Sully and KO

[Snakehead]

  Food for thought: just for a little "meaningless perspective", I did a quick check on basketballreference to compare Sully and KO statistically to similar players. KO's averaging 6/4 in 18 mpg. Over the last 9 years 39 players 6'9 and over have hit those marks in their rookie years (http://bkref.com/tiny/S1WaD). Sully is going for 12/7 in 26 mpg, over the last 9 seasons 18 players 6'9 or over hit those marks in their second seasons (http://bkref.com/tiny/4k4bb).

  So, not so bad. Sully's numbers have dipped recently due to his hand injury and KO's will hopefully improve as the season progresses, so from a statistical perspective you can't really complain that much about either of them. KO's clearly had shooting issues but he hasn't really been that much of a bust considering his draft position.


  KO

He hasn't at all.

His stats compare like exactly to Dirk's.  Even a bit better actually.

I think this forum has out of whack expectations on young players.  Everyone has to be KD or LeBron.  Some people don't get that young players are constantly improving.  You look for the positives and the biggest thing to come over time is consistency.

Sullinger is already a legit player and only needs to get more consistent.  Olynyk is just too skilled to not succeed, I think.

[moiso]

I am not too worried about Sullinger but unfortunately I can't say the same about Kelly. I know Olynyk is a rookie but he is actually a year older than Sully.

I love the kid, nickname Sunshine really fits him, and I hope he can prove us all wrong. But, by spending 3 years at Gonzaga he was supposed to be NBA ready, yet he looks completely lost on the defensive end. To make things worse, his shot is not falling which makes him impossible to play.

When a 13th pick is not getting 25 mins a game regularly on a team that's not really trying to win, you have to be worried. Who thought that Hump is going to get playing time ahead of him before the season started? Certainly not me.

Despite all that, I am not ready to write him off. I just hope that Stevens will get him more playing time after the trade deadline. He needs to play through his mistakes and learn, no point in playing Hump 20 mins a game when he is clearly not in our future plans.

  Humphries has had multiple seasons where he's averaged a double-double. I'm not really a fan of his but I don't see why people are surprised by his play. He's no star but he's a solid rotation player.

Keep seeing this happen -- first with Green, now with Humphries.


People are somehow surprised when established players bounce back after a season where they had a reduced role, even though their per-minute production stays virtually the same the whole time.

I didn't expect the hustle.

I was expecting that he'd go out there and get his double double, if given the minutes, without truly impacting the game most of the time.

For that I'm very pleasantly surprised.

Every single time I've ever seen Humphries play, he has been a great hustler.  Even to the point of making bad decisions because he was playing so fired up.

[BballTim]

I don't get the impression people really understand Sully's potential. He had a 20/20 game against a top front court and now people are calling him fat. He's a throwback guy. Watch him be a top PF in the league in a year or two. He's that promising.

Olden Polynice, Ed Pinckney and JR Reid, among other notable nobodies, also had 20/20 games. What people don't understand is that one game is exactly what it says -- one game.

Also, he's fat. You may like to pretend that it doesn't matter and that "if you can play, you can play" -- but extra weight is the last thing a player with a chronic back condition what required surgery wants. Even if it doesn't impact his current performance, it surely impacts his longevity and his ability to stay on the court. And it shows an irresponsible attitude towards his professional career that I don't particularly like.

  Polynice and Reid IMO never showed anywhere near the potential. Pickney was a career underachiever but certainly could have been better than he was. I'd call him a poor man's Jeff Green. Point is, while the 20/20 game was one game, it's not the only time we've seen him play.

  Also, he's not really fat. He could have a long career at this weight. The concern (other than the back surgery) is his pulling a Hot Plate/Oliver Miller/Tractor Trailer move and gain weight. It's hard to call it irresponsible or unprofessional when he spent the offseason (when he would have been working on his strength/conditioning) recovering from back surgery. I'd see it as more of an issue next year if he looks the same.

[tyrone biggums]

I think if you switch the height of Sully and KO it would go a long way. Unfortunately that's not the case. KO and Sully would both benefit from the Celtics drafting Embiid since he is a defensive minded center.

[kozlodoev]

Also, he's not really fat. He could have a long career at this weight. The concern (other than the back surgery) is his pulling a Hot Plate/Oliver Miller/Tractor Trailer move and gain weight. It's hard to call it irresponsible or unprofessional when he spent the offseason (when he would have been working on his strength/conditioning) recovering from back surgery. I'd see it as more of an issue next year if he looks the same.

To me, the shape he's currently in is worrisome on its own accord. He's clearly carrying too much for his frame, whether you'd call him fat or not. I mean, it's good that he doesn't look like Michael Sweetney, but is this really the measuring stick here?

I appreciate the fact that he was recovering from back surgery -- but I don't buy the excuse, since I've seen other athletes go through more complicated procedures, and not come back looking like Chubby Checker. Rondo, Gronk, and even Al Jefferson come to mind right away, I'm sure there are more.

The thing is, he was in great shape for the draft and early on in his rookie year, then never bothered to maintain that. I don't expect everyone to work out like Kevin Garnett and Kenrick Perkins, but I can't pin any sort of long-run hopes on an undersized, overweight forward with chronic back issues -- regardless of the talent. In my book, he's in the "all we can get is a bonus" column so far.

[BballTim]

Also, he's not really fat. He could have a long career at this weight. The concern (other than the back surgery) is his pulling a Hot Plate/Oliver Miller/Tractor Trailer move and gain weight. It's hard to call it irresponsible or unprofessional when he spent the offseason (when he would have been working on his strength/conditioning) recovering from back surgery. I'd see it as more of an issue next year if he looks the same.

To me, the shape he's currently in is worrisome on its own accord. He's clearly carrying too much for his frame, whether you'd call him fat or not. I mean, it's good that he doesn't look like Michael Sweetney, but is this really the measuring stick here?

I appreciate the fact that he was recovering from back surgery -- but I don't buy the excuse, since I've seen other athletes go through more complicated procedures, and not come back looking like Chubby Checker. Rondo, Gronk, and even Al Jefferson come to mind right away, I'm sure there are more.

The thing is, he was in great shape for the draft and early on in his rookie year, then never bothered to maintain that. I don't expect everyone to work out like Kevin Garnett and Kenrick Perkins, but I can't pin any sort of long-run hopes on an undersized, overweight forward with chronic back issues -- regardless of the talent. In my book, he's in the "all we can get is a bonus" column so far.

  Al Jefferson wasn't in really great shape when he joined the team and I don't think that really changed until the start of his 3rd season or so. Same with Perk. It's been my experience that when you see a player improve their physique it's generally during the offseason and Sully didn't have a chance to do that yet. Not saying you're wrong, but it's too soon to draw any meaningful conclusions.

[kozlodoev]

Al Jefferson wasn't in really great shape when he joined the team and I don't think that really changed until the start of his 3rd season or so. Same with Perk. It's been my experience that when you see a player improve their physique it's generally during the offseason and Sully didn't have a chance to do that yet. Not saying you're wrong, but it's too soon to draw any meaningful conclusions.

Perk was particularly rotund when he was drafted, to a level to which it affected his stock.

That's not a problem in and of itself, what's worrying me is that Sullinger's shape has arguably deteriorated since he was drafted.

But you're right that we'll wait and see.

[pablohoney]

Big Baby is a beast in the gym but he is fat because of his diet.  I suspect the same is true for Sully.

[PaulAllen]

I am sticking to my point because its valid... First of all I like both players, I think they are the best assets the celtics have and eventually I think they will be traded for a premier player.. just my thought...

so I went into it deeper.. I have noticed Sullingers weight gain especially over the last month or so so i looked at his numbers... while his rebounds are up his points and minutes are down.. conditioning? it would seem so because the 3-4 games I was able to watch he looks slow out there... his rebounds come on his ability to position and not on hustle..

KO has really not gotten into rhythem this year .. had a few nice games but thhe last games i watched he looked slow and lazy... his minutes keep falling as well...

Watch the games especially if you have access to games daily...  but the games I have watched I see their prodution fall...

and it not a reach its because of gained weight, poor eating, bad conditioning etc..

[BballTim]

I am sticking to my point because its valid... First of all I like both players, I think they are the best assets the celtics have and eventually I think they will be traded for a premier player.. just my thought...

so I went into it deeper.. I have noticed Sullingers weight gain especially over the last month or so so i looked at his numbers... while his rebounds are up his points and minutes are down.. conditioning? it would seem so because the 3-4 games I was able to watch he looks slow out there... his rebounds come on his ability to position and not on hustle..

KO has really not gotten into rhythem this year .. had a few nice games but thhe last games i watched he looked slow and lazy... his minutes keep falling as well...

Watch the games especially if you have access to games daily...  but the games I have watched I see their prodution fall...

and it not a reach its because of gained weight, poor eating, bad conditioning etc..

  Sullinger's production dropped when he was struggling with a hand injury. It wasn't related to sudden weight gain.

[PaulAllen]

I am sticking to my point because its valid... First of all I like both players, I think they are the best assets the celtics have and eventually I think they will be traded for a premier player.. just my thought...

so I went into it deeper.. I have noticed Sullingers weight gain especially over the last month or so so i looked at his numbers... while his rebounds are up his points and minutes are down.. conditioning? it would seem so because the 3-4 games I was able to watch he looks slow out there... his rebounds come on his ability to position and not on hustle..

KO has really not gotten into rhythem this year .. had a few nice games but thhe last games i watched he looked slow and lazy... his minutes keep falling as well...

Watch the games especially if you have access to games daily...  but the games I have watched I see their prodution fall...

and it not a reach its because of gained weight, poor eating, bad conditioning etc..

  Sullinger's production dropped when he was struggling with a hand injury. It wasn't related to sudden weight gain.

regardless he still looks slow and sluggish on the floor recently...