out, coincidentally during a stretch where most of the teams we played were poor defenses. It also took the rest of the league a little while to adjust to the fact that we radically changed our offense in mid-season, which rarely happens in the nba. After that the "improved ball movement" was pretty much players swinging the ball around the perimeter, nothing that was breaking down defenses or anything.

Other than there have been an absurd amount of instances in which you could see Doc calling for the PG to push the ball, and Rondo kept walking the ball up. And yes, Rondo was pretty much in charge of play calling, so it ultimately falls to him to move the ball with the responsibilities he had been handed. But who cares at this point, it is what it is, I have moved on from playing the blame game.

Also, before Rondo went down, our bench was running quite well and the ball movement was there, so we also had a fairly good indication that the roster as constructed was moving the ball better without Rondo, and that should have never been the case, particularly with a pass first PG like Rondo. This wasn't always Rondo's MO, he used to play a lot more off the ball (though he wasn't that good off the ball at that time). I've always argued that Rondo, with his renewed ability to hit the open jumper, would've been a great asset off the ball. Why it wasn't in the gameplan after Rondo established himself in the league, I will never know.

And as mentioned, you're talking about ineffective ball-movement later in the season, when that holds no relevance to me...ball movement is ball movement, we can argue about the effectiveness of it at some later junction. That said, what I saw more than anything was a decrease in ball-movement as time went on, which directly correlates when Doc seemed to give Bradley more control of PG duties than he had previously. We've seen the result of the same this season.

Initially, what we were seeing a lot of was our team grabbing a defensive rebound and everyone running down the floor and a lot of passing forward, after a while what we started seeing was Bradley running back towards the ball, instead of running to our basket, and the rest was history because our half-court offense wasn't as effective.

In the end, I've seen Rondo destroy teams by pushing the ball all by his lonesome if needed be. Some games against the Knicks come to mind, and some in the playoffs in particular against Chicago. I've always hated the idea that a PG doesn't push the ball because the rest of the team isn't running... I'm of the camp that it should be up to the PG to push the ball, and the rest to catch up if the can. You're a PG for a reason, set the tempo.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 05:45:18 PM »

Offline Gari

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Only if we ignore that Rondo himself became aware of the issue and seems to have addressed it on his time off, particularly after our good play when he went down... there was a lot of "Rondo's perspective on how to run the offense has been changing" type of stories dating back to late last season or so. Whether those stories are BS or not, well that's another thing.

So whether we stay the same or see noticeable change we'll never know exactly what the root of the problem is/was.

  I think you'd have to be of the opinion that we ran the offense that Rondo wanted and not what Doc wanted, and that our being in a half court game much of the time was because Rondo didn't like to play in transition and not because we had KG and PP out there. I think that's all fairly unlikely, but we'll never be able to disprove the "Rondo ran the team and not Doc or the big three" theories.

The only real proof we have was that last year the ball-movement was much better when Rondo wasn't on the floor, that said I accused Pierce too as being part of the problem. And when Doc decided to use Bradley as the PG, instead of the by committee thing he had going early on or PG-less if you will, the ball-movement also regressed once again, in part because Bradley sucks as a PG.

  The ball movement was good for a small stretch after Rondo went out, coincidentally during a stretch where most of the teams we played were poor defenses. It also took the rest of the league a little while to adjust to the fact that we radically changed our offense in mid-season, which rarely happens in the nba. After that the "improved ball movement" was pretty much players swinging the ball around the perimeter, nothing that was breaking down defenses or anything.

You making a good point when you point out how guys are just passing the ball around the perimeter but not breaking the defense. Ball movement doesn't really mean just moving the ball, it means having the ball moved to disrupt a defense in order to create easy baskets. How rondo penetrating in the ORL game is much more effective than the 'ball-movement' people claimed.His penetration has created a lot of space for players to get open looks(see bass' easy jumpers around the free throw line today). Once rondo regains his full speed, I won't be surprised to see everyone's efficiency go up.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 06:45:03 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Absolutely. He didn't pound the ball at the 3pt line like he's accused by some of here, and he made jumper after jumper. He also passed very well, as he usually does. The offense flowed well, and he helped his teammates (Bradley, Bass) get into great rhythm.

19/10/6 in ONLY 26 minutes with probably not even 75% of his speed back yet. He's definitely on his way back.

We only accuse him of it because he does it a lot.

  I guess we'll find out whether he did that because he insisted on running the offense like that (as his accusers frequently claimed last year) or because of the coaching/personnel from the last few years.

Only if we ignore that Rondo himself became aware of the issue and seems to have addressed it on his time off, particularly after our good play when he went down... there was a lot of "Rondo's perspective on how to run the offense has been changing" type of stories dating back to late last season or so. Whether those stories are BS or not, well that's another thing.

So whether we stay the same or see noticeable change we'll never know exactly what the root of the problem is/was.

  I think you'd have to be of the opinion that we ran the offense that Rondo wanted and not what Doc wanted, and that our being in a half court game much of the time was because Rondo didn't like to play in transition and not because we had KG and PP out there. I think that's all fairly unlikely, but we'll never be able to disprove the "Rondo ran the team and not Doc or the big three" theories.

The only real proof we have was that last year the ball-movement was much better when Rondo wasn't on the floor, that said I accused Pierce too as being part of the problem. And when Doc decided to use Bradley as the PG, instead of the by committee thing he had going early on or PG-less if you will, the ball-movement also regressed once again, in part because Bradley sucks as a PG.

  The ball movement was good for a small stretch after Rondo went out, coincidentally during a stretch where most of the teams we played were poor defenses. It also took the rest of the league a little while to adjust to the fact that we radically changed our offense in mid-season, which rarely happens in the nba. After that the "improved ball movement" was pretty much players swinging the ball around the perimeter, nothing that was breaking down defenses or anything.

Other than there have been an absurd amount of instances in which you could see Doc calling for the PG to push the ball, and Rondo kept walking the ball up. And yes, Rondo was pretty much in charge of play calling, so it ultimately falls to him to move the ball with the responsibilities he had been handed. But who cares at this point, it is what it is, I have moved on from playing the blame game.

  You noticed Rondo walking the ball up a lot, you didn't seem to notice the players trotting up the court behind him when he did so, the ones with 5 and 34 on their jerseys. And Rondo was calling plays, but he was calling Doc's plays, he wasn't drawing them up himself. We started running the "run Ray through a pile of screens to get him open" in 2008 and never stopped, they just took longer to run as he became less able to get separation. That wasn't a Rondo play, it was a Doc play. It even continued the next season with Terry.

And as mentioned, you're talking about ineffective ball-movement later in the season, when that holds no relevance to me...ball movement is ball movement, we can argue about the effectiveness of it at some later junction. That said, what I saw more than anything was a decrease in ball-movement as time went on, which directly correlates when Doc seemed to give Bradley more control of PG duties than he had previously. We've seen the result of the same this season.

  You're talking about ineffective ball movement. 3-4 guys swinging the ball around the perimeter because none of them can really break down the defense excites you more than it does me I suppose. After the rest of the league caught on to the Celt's change in their offense you'd see these bad possessions where we'd have 4-5 passes (all outside the three point line) and then they'd give the ball to KG for a turnaround jumper with a hand in his face and 3 seconds left in the shot clock. People would happily talk about how much more enjoyable it was to watch that than Rondo controlling the ball. To each his own.

Initially, what we were seeing a lot of was our team grabbing a defensive rebound and everyone running down the floor and a lot of passing forward, after a while what we started seeing was Bradley running back towards the ball, instead of running to our basket, and the rest was history because our half-court offense wasn't as effective.

  In other words, Rondo's injury and Doc's changes got the players to hustle up the court and pass the ball to whoever was open, but after a while the rest of the team went back to their bad habits.

  Every time we'd get a defensive rebound and Rondo wasn't under the basket he'd run out into the open court and call for the ball. There's pretty much nothing else he can physically do to expedite the fast break. The guy under the basket would hold the ball there instead of passing or dribbling until Rondo vame back for the ball and people would call that "Rondo killing the transition offense". You saw the rebounders stop holding the ball for a while and then go back to doing it again, all while Rondo was injured, yet you're still apparently trying to tie it to Rondo.

In the end, I've seen Rondo destroy teams by pushing the ball all by his lonesome if needed be. Some games against the Knicks come to mind, and some in the playoffs in particular against Chicago. I've always hated the idea that a PG doesn't push the ball because the rest of the team isn't running... I'm of the camp that it should be up to the PG to push the ball, and the rest to catch up if the can. You're a PG for a reason, set the tempo.

  Yes, he's the PG. Yes, he helps set the tempo. But the team wasn't built for a fast-paced game. Our best players thrived in a half court game. Our defense was tough in the half court. We also didn't want to wear out KG in a few minutes but having him sprint up and down the court every few seconds.

Re: Rondo is back!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 09:53:25 PM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Yeah. It's looking more and more like Rondo walking it up the floor and pounding the rock is more by design than anything.

Complicated half court sets take time to set up. I've seen the Doc-era offense being aptly called the "screen maze".



As for his outburst today, color me...NOT surprised.

I truly cannot believe some of the conclusions drawn. It's truly unbelievable.

His jumper looks like it's coming around as well. His form is different, more consistent.

Seriously, what did you expect? You think Rondo just sat on his hands throughout his recovery? Again, color me NOT surprised. At Rondo's jumper today. At his overall performance today.