If rondo comes back as rondo, do we trade him?

[BballTim]

No Rondo trade unless it's for some sort of ransom. We already have plenty of picks coming. He's 28, which leaves him about 6-7 more years as an effective PG. Think Stockton longevity. He can be a glue guy for this organization as it reforms itself into a new type of contender.

Stockon was able to stay in the league for so long because of his shooting. I don't think Rondo will ever be able to rely on that, however I actually think the Jason Kidd comp is more accurate, so Rondo's effective playing career could be as long as 10+ years.

  Stockton was able to stay in the league for so long because of his passing, playmaking and how well he ran an offense. He was only scoring 10-12 points a game when he was older, he wasn't going to beat too many teams with his scoring. Same with Nash, btw. Neither of them scored much when they were older but they were still elite playmakers/passers.

[LooseCannon]

Tome the whole "trade Rondo" debate comes down to:

1. How much you like or dislike Rondo
2. How much you value Rondo
3. How soon you think the Celtics will wait in the rebuild

I'd add:

4. How likely the Celtics are to land a star through free agency if they have the cap space and one is available

A common talking point of people who want to trade Rondo seems to be a belief that major free agents won't come to Boston, so the team needs to draft the next star or have a high pick to use in a trade for that next star and Rondo is an impediment to that path.

[BballTim]

Tome the whole "trade Rondo" debate comes down to:

1. How much you like or dislike Rondo
2. How much you value Rondo
3. How soon you think the Celtics will wait in the rebuild

I'd add:

4. How likely the Celtics are to land a star through free agency if they have the cap space and one is available

A common talking point of people who want to trade Rondo seems to be a belief that major free agents won't come to Boston, so the team needs to draft the next star or have a high pick to use in a trade for that next star and Rondo is an impediment to that path.

  You can always trade future firsts for players. Trade away a star player like Rondo and that just means you need to acquire 1 more star player in your rebuild, which makes the task all that much harder.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

You can't take the trades together because they weren't made together.  Ainge had no idea what if anything of value he would have been able to get for Crawford when he gave up a draft pick to unload Lee.

If Ainge has no idea of the trade value of his players, then he shouldn't be a GM.

Pretty much.

Exactly. You really think no conversations were had about Crawford with other teams prior to the lee trade? NBA GM's are just flying by the seat of their pants?
If you honestly believe there had never been a phone call made about Crawford prior to Lee, that Ainge had zero sense of his value, that entry move is made in a vacuum and that all moves are unrelated, well, I got a bridge to sell you.

[Celtics4ever]

If Rondo is the old Rondo, I would keep him.  Tommy has raved how his shot has improved.

[Moranis]

You can't take the trades together because they weren't made together.  Ainge had no idea what if anything of value he would have been able to get for Crawford when he gave up a draft pick to unload Lee.

If Ainge has no idea of the trade value of his players, then he shouldn't be a GM.

Pretty much.

Exactly. You really think no conversations were had about Crawford with other teams prior to the lee trade? NBA GM's are just flying by the seat of their pants?
If you honestly believe there had never been a phone call made about Crawford prior to Lee, that Ainge had zero sense of his value, that entry move is made in a vacuum and that all moves are unrelated, well, I got a bridge to sell you.

Well it is apparent that it had to be a 3 team trade (I mean the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas than Crawford and Brooks) and then all he could get was a conditional first round pick that will likely be two seconds and a second rounder and had to take on 4 million in salary next year.  Some value Crawford has.

[BballTim]

You can't take the trades together because they weren't made together.  Ainge had no idea what if anything of value he would have been able to get for Crawford when he gave up a draft pick to unload Lee.

If Ainge has no idea of the trade value of his players, then he shouldn't be a GM.

Pretty much.

Exactly. You really think no conversations were had about Crawford with other teams prior to the lee trade? NBA GM's are just flying by the seat of their pants?
If you honestly believe there had never been a phone call made about Crawford prior to Lee, that Ainge had zero sense of his value, that entry move is made in a vacuum and that all moves are unrelated, well, I got a bridge to sell you.

Well it is apparent that it had to be a 3 team trade (I mean the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas than Crawford and Brooks) and then all he could get was a conditional first round pick that will likely be two seconds and a second rounder and had to take on 4 million in salary next year.  Some value Crawford has.

  He probably didn't have any better offers for Crawford and, according to whoever was analyzing the deal during the last game, they wanted to get rid of him before they benched him for Rondo. But he probably had to unload Lee's future money to take on Anthony's. It's true the deals were separate but you don't know whether or not Danny was discussing the Crawford deal before he made the Lee deal.

  In any case, between the two deals, Danny saved $7M in salary over the next few years, gained either a 1st or two 2nds and got  rid of a potential headache in Crawford. None of that points to Danny deciding that he's not going to try to add to his current core.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

You can't take the trades together because they weren't made together.  Ainge had no idea what if anything of value he would have been able to get for Crawford when he gave up a draft pick to unload Lee.

If Ainge has no idea of the trade value of his players, then he shouldn't be a GM.

Pretty much.

Exactly. You really think no conversations were had about Crawford with other teams prior to the lee trade? NBA GM's are just flying by the seat of their pants?
If you honestly believe there had never been a phone call made about Crawford prior to Lee, that Ainge had zero sense of his value, that entry move is made in a vacuum and that all moves are unrelated, well, I got a bridge to sell you.

Well it is apparent that it had to be a 3 team trade (I mean the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas than Crawford and Brooks) and then all he could get was a conditional first round pick that will likely be two seconds and a second rounder and had to take on 4 million in salary next year.  Some value Crawford has.

  He probably didn't have any better offers for Crawford and, according to whoever was analyzing the deal during the last game, they wanted to get rid of him before they benched him for Rondo. But he probably had to unload Lee's future money to take on Anthony's. It's true the deals were separate but you don't know whether or not Danny was discussing the Crawford deal before he made the Lee deal.

  In any case, between the two deals, Danny saved $7M in salary over the next few years, gained either a 1st or two 2nds and got  rid of a potential headache in Crawford. None of that points to Danny deciding that he's not going to try to add to his current core.

Well said. What I should have said, just more civil and less aghast. the inanity sometimes...
 
Reddick wasn't worth a first, no one is teaching firsts these days, unless it is for a big time player (or your trading with the knicks). The Celtics gave up an injured barbosa and Collins for Crawford who is now two our three draft picks. That's pretty good.

And the point is you originally said ainge must have had no idea what he could potentially get for Crawford which I'm glad to see you've backed of from cause that is crazy talk.

[tyrone biggums]

The problem with Rondo is that he is a star player. Celtics fans now a days hate star players. They want homegrown blue collar players who will over achieve and grind it out hard for 40 minutes a night. The problem is that in the NBA you need stars to compliment those grind it out players. Rondo has gotten the reputation of being a diva, fair or not. Since then he seems to have matured but C's fans still hold his first two years in the league against him. People blame him for Ray Allen leaving (even though Ainge did trade him to Memphis for 10 minutes) when in reality Ainge was trying to trade Ray.

I wouldn't trade Rondo straight up for a top pick in this draft. It doesn't make sense. If the number #1 overall pick has a Rondo type impact then that would hardly be a bust. If that is the case then why gamble on trading him unless Ainge knows he's signing elsewhere.
 
Build around stars don't trade them.

[pokeKingCurtis]

The problem with Rondo is that he is a star player. Celtics fans now a days hate star players. They want homegrown blue collar players who will over achieve and grind it out hard for 40 minutes a night. The problem is that in the NBA you need stars to compliment those grind it out players. Rondo has gotten the reputation of being a diva, fair or not. Since then he seems to have matured but C's fans still hold his first two years in the league against him. People blame him for Ray Allen leaving (even though Ainge did trade him to Memphis for 10 minutes) when in reality Ainge was trying to trade Ray.

I wouldn't trade Rondo straight up for a top pick in this draft. It doesn't make sense. If the number #1 overall pick has a Rondo type impact then that would hardly be a bust. If that is the case then why gamble on trading him unless Ainge knows he's signing elsewhere.
 
Build around stars don't trade them.

Homegrown

Overachieving

Grind

...sounds like Rondo lol

[Moranis]

You can't take the trades together because they weren't made together.  Ainge had no idea what if anything of value he would have been able to get for Crawford when he gave up a draft pick to unload Lee.

If Ainge has no idea of the trade value of his players, then he shouldn't be a GM.

Pretty much.

Exactly. You really think no conversations were had about Crawford with other teams prior to the lee trade? NBA GM's are just flying by the seat of their pants?
If you honestly believe there had never been a phone call made about Crawford prior to Lee, that Ainge had zero sense of his value, that entry move is made in a vacuum and that all moves are unrelated, well, I got a bridge to sell you.

Well it is apparent that it had to be a 3 team trade (I mean the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas than Crawford and Brooks) and then all he could get was a conditional first round pick that will likely be two seconds and a second rounder and had to take on 4 million in salary next year.  Some value Crawford has.

  He probably didn't have any better offers for Crawford and, according to whoever was analyzing the deal during the last game, they wanted to get rid of him before they benched him for Rondo. But he probably had to unload Lee's future money to take on Anthony's. It's true the deals were separate but you don't know whether or not Danny was discussing the Crawford deal before he made the Lee deal.

  In any case, between the two deals, Danny saved $7M in salary over the next few years, gained either a 1st or two 2nds and got  rid of a potential headache in Crawford. None of that points to Danny deciding that he's not going to try to add to his current core.

Well said. What I should have said, just more civil and less aghast. the inanity sometimes...
 
Reddick wasn't worth a first, no one is teaching firsts these days, unless it is for a big time player (or your trading with the knicks). The Celtics gave up an injured barbosa and Collins for Crawford who is now two our three draft picks. That's pretty good.

And the point is you originally said ainge must have had no idea what he could potentially get for Crawford which I'm glad to see you've backed of from cause that is crazy talk.

What I'm saying is Crawford and Brooks combined have the value of Toney Douglas (afterall that is all Golden State gave up for them).  Ainge was able to get some 2nd's because he took on the salary of Joel Anthony who Miami was looking to unload to free up some space next summer.  Crawford and Brooks thus had no value at all.  Ainge gave up a 2nd to move Lee.  If Ainge thought there was any semblance of a core in place he doesn't take on the salary of Anthony for a couple 2nd round picks.  He just keeps and lets Crawford and Brooks expire and get that extra space next summer (now without other significant moves Boston has 8-10 million in space rather than 12-14 million).  Ainge knows he is at least 2 years away, which is why he took on Anthony for some second round picks.  And since he knows he is at least 2 years away (without major trades) it means he doesn't think there is a core worth building around (or at least not enough of one).  I firmly believe Ainge loves Rondo and Sullinger, but that doesn't mean he won't trade them as they are the best player assets on the team and are by a wide margin.  No one will give up anything of value for anyone else on the roster.  Green is vastly over paid.  Bradley is an incredibly flawed player that is expiring.  Olynyk is a dime a dozen big man.  And no one else is even worth mentioning.  This team is a very long way away from competing and you just don't say that if there is a core in place.  There just is not.

[chambers]

Tome the whole "trade Rondo" debate comes down to:

1. How much you like or dislike Rondo
2. How much you value Rondo
3. How soon you think the Celtics will wait in the rebuild

I'd add:

4. How likely the Celtics are to land a star through free agency if they have the cap space and one is available

A common talking point of people who want to trade Rondo seems to be a belief that major free agents won't come to Boston, so the team needs to draft the next star or have a high pick to use in a trade for that next star and Rondo is an impediment to that path.

  You can always trade future firsts for players. Trade away a star player like Rondo and that just means you need to acquire 1 more star player in your rebuild, which makes the task all that much harder.

But if your plan is to re-build through the draft, and trading Rondo strengthens your opportunity to succeed using the draft model, then keeping Rondo makes the rebuild harder and gives us less chance at success.

If Rondo could land us a top 5 pick from another team, to go with our own top 5 pick- and Danny's decided that the draft is the path he'll take, then trading Rondo makes sense right? Particularly in a loaded draft such as this years and the 2015 draft.

[LooseCannon]

Well it is apparent that it had to be a 3 team trade (I mean the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas than Crawford and Brooks) and then all he could get was a conditional first round pick that will likely be two seconds and a second rounder and had to take on 4 million in salary next year.  Some value Crawford has.

The Heat have a full roster, so they wouldn't want to send out one player and get back two, since they would have to cut.  (They need a roster spot for all incoming players, even if they plan on immediately cutting any of them.)

Additionally, they got some luxury tax relief, so it would be more correct to say that the Heat would rather have Toney Douglas and luxury tax relief rather than Crawford, Brooks, and having to waive someone else (even if they plan on waiving Brooks and bringing back that other player after he passes waivers).

It's hard to get more than a second round pick for a mid-season rental (the Pacers got Leandro Barbosa for a second and cash in 2012 as an example of typical value), so getting more plus being able to dump MarShon Brooks at the price of Joel Anthony's contract is decent value.

[hwangjini_1]

i am not convinced that trading rondo is a good idea, or a bad one. i do think ainge will only trade rondo if he gets equal value back or more.

one scenario i have not seen discussed so far is that ainge keeps rondo through the season. then, just prior to the draft IF the celtics are sitting at the #4-6 draft spots and ainge believes that exum or smart will be as good (or nearly as good) as rondo, then rondo gets traded.

maybe rondo can be central in a trade to bring back someone such as larry sanders.

this way the celtics get their rim defender (albeit one with baggage) and still have an elite pg.

just a thought on a friday afternoon during lunch...chomp.

[Kane3387]

i am not convinced that trading rondo is a good idea, or a bad one. i do think ainge will only trade rondo if he gets equal value back or more.

one scenario i have not seen discussed so far is that ainge keeps rondo through the season. then, just prior to the draft IF the celtics are sitting at the #4-6 draft spots and ainge believes that exum or smart will be as good (or nearly as good) as rondo, then rondo gets traded.

maybe rondo can be central in a trade to bring back someone such as larry sanders.

this way the celtics get their rim defender (albeit one with baggage) and still have an elite pg.

just a thought on a friday afternoon during lunch...chomp.

Outside of the kings I don't see a team with the assets and need to make a worthwhile trade work.