Bird rights question...

[thebolt90]

So I was just digging in some NBA team salaries today (nerdy me) and had a question about bird rights. To my understand, the short of the bird rights is that if you play with a team for three years, that team can sign you back up using bird rights so they can go over the cap. So my question is, how does a player like Lebron get signed using bird rights in Miami?

I first saw that here...http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/MIA.html. Then I did a whole bunch of reading about bird rights and can't find anything that says that bird rights transfer through free agency. The short of it, why were the Heat able to sign Lebron using bird rights? The way I'm reading it, only Cleveland would have been eligible to do so, as he was 'there' free agent after the three years (and more) of play. Where is my mistake in logic?

[JSD]

Cleveland was left with an ultimatum:

1. Let Lebron leave with nothing
2. Sign and trade LeBron and at least get a draft pick and a trade exemption.

[indeedproceed]

Yeah Miami got LeBron through a sign and trade, as in technically, Cleveland signed him (using Bird rights), and then immediately traded him.

With the new CBA this is much less likely to happen, now, if a team has the cap room, there is virtually no difference between a sign and trade and outright just leaving.

[JSD]

So I was just digging in some NBA team salaries today (nerdy me) and had a question about bird rights.

By the way, that's normal around here. You might actual be a cool kid. The nerds are breaking out all sorts of funky stats.

[lightspeed5]

lebron was never a free agent. he was traded to the heat in exchange for like 6 draft picks, so cleveland signed him using their bird rights.

[thebolt90]

So I was just digging in some NBA team salaries today (nerdy me) and had a question about bird rights.

By the way, that's normal around here. You might actual be a cool kid. The nerds are breaking out all sorts of funky stats.

Haha well thanks. I'm just kind of learning the NBA salary stuff, which seems to be infinitely more complicated than the NFL side of things.

[thebolt90]

Yeah Miami got LeBron through a sign and trade, as in technically, Cleveland signed him (using Bird rights), and then immediately traded him.

With the new CBA this is much less likely to happen, now, if a team has the cap room, there is virtually no difference between a sign and trade and outright just leaving.

Thanks! I had forgotten he was a sign and trade. Feels like a lifetime ago.

So what you're saying is that NOW...a sign and trade would not transfer bird rights over to the new team, thus in today's NBA that Miami and Cleveland trade wouldn't fly without the salary of Lebron counting against the Heat cap?

[indeedproceed]

Yeah Miami got LeBron through a sign and trade, as in technically, Cleveland signed him (using Bird rights), and then immediately traded him.

With the new CBA this is much less likely to happen, now, if a team has the cap room, there is virtually no difference between a sign and trade and outright just leaving.

Thanks! I had forgotten he was a sign and trade. Feels like a lifetime ago.

So what you're saying is that NOW...a sign and trade would not transfer bird rights over to the new team, thus in today's NBA that Miami and Cleveland trade wouldn't fly without the salary of Lebron counting against the Heat cap?

No, not quite. Bird rights are gained by having the same player under the same contract for. 3 years or more (this is not a strict definition, and it ignores Early Bird rights). When CLE signed Bron to the 5 year contract (4+1 player option) they 'reset' the bird clock to 0. They then traded that contract to the Heat using a sign and trade, and after 3 years Lebron gets his full bird rights back for the next go-round of FA.

So CLE never actually transferred bird rights. They used the bird rights to sign Lebron to a certain contract (4+1, normal contracts can only go for 4 years, bird rights contracts go for 5), and then traded him.

Now, sign and trades can only be for 4 years no matter what (teams can still sign players to 5 yr contracts using bird rights if they keep them), so the thing that happened with Lebron is much less likely, unless you're talking about the team acquiring the player being over the salary cap. Then, since they don't have cap room, they HAVE to sign and trade to get the guy they want, since they can't sign him outright.

www.cbafaq.com is the site I use for all this stuff. It has all the answers , and in better language than the actual CBA.

[D.o.s.]

lebron was never a free agent. he was traded to the heat in exchange for like 6 draft picks, so cleveland signed him using their bird rights.

From Fear The Sword:

MIAMI GETS:

    LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

CLEVELAND GETS:

    Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
    2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
    Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
    Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
    A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2010/7/10/1562489/cavaliers-complete-sign-and-trade

[indeedproceed]

lebron was never a free agent. he was traded to the heat in exchange for like 6 draft picks, so cleveland signed him using their bird rights.

From Fear The Sword:

MIAMI GETS:

    LeBron James, who signs a 6-year, $110 million contract

CLEVELAND GETS:

    Two first-round picks, that must be used starting in 2013 and ending by 2017
    2012 second-round pick Miami received from New Orleans
    Future second-round pick Heat acquired from Oklahoma City
    Cleveland can also swap first round picks with the Heat in 2012
    A large trade exception($15 million or so) that the Cavs must use in trades for one calendar year.

http://www.fearthesword.com/2010/7/10/1562489/cavaliers-complete-sign-and-trade

Darn, a 6 year contract. You guys 'member the olden days?

[thebolt90]

No, not quite. Bird rights are gained by having the same player under the same contract for. 3 years or more (this is not a strict definition, and it ignores Early Bird rights). When CLE signed Bron to the 5 year contract (4+1 player option) they 'reset' the bird clock to 0. They then traded that contract to the Heat using a sign and trade, and after 3 years Lebron gets his full bird rights back for the next go-round of FA.

So CLE never actually transferred bird rights. They used the bird rights to sign Lebron to a certain contract (4+1, normal contracts can only go for 4 years, bird rights contracts go for 5), and then traded him.

Now, sign and trades can only be for 4 years no matter what (teams can still sign players to 5 yr contracts using bird rights if they keep them), so the thing that happened with Lebron is much less likely, unless you're talking about the team acquiring the player being over the salary cap. Then, since they don't have cap room, they HAVE to sign and trade to get the guy they want, since they can't sign him outright.

www.cbafaq.com is the site I use for all this stuff. It has all the answers , and in better language than the actual CBA.

Ironically that's the site that I was looking at that confused me. Well didn't confuse me. Forgetting about the sign and trade confused me.

[Roy H.]

No, not quite. Bird rights are gained by having the same player under the same contract for. 3 years or more (this is not a strict definition, and it ignores Early Bird rights). When CLE signed Bron to the 5 year contract (4+1 player option) they 'reset' the bird clock to 0. They then traded that contract to the Heat using a sign and trade, and after 3 years Lebron gets his full bird rights back for the next go-round of FA.

This isn't quite true, either.

Bird rights don't have to be earned on the same contract, so long as the player doesn't change teams.  So, for instance, a guy can play one three consecutive one year contracts, and still earn Bird rights.  In fact, a player can play on a 10-day contract for Cleveland in 2011, a full year contract for Cleveland in 2012, and a full-year contract in Cleveland for 2013 and he will gain full Bird rights, so long as 1) he didn't sign with / get traded to / play for another team in the interim, and 2) he had a full-season contract his second and third years.

Bird rights transfer over with a sign-and-trade.  The one exception to all of the above is guys who are eligible for Bird rights (or early Bird rights) who are traded when playing on a one year contract.  In that instance, the Bird rights are terminated.  (To combat this, the potential free agent is given an automatic no-trade clause in these situations.)

[Moranis]

Yeah Miami got LeBron through a sign and trade, as in technically, Cleveland signed him (using Bird rights), and then immediately traded him.

With the new CBA this is much less likely to happen, now, if a team has the cap room, there is virtually no difference between a sign and trade and outright just leaving.

Thanks! I had forgotten he was a sign and trade. Feels like a lifetime ago.

So what you're saying is that NOW...a sign and trade would not transfer bird rights over to the new team, thus in today's NBA that Miami and Cleveland trade wouldn't fly without the salary of Lebron counting against the Heat cap?

No, not quite. Bird rights are gained by having the same player under the same contract for. 3 years or more (this is not a strict definition, and it ignores Early Bird rights). When CLE signed Bron to the 5 year contract (4+1 player option) they 'reset' the bird clock to 0. They then traded that contract to the Heat using a sign and trade, and after 3 years Lebron gets his full bird rights back for the next go-round of FA.

So CLE never actually transferred bird rights. They used the bird rights to sign Lebron to a certain contract (4+1, normal contracts can only go for 4 years, bird rights contracts go for 5), and then traded him.

Now, sign and trades can only be for 4 years no matter what (teams can still sign players to 5 yr contracts using bird rights if they keep them), so the thing that happened with Lebron is much less likely, unless you're talking about the team acquiring the player being over the salary cap. Then, since they don't have cap room, they HAVE to sign and trade to get the guy they want, since they can't sign him outright.

www.cbafaq.com is the site I use for all this stuff. It has all the answers , and in better language than the actual CBA.

exactly, plus teams in the luxury tax cannot acquire players via sign and trade at all, so that takes out even more options.  So it is basically just teams that aren't under the cap enough or just over the cap, but not in luxury tax range where a sign and trade makes sense and since you can't increase the years or dollars by going that route there is even less incentive to get it done that way.