Cavs are a mess ~~ prey on their misfortune?

[Fafnir]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

He's been kicked out of practice a couple of times and he's been about as effective offensively as Bradley. He wouldn't help our offense till he progresses a lot.

[Roy H.]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

Dunno.

One league source, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed Waiters was removed from practice recently, per the Daily News report. But Waiters’ minutes weren’t affected by the move, which left at least a handful of players raising their eyebrows — particularly within an organization that has preached accountability since Brown’s arrival.

“That’s Dion. He’s been like that since he got here. He doesn’t think anything is his fault,” one team source said. “He’s actually better about it this year than he was last year.”

Two sources close to the team confirmed that barring a significant turnaround before the trade deadline, this roster will likely face some upheaval. That very well could include Waiters, whose act has worn thin on his teammates and various members of the organization.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-quiet-grumbling-turns-into-dissension-in-troubled-cavs-locker-room-1.463491

[nostar]

I'd take Waiters but I wouldn't give up much for him. He's probably going to follow the Evan Turner career track and start to bloom into a serviceable 6th man in this 3rd season. The question is whether or not he's a knucklehead and honestly I'm not sure. Roy spoke to that. Add in that he's had some knee issues and he's probably worth an expiring deal and a heavily protected pick. I think there are way more worthwhile guys to chase after though. I think the most I'd be willing to give up is AB, and only because he's going to get paid in the off-season. If their contracts were at the same stage I'd keep AB.

I am intrigued by the idea of Deng though. I'd like to see him as a C for his last big contract but I'd prefer it to be in the $12M/yr range. What I'd offer is this:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzsm23f

That gives the Cavs their SF of the future on a reasonable deal and some cap relief in Bogans. It moves Deng who will likely walk for nothing in the off-season. Turning Andrew Bynum's corpse in to Jeff Green isn't exactly a bad move from a GM standpoint. Hopefully we can convince Deng to sign long-term for 5yrs/$60M. If not we just move on from the Green signing and make room for the SF we're going to draft.

The problem will be that Cleveland doesn't want Green as their SF of the future. They want to chase LBJ in the off-season and Green would not only muck up their cap situation but also he plays the same position. I suspect Cleveland tries to woo LBJ and if that fails they offer a bloated contract to Deng. Spoiler alert, they end up with neither and start Clark or Gee next season!

[Donoghus]

Character aside, I just don't see that high of a ceiling for Waiters.

[Dog_Lover106]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

He's been kicked out of practice a couple of times and he's been about as effective offensively as Bradley. He wouldn't help our offense till he progresses a lot.

Well, beside the off court stuff which I would not know anything about, I would say he is off to a good start in the progress category? He is averaging over 20 a game over the last three, including over 60% FG percentage and nearly 70% from three. This is off the bench.

Certainly one of the strongest 2 guards in the league and with that stroke, the outside shot will start falling. Major talent and if he does get traded, there will be lots of competition, unless he is more difficult than reported.

No way Cleveland is dumping him for Bass or salary dump plus a low first. Honestly, what proof does anyone have that say a Marcus Smart is a better player than Dion Waiters? Smart is shooting 41% in college.

I love the Celtics and have lived and died with them since the late Russell era, but I just hate these "overvalue our assets/undervalue other team assets" trade wishes. Just not realistic IMO. Detroit is not giving us Drummond and we are not getting Alex Len for Jeff Green.

Hope I am wrong, as I would love to get a young player with some upside already in the NBA for our junk.

[wiley]

if planning a speedy turnaround Deng would be a great catch.

Sully, shot blocker, Oly
Randle, Bass, Oly
Deng, TJ Warren
Bradley, CJ
Rondo

Can Sully and Randle play well together?  Do their strengths offset the lack of height?
They both can move outside a bit but both are best inside... 

[Moranis]

Jack, Bennett, Waiters

for

Humprhies, Bradley, L.A. 1st

[ssspence]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

Dunno.

One league source, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed Waiters was removed from practice recently, per the Daily News report. But Waiters’ minutes weren’t affected by the move, which left at least a handful of players raising their eyebrows — particularly within an organization that has preached accountability since Brown’s arrival.

“That’s Dion. He’s been like that since he got here. He doesn’t think anything is his fault,” one team source said. “He’s actually better about it this year than he was last year.”

Two sources close to the team confirmed that barring a significant turnaround before the trade deadline, this roster will likely face some upheaval. That very well could include Waiters, whose act has worn thin on his teammates and various members of the organization.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-quiet-grumbling-turns-into-dissension-in-troubled-cavs-locker-room-1.463491

Are you saying I should have read the whole article?

I'm not married to Waiters -- and I certainly don't want him to replace Bradley. I'm more interested in ideas as to how we can thieve value from Cleveland.

Anyone? And be realistic. None of this Bennett for expiring stuff.

[Depalma2002]

I'd take Waiters but I wouldn't give up much for him. He's probably going to follow the Evan Turner career track and start to bloom into a serviceable 6th man in this 3rd season. The question is whether or not he's a knucklehead and honestly I'm not sure. Roy spoke to that. Add in that he's had some knee issues and he's probably worth an expiring deal and a heavily protected pick. I think there are way more worthwhile guys to chase after though. I think the most I'd be willing to give up is AB, and only because he's going to get paid in the off-season. If their contracts were at the same stage I'd keep AB.

I am intrigued by the idea of Deng though. I'd like to see him as a C for his last big contract but I'd prefer it to be in the $12M/yr range. What I'd offer is this:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzsm23f

That gives the Cavs their SF of the future on a reasonable deal and some cap relief in Bogans. It moves Deng who will likely walk for nothing in the off-season. Turning Andrew Bynum's corpse in to Jeff Green isn't exactly a bad move from a GM standpoint. Hopefully we can convince Deng to sign long-term for 5yrs/$60M. If not we just move on from the Green signing and make room for the SF we're going to draft.

The problem will be that Cleveland doesn't want Green as their SF of the future. They want to chase LBJ in the off-season and Green would not only muck up their cap situation but also he plays the same position. I suspect Cleveland tries to woo LBJ and if that fails they offer a bloated contract to Deng. Spoiler alert, they end up with neither and start Clark or Gee next season!

If we want Deng over Green, we can just go after him in free agency.

No need to trade Green and have Deng leave and get nothing in return for Green.

If Deng signs we can either work a sign and trade with Cleveland which relieves us of Green's contract or we can move Green in a separate deal and get extra value.

The only incentives to trade for a free-agent-to be are:
1. If you need him to contend (and we aren't contenders)
2. You gain an advantage in free agency since you can go to 5 years.

However, going to 5 years is only an advantage if you plan to offer that. If you don't offer that and don't offer max years, it might even be held against you.

Deng is 28 but has played a lot of minutes in his career. There are some who think his high mileage may hurt his longevity. I don't think it's wise to offer him 5 years.

So, even if they want Deng (and I'm not sold that they should), it is much preferable, IMHO, to wait until the offseason.

[Depalma2002]

if planning a speedy turnaround Deng would be a great catch.

Sully, shot blocker, Oly
Randle, Bass, Oly
Deng, TJ Warren
Bradley, CJ
Rondo

Can Sully and Randle play well together?  Do their strengths offset the lack of height?
They both can move outside a bit but both are best inside...

I don't like Randle and Sully together. We need some length and shotblocking ability among our starting bigs.

I would rather go with Noah Vonleh over Randle. Still not a true center, but he has length, and has shown ability to rebound, defend, and block shots on the NCAA level. He also can shoot from the outside and stretch a defense and while his low post game needs work, it is not totally non-existent.

I think Sully and Vonleh would complement each other well and be a nice young court pair that can go grow together.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

Dunno.

One league source, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed Waiters was removed from practice recently, per the Daily News report. But Waiters’ minutes weren’t affected by the move, which left at least a handful of players raising their eyebrows — particularly within an organization that has preached accountability since Brown’s arrival.

“That’s Dion. He’s been like that since he got here. He doesn’t think anything is his fault,” one team source said. “He’s actually better about it this year than he was last year.”

Two sources close to the team confirmed that barring a significant turnaround before the trade deadline, this roster will likely face some upheaval. That very well could include Waiters, whose act has worn thin on his teammates and various members of the organization.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-quiet-grumbling-turns-into-dissension-in-troubled-cavs-locker-room-1.463491

Are you saying I should have read the whole article?

I'm not married to Waiters -- and I certainly don't want him to replace Bradley. I'm more interested in ideas as to how we can thieve value from Cleveland.

Anyone? And be realistic. None of this Bennett for expiring stuff.

I'm guessing that he's trying to tell you that allegations against Waiters may not only be a result of him having a bad rep. He could very well be a malcontent.

[Moranis]

I'd probably do Bass for expirings too.

Not a fan of Waiters.

I think Waiters is getting a bad wrap, when it's Irving who may deserve it more.

The Cs struggle to score -- Waiters does not.

Dunno.

One league source, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed Waiters was removed from practice recently, per the Daily News report. But Waiters’ minutes weren’t affected by the move, which left at least a handful of players raising their eyebrows — particularly within an organization that has preached accountability since Brown’s arrival.

“That’s Dion. He’s been like that since he got here. He doesn’t think anything is his fault,” one team source said. “He’s actually better about it this year than he was last year.”

Two sources close to the team confirmed that barring a significant turnaround before the trade deadline, this roster will likely face some upheaval. That very well could include Waiters, whose act has worn thin on his teammates and various members of the organization.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/cavs/jason-lloyd-quiet-grumbling-turns-into-dissension-in-troubled-cavs-locker-room-1.463491

Are you saying I should have read the whole article?

I'm not married to Waiters -- and I certainly don't want him to replace Bradley. I'm more interested in ideas as to how we can thieve value from Cleveland.

Anyone? And be realistic. None of this Bennett for expiring stuff.

I'm guessing that he's trying to tell you that allegations against Waiters may not only be a result of him having a bad rep. He could very well be a malcontent.

Yeah but his initial post was about Irving being the bigger problem and that may very well be true and Waiters' malcontentance (I know that isn't a word) may very well be as a result of Irving.

[ssspence]

I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere... but why not trade Green and Bass for Luol Deng? If the stories are to be believed, he's 100% outta there at the end of the season. It's bad enough there, you wonder if they'll get trigger happy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nyqytaz

[ssspence]

I'm guessing that he's trying to tell you that allegations against Waiters may not only be a result of him having a bad rep. He could very well be a malcontent.

Hey thanks for the tip.

[moiso]

I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere... but why not trade Green and Bass for Luol Deng? If the stories are to be believed, he's 100% outta there at the end of the season. It's bad enough there, you wonder if they'll get trigger happy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nyqytaz

Because he wants a ton of money.  Which is why Chicago let him go.