Rondo and Green just don't mesh together?

[Galeto]

What else does he do besides score? Rebound? No. Assists? No. The guy plays most games like he is not interested.

Defense is half of the game and he plays it really well.  And with versatility.

If anyone watched Jeff Green play defense I don't see how they can say "oh he isn't interested".  Does no one watch defense?

I'm not saying he is one of your core players to build around.  But he isn't overpaid like people say for what he brings and he's a really nice complementary player.  An effecient player who scores 16 a night on average, spaces the floor, shoots threes well, is a good defender, has length, and every once in a while really goes off.

Nothing to be so negative about.

I watch his defense.  I don't think it's anything special.  While he posted very good isolation against percentages last year, I doubt they're as impressive this season. His team defense wasn't good last season and I don't think it's improved.

I don't think Rondo makes Green better but I also don't think Green would be that much better if he got to dominate the ball.  So much of his value comes down to streaky hot shooting because he's very one-dimensional.  It's frustrating not to know what to expect from him. Good players mostly compile their averages by putting up their averages game after game.  With Green for instance, he comes to his rebound average by getting 9 one game and then 2 the next.  Or he'll be really hot from three and that'll make his five game average respectable even if he shoots like 12 percent from three 3/5 games.

Core players have to be consistent and reliable.

[2short]

Well for what it's worth, that seemed to be my take-away last season.  Rondo and Green don't mix.  Green needs the ball to be effective.  He needs to drive inside  and do his thing.  In the Rondo-centric offense, Green basically just stood around.  Part of the reason we played better last season without Rondo was because Green stepped up in Rondo's absence.  It's not in the least bit surprising to me that Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting.

And btw... what's the grace period on Rondo's return?  So far he's been crap.  Do we not get to fairly judge him as a "star" until next season?  Because as of right now,  his trade value is plummeting.

The rest so the season is rondos grace period.

 He is playing limited minutes, shot is off, guys don't know how to play with him cohesively yet.

You do realize in limited minutes last night while not playing well rondo nearly had a triple double ?

[rickyfan3.0...]

It's not that he's not interested, he's just not a good basketball player unless he gets hot, which is every few games. Then once in a while he goes supernova and gives you a night like the other night... He is inconsistent because he isn't fine tuned enough.

I think his stats tell perfectly what he is... A mediocre scorer on a bad team.

[slamtheking]

I don't think it's because of Rondo -- Green has looked just as lost without Rondo on the court

Impressive to be lost and find yourself to 39 points the other day.

He is an inconsistent scorer.  His lows don't make his highs non existent.  This is just how it is.

even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[Chris]

Jeff Green doesn't really "mesh" with anyone it seems.  He is what he is, and that is a very streaky player, whose attention span seems to be very short, but who can win you games.

[sed522002]

Well for what it's worth, that seemed to be my take-away last season.  Rondo and Green don't mix.  Green needs the ball to be effective.  He needs to drive inside  and do his thing.  In the Rondo-centric offense, Green basically just stood around.  Part of the reason we played better last season without Rondo was because Green stepped up in Rondo's absence.  It's not in the least bit surprising to me that Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting.

And btw... what's the grace period on Rondo's return?  So far he's been crap.  Do we not get to fairly judge him as a "star" until next season?  Because as of right now,  his trade value is plummeting.

1. He's had plenty time this season without Rondo and didn't step up often at all

2. How long did it take you to judge Green when he came back or AB from surgery? Considering he just now been cleared to play 30 mins he can get some sort of consistency now.

[GreenWarrior]

I still say one of green's biggest problems is he doesn't get the ball early and often enough.

[vinnie]

Well for what it's worth, that seemed to be my take-away last season.  Rondo and Green don't mix.  Green needs the ball to be effective.  He needs to drive inside  and do his thing.  In the Rondo-centric offense, Green basically just stood around.  Part of the reason we played better last season without Rondo was because Green stepped up in Rondo's absence.  It's not in the least bit surprising to me that Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting.

And btw... what's the grace period on Rondo's return?  So far he's been crap.  Do we not get to fairly judge him as a "star" until next season?  Because as of right now,  his trade value is plummeting.

So why didn't Green step up this year in Rondo's absence? He has been the same old a Uncle Snooze Button.

[RRNoLookPass]

Well for what it's worth, that seemed to be my take-away last season.  Rondo and Green don't mix.  Green needs the ball to be effective.  He needs to drive inside  and do his thing.  In the Rondo-centric offense, Green basically just stood around.  Part of the reason we played better last season without Rondo was because Green stepped up in Rondo's absence.  It's not in the least bit surprising to me that Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting.

And btw... what's the grace period on Rondo's return?  So far he's been crap.  Do we not get to fairly judge him as a "star" until next season?  Because as of right now,  his trade value is plummeting.

Ever consider that maybe Green played better after Rondo went down last yr, because he played more minutes, and started more games in the second half of the season? Just because Green stepped up his game after Rondo got injured last yr, does not mean he plays better without Rondo. Everyone on the team has to step up their game when your all-star point guard goes down for the season. Pierce stepped his game up big time after Rondo got injured too. Paul ended last season with the best rebounding & assist averages he had accumulated in many years. He knew he had to step up his rebounding and his passing as much as possible after Rondo went down, since those were two areas of the game that Rondo had major impacts on last season. Does the fact that Pierce stepped his game up in Rondo's absence mean that he played better without Rondo? Ummm, negative.

And Green has shown that he actually does not need the ball a ton to be effective. Hence the fact that he leads the C's in scoring this season without even leading the team in shot attempts.

And of course Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting. It would be weird if they hadn't, seeing as Rondo has sat out a whopping 41 games this season, and has only played in 5.

Unless your basing this assumption on the single game Rondo sat out again since his return...The game against Washington. Which is quite an assumption to make. Yes, Green had a season high in the Washington game, but so did Pressey. And Wallace arguably had his best all-around game of the season against Washington as well. This is not a new thing, for players to step their game up when their team is so depleted with injuries. And it is really just a huge stretch to analyze an individual's success in one game and then blame it on a single player being out of the lineup. Especially when so many other Celtics sat out that game as well.

[cman88]

It's not that he's not interested, he's just not a good basketball player unless he gets hot, which is every few games. Then once in a while he goes supernova and gives you a night like the other night... He is inconsistent because he isn't fine tuned enough.

I think his stats tell perfectly what he is... A mediocre scorer on a bad team.

he's not a bad basketball player...bad basketball players dont average 15-16ppg but he's not close to an allstar who can put up 20ppg that fans want to view him as

[ManUp]

What else does he do besides score? Rebound? No. Assists? No. The guy plays most games like he is not interested.

Defense is half of the game and he plays it really well.  And with versatility.

If anyone watched Jeff Green play defense I don't see how they can say "oh he isn't interested".  Does no one watch defense?

I'm not saying he is one of your core players to build around.  But he isn't overpaid like people say for what he brings and he's a really nice complementary player.  An effecient player who scores 16 a night on average, spaces the floor, shoots threes well, is a good defender, has length, and every once in a while really goes off.

Nothing to be so negative about.

I watch his defense.  I don't think it's anything special.  While he posted very good isolation against percentages last year, I doubt they're as impressive this season. His team defense wasn't good last season and I don't think it's improved.

I don't think Rondo makes Green better but I also don't think Green would be that much better if he got to dominate the ball.  So much of his value comes down to streaky hot shooting because he's very one-dimensional.  It's frustrating not to know what to expect from him. Good players mostly compile their averages by putting up their averages game after game.  With Green for instance, he comes to his rebound average by getting 9 one game and then 2 the next.  Or he'll be really hot from three and that'll make his five game average respectable even if he shoots like 12 percent from three 3/5 games.

Core players have to be consistent and reliable.

TP.

You understand.

[jambr380]

It's not that he's not interested, he's just not a good basketball player unless he gets hot, which is every few games. Then once in a while he goes supernova and gives you a night like the other night... He is inconsistent because he isn't fine tuned enough.

I think his stats tell perfectly what he is... A mediocre scorer on a bad team.

he's not a bad basketball player...bad basketball players dont average 15-16ppg but he's not close to an allstar who can put up 20ppg that fans want to view him as

He's the same scorer on whatever team he is on...while he can sometime fluctuate from game to game (like almost any player), he is nearly the same player from season to season. It's quite amazing really.

So he hasn't averaged 25 ppg on a bad Celtics team. He has still averaged over 16 ppg - the same as he did on solid Thunder teams.

With Crawford gone, the floodgates have really opened up on trashing Green.

[RRNoLookPass]

What else does he do besides score? Rebound? No. Assists? No. The guy plays most games like he is not interested.

Defense is half of the game and he plays it really well.  And with versatility.

If anyone watched Jeff Green play defense I don't see how they can say "oh he isn't interested".  Does no one watch defense?

I'm not saying he is one of your core players to build around.  But he isn't overpaid like people say for what he brings and he's a really nice complementary player.  An effecient player who scores 16 a night on average, spaces the floor, shoots threes well, is a good defender, has length, and every once in a while really goes off.

Nothing to be so negative about.

Agreed...I couldn't have said it better myself. Jeff Green is a nice piece to have, not just for the Celts, but for any team. Which is why I believe it when Mike Gorman is saying there seems to be plenty of interest around the league in Green recently. He can fit in well on any team, because he is an efficient scorer, a solid defender, and a versatile player, whom does not need to dominate the ball to be effective. He can score in a variety of ways--off the ball, in transition, off the dribble, and even off last second isos due to broken plays.

Green is certainly not a #1 option on a team with championship aspirations, but he would make a great 3rd option on any team. He takes a lot of flak for a player who has been an efficient leading scorer for the C's all season long. Green is also very capable of guarding opposing teams' best wing players on a nightly basis, which is clearly an underrated part of his game. His versatility also should not go unnoticed, although I like him better as a SG/SF swingman, than a SF/PF combo. I think his strength/size/defensive advantage at SG is far more valuable, than his quickness advantage at PF.

But anyways, Ainge did not sign Green to be a #1 option on offense, and he is not paid like one either, which many people tend to forget. He is really only the leading scorer on this team because Ainge traded away our top 2 scorers from last yr (PP & KG) for inferior players & draft picks, rather than equivalent scorers. (A trade that I am more than fine with, for the record...Even though it was hard to handle at first).

And even as the Celts' De Facto leading scorer this season, Green hasn't exactly been the designated #1 option on offense. Bradley has actually lead the team in shot attempts, rather than Green. Leading your team in scoring, but not shot attempts, is the sign of an efficient leading scorer. That is a very good trait to have, as most wing players who lead their teams in scoring, also lead their teams in shot attempts.

[BballTim]

Well for what it's worth, that seemed to be my take-away last season.  Rondo and Green don't mix.  Green needs the ball to be effective.  He needs to drive inside  and do his thing.  In the Rondo-centric offense, Green basically just stood around.  Part of the reason we played better last season without Rondo was because Green stepped up in Rondo's absence.  It's not in the least bit surprising to me that Green's best games lately have come with Rondo sitting.

And btw... what's the grace period on Rondo's return?  So far he's been crap.  Do we not get to fairly judge him as a "star" until next season?  Because as of right now,  his trade value is plummeting.

So why didn't Green step up this year in Rondo's absence? He has been the same old a Uncle Snooze Button.

  If you look at Green's numbers last year you'll see that they were terrible early in the year and improved as the year went on. That's what happens when you come back from a year off and from heart surgery. You can't tie the improvement to his play to Rondo's injury because he started playing better well before Rondo left the lineup.

  You can see a spike in his minutes after Rondo's injury, but that's more likely than not due to Sully being out of the lineup than anything related to Rondo. Also, there's no real evidence that Green's a more effective player (or even as effective) with the ball in his hands unless it's in transition. You clearly can't run an offense through him.

[Galeto]

It's not that he's not interested, he's just not a good basketball player unless he gets hot, which is every few games. Then once in a while he goes supernova and gives you a night like the other night... He is inconsistent because he isn't fine tuned enough.

I think his stats tell perfectly what he is... A mediocre scorer on a bad team.

he's not a bad basketball player...bad basketball players dont average 15-16ppg but he's not close to an allstar who can put up 20ppg that fans want to view him as

But players aren't just judged on whether they average 15 pts or above.  When that player scores 15 pts on below-average efficiency while being a below-average rebounder for his position, rarely creating anything for his teammates and being at best an average overall defender, that comes out to a minus player.  Nevermind his scoring average, the guesses from many before the season was that he'd average at least
6 rebounds and 4 assists or more. 

Green was not a solid player the season he got traded for OKC.  Despite averaging the second most minutes that year for the OKC and sharing the floor with Durant and Westbrook a lot, he still managed a negative Ortg-Drtg differential.  He was the only rotation player to be in the minus.  He also had a sub-1.0 WS/48.  That is a hard thing to do while getting a lot of minutes on a good team.  It was no surprise that the Thunder became much better after trading him away.