Author Topic: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?  (Read 7753 times)

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Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 07:39:18 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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What's notable about that video is the complete lack of disrespect the Miami defense is giving Rondo.  Look at the space... they aren't even near him.  Half his shots are completely uncontested jumpers.  They are literally daring him to shoot the ball.  It's how you defend a center when he's behind the 3 point line.  "Go ahead big man... shoot... I dare ya".   It's a byproduct of Rondo sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.  Kevin Garnett, a nasty mid-range shooter.  And lastly, Brandon Bass... a player we traded for exclusively because of his reliable and dangerous mid-range shooting game.  Bass and KG draw the bigs out of the paint.  Pierce and Ray can't be left alone.  So essentially Miami is making a conscious decision in this game to slack off Rondo and let him shoot.  They also are trying (ineffectively, but that's due to a lack of rim protector) to prevent drive-and-kicks. 

So they are basically daring Rondo to shoot.  Ultimately, it's a smart plan.  Rondo is a poor shooter.  Sure, once in a lifetime he'll drop 44 points, but it's a risk worth taking.

Miami won the game. 

It's actually not a new approach.  In the 80s I remember Boston making a conscious decision to let Jordan score and stop everyone else.  Jordan went off for 63 points, but Boston won the game.   Actually, we kind of did the same thing with LeBron back in his early years with the Cavs before he developed a dangerous outside game.  Let LeBron do his thing just stop everyone else.  Not so coincidentally, Miami let Jeff Green go off in a regular season game a year later... Miami won both games. 

Anyways... if Rondo could score consistently like this, he wouldn't have been left open like that.  Right now in the post KG/Pierce/Ray/Doc world he's got shooting splits of 28%/23%/50%.  That's really not someone you need to worry about on the offensive end.  Miami decided that night they were going to let Boston live and die with Rondo.  It was a successful strategy for them.

Are you seriously judging Rondo's "post big 3" shooting figures based on what he's shooting 6 or 7 games back from an ACL injury that had him not playing for an entire year?

Bradley came back at the start of this year and was shooting numbers pretty close to that - now his figures are up around 45% FG and 40% 3PT. 

Being out for a year with an injury will do that to you.

With all due respect, judging Rondo's potential post-big3 figures based on his current numbers is beyond ignorant.


Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 07:57:52 AM »

Offline JBcat

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What's notable about that video is the complete lack of disrespect the Miami defense is giving Rondo.  Look at the space... they aren't even near him.  Half his shots are completely uncontested jumpers.  They are literally daring him to shoot the ball.  It's how you defend a center when he's behind the 3 point line.  "Go ahead big man... shoot... I dare ya".   It's a byproduct of Rondo sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.

  Why wouldn't they dare Rondo to shoot from the outside? They were wholly unable to keep him from getting into the lane or getting assists as it was, playing him closely would have made it that much harder to stop either of those things, both of which were a much larger concern than his mid-range shooting. Considering we had them on the brink of elimination in that series and Rondo (21/7/11) was the main reason for that it's safe to say that Miami had a pretty healthy level of respect for Rondo that year. He was killing them during the regular season that year as well.

  And Paul Pierce isn't the best pure scorer in Celtics history, Bird was. You'd think someone with a username like yours would know that.

I tend to agree but Bob Ryan, Tommy Heinhson, and I've heard Bird's teammate Robert Parish also say the same thing about Pierce.  One thing I will say is I don't think Bird could drive, and draw as many fouls as Pierce did.

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 10:26:35 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What's notable about that video is the complete lack of disrespect the Miami defense is giving Rondo.  Look at the space... they aren't even near him.  Half his shots are completely uncontested jumpers.  They are literally daring him to shoot the ball.  It's how you defend a center when he's behind the 3 point line.  "Go ahead big man... shoot... I dare ya".   It's a byproduct of Rondo sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.

  Why wouldn't they dare Rondo to shoot from the outside? They were wholly unable to keep him from getting into the lane or getting assists as it was, playing him closely would have made it that much harder to stop either of those things, both of which were a much larger concern than his mid-range shooting. Considering we had them on the brink of elimination in that series and Rondo (21/7/11) was the main reason for that it's safe to say that Miami had a pretty healthy level of respect for Rondo that year. He was killing them during the regular season that year as well.

  And Paul Pierce isn't the best pure scorer in Celtics history, Bird was. You'd think someone with a username like yours would know that.

I tend to agree but Bob Ryan, Tommy Heinhson, and I've heard Bird's teammate Robert Parish also say the same thing about Pierce.  One thing I will say is I don't think Bird could drive, and draw as many fouls as Pierce did.

  True, Bird didn't draw fouls like PP did. But something you have to consider is how many points PP was putting up on bad teams. When KG and RA got onto the team Paul's ppg dropped by about 5 ppg compared to what he'd averaged before that. Bird played with "big three" level players for most of his career, especially his healthy years. If PP was on good teams longer and you knock a few ppg off of his career totals it isn't much of a conversation.

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 11:28:13 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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What's notable about that video is the complete lack of disrespect the Miami defense is giving Rondo.  Look at the space... they aren't even near him.  Half his shots are completely uncontested jumpers.  They are literally daring him to shoot the ball.  It's how you defend a center when he's behind the 3 point line.  "Go ahead big man... shoot... I dare ya".   It's a byproduct of Rondo sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.  Kevin Garnett, a nasty mid-range shooter.  And lastly, Brandon Bass... a player we traded for exclusively because of his reliable and dangerous mid-range shooting game.  Bass and KG draw the bigs out of the paint.  Pierce and Ray can't be left alone.  So essentially Miami is making a conscious decision in this game to slack off Rondo and let him shoot.  They also are trying (ineffectively, but that's due to a lack of rim protector) to prevent drive-and-kicks. 

So they are basically daring Rondo to shoot.  Ultimately, it's a smart plan.  Rondo is a poor shooter.  Sure, once in a lifetime he'll drop 44 points, but it's a risk worth taking.

Miami won the game. 

It's actually not a new approach.  In the 80s I remember Boston making a conscious decision to let Jordan score and stop everyone else.  Jordan went off for 63 points, but Boston won the game.   Actually, we kind of did the same thing with LeBron back in his early years with the Cavs before he developed a dangerous outside game.  Let LeBron do his thing just stop everyone else.  Not so coincidentally, Miami let Jeff Green go off in a regular season game a year later... Miami won both games. 

Anyways... if Rondo could score consistently like this, he wouldn't have been left open like that.  Right now in the post KG/Pierce/Ray/Doc world he's got shooting splits of 28%/23%/50%.  That's really not someone you need to worry about on the offensive end.  Miami decided that night they were going to let Boston live and die with Rondo.  It was a successful strategy for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-meNeNB6o

In watching this video of all of Rondo's points and assists in that Miami series, the thing that jumps out at me is that after that huge performance in game two, the Heat started playing Rondo differently.  Instead of almost exclusively going under picks and daring him to take that perimeter shot, they started fighting over the pick much more and bringing a big up to "show" against Rondo in the pick and roll game. 

Rondo hitting those jump shots early in the series was a major factor in the Celtics playing so well in those middle three games and being able to take the Heat to seven.  It opened up a lot of opportunities for the team, and helped keep Miami's defense on their toes. 

If you think back to last year's finals, one of the reasons that the Spurs were able to make that series so competitive (it still hurts for me that they blew a series that they had in the bag) was because they successfully employed the dare-Lebron-to-shoot-from-the-perimeter strategy for most of the series.  If James had been knocking down the mid-range jumper with consistency throughout that series, the Spurs would eventually have had to back of that strategy and it probably wouldn't have been as close as it was. 

I guess my overall point is that no one is completely unguardable, not even the best player in the game.  Good defensive teams look for strategies to try to eliminate the effectiveness of the best players on the opposing teams.  Sometimes good defensive teams find successful game plans to stop (or at least minimize the effect of) great players.

I know it's easy to think that every single teenage basketball player with a youtube video is some day going to be a flawless basketball player when he enters the NBA, and all we have to do is strip everything down and put ourselves in a position for one of those guys, and it's an automatic return to NBA dominance.  It's easy to glorify a young player's skills when he still has tons of  potential.  And, it's equally easy to put the flaws of proven NBA veterans under a microscope and rip apart the games of everyone not named Lebron James or Kevin Durant.

To me, the above line of thinking by so many NBA fans and those who cover the game for a living is a big part of what's wrong with our league.  Everyone is always looking for the next great thing while being perfectly willing to throw away excellent players in that search.   Generally, all those young players with worlds of potential end up proving to have some flaws when they mature into pros, just like everybody else.





 
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Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 12:08:34 PM »

Offline BballTim

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What's notable about that video is the complete lack of disrespect the Miami defense is giving Rondo.  Look at the space... they aren't even near him.  Half his shots are completely uncontested jumpers.  They are literally daring him to shoot the ball.  It's how you defend a center when he's behind the 3 point line.  "Go ahead big man... shoot... I dare ya".   It's a byproduct of Rondo sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.  Kevin Garnett, a nasty mid-range shooter.  And lastly, Brandon Bass... a player we traded for exclusively because of his reliable and dangerous mid-range shooting game.  Bass and KG draw the bigs out of the paint.  Pierce and Ray can't be left alone.  So essentially Miami is making a conscious decision in this game to slack off Rondo and let him shoot.  They also are trying (ineffectively, but that's due to a lack of rim protector) to prevent drive-and-kicks. 

So they are basically daring Rondo to shoot.  Ultimately, it's a smart plan.  Rondo is a poor shooter.  Sure, once in a lifetime he'll drop 44 points, but it's a risk worth taking.

Miami won the game. 

It's actually not a new approach.  In the 80s I remember Boston making a conscious decision to let Jordan score and stop everyone else.  Jordan went off for 63 points, but Boston won the game.   Actually, we kind of did the same thing with LeBron back in his early years with the Cavs before he developed a dangerous outside game.  Let LeBron do his thing just stop everyone else.  Not so coincidentally, Miami let Jeff Green go off in a regular season game a year later... Miami won both games. 

Anyways... if Rondo could score consistently like this, he wouldn't have been left open like that.  Right now in the post KG/Pierce/Ray/Doc world he's got shooting splits of 28%/23%/50%.  That's really not someone you need to worry about on the offensive end.  Miami decided that night they were going to let Boston live and die with Rondo.  It was a successful strategy for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I-meNeNB6o


  Great video. *Clearly* a player who could never be the best or second best player on a contender...

  A couple of things worth pointing out:

  If you didn't watch much of the video, start watching around the 10th minute or so when Miami starts double-teaming Rondo on the perimeter (I think you call that a complete lack of disrespect above). Rondo was "sharing the floor with 3 4 dangerous offensive weapons.  Ray Allen, the greatest 3-point threat alive.  Pierce, the greatest pure scorer in Celtic history.  Kevin Garnett, a nasty mid-range shooter.  And lastly, Brandon Bass... a player we traded for exclusively because of his reliable and dangerous mid-range shooting game", and they were concerned enough about Rondo's game that they left those other guys to try and slow Rondo down.

  Also notice that when they did double Rondo he was simply carving up the defense with his passing. If you combine how easily he gets assist when the defense guards him closely with how often he gets to the rim (watch the whole video, you'll probably lose track of how many layups he gets) and you can see, again, that Rondo's shooting is far from the only reason defenses have to play off of him.

  If you watch the other series from that year or some of his previous playoff series you'll notice teams trying a multitude of defenses in order to try and contain Rondo. His detractors generally refer to this as "defenses ignoring Rondo". That's not what happens in the games and it hasn't been for a number of years.

  Also check out how much opposing teams respect his passing. Watch the whole video and you'll probably see a dozen or so cases where Rondo went in for unmolested layups because the defenders in the lane were too concerned about his passing to leave their man and stop him. That's rare, especially when it's happening once or twice a game in a playoff series.

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2014, 12:20:34 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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i dont know what was more impressive, his point total or his back to back 3's at crunch time at the end?

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2014, 12:41:18 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I want him siting on the bench getting rid of his limp  ::).......and us losing many games as possible

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2014, 12:53:13 PM »

Offline BballTim

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i dont know what was more impressive, his point total or his back to back 3's at crunch time at the end?

  Scoring or assisting more points in the series than LeBron?

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2014, 01:12:41 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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When rondo pushes the pace he is on another level vs walking up the court.


Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2014, 01:16:46 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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National TV Rondo is one of my favorites to watch.

When he's in the zone, he was one of the most exciting players I've ever seen.


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Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2014, 03:37:50 PM »

Offline bobbyv

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We just saw a glimpse of him today  ;D

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2014, 04:30:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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couldn't catch the game tonight. How did Rondo do?

did he make a few transition baskets?

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2014, 04:31:58 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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couldn't catch the game tonight. How did Rondo do?

did he make a few transition baskets?

19 points on 9-11 shooting with 10 assists.

Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2014, 04:32:53 PM »

Offline Clench123

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couldn't catch the game tonight. How did Rondo do?

did he make a few transition baskets?

19 points on 9-11 shooting with 10 assists.

In 27 minutes

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Re: How many can't wait to see this version of Rondo?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2014, 04:39:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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When rondo pushes the pace he is on another level vs walking up the court.

  Even if we don't rush the ball up the court he's a great half court player. In general he pushes the ball if there's a transition opportunity, otherwise he slows down a little and sets up a play. It looks like he's doing quite a bit less dribbling at the top of the key, no doubt because we aren't running the "let's spend 5-6 seconds trying to use screens to get the SG open" play that was a staple the last few years.