Who Says 'No': Bucks / Celtics

[BballTim]

You've just hit on the reason the Celts would probably say no. They want star players, they want to win.

They do? They traded KG and PP for picks. They traded C Lee for nothing. Anybody saying those deals were bad?

I agree they want stars. Whether they believe Rajon is the right star is subjective. You say - yes. Others aren't as sure, as you know.

  Danny says yes, that's for sure. And if you're offering the trading of KG and PP as evidence that the Celts don't want stars you haven't been following them all that closely the last year or so.

You think I'm calling Lee a star? It's evidence they DON'T care about winning -- they'll sacrifice wins to construct a team.


Lucky17 ~~ Neal is incidental. The point is Sanders wearing out his welcome, and hurting his own trade value.

As for that Bucks fan, newsflash: they're not getting assets for most of his list.

  I don't know what you're calling Lee. I didn't mention him in my comment. Danny might sacrifice wins to build a team, but he'll want to build a team by getting/having star players, not trading them away.

  Edit: Looking at the way PP (and especially KG) have been playing this year, they weren't going to make the team considerably better if we'd kept them.

[Lucky17]

You've just hit on the reason the Celts would probably say no. They want star players, they want to win.

They do? They traded KG and PP for picks. They traded C Lee for nothing. Anybody saying those deals were bad?

I agree they want stars. Whether they believe Rajon is the right star is subjective. You say - yes. Others aren't as sure, as you know.

  Danny says yes, that's for sure. And if you're offering the trading of KG and PP as evidence that the Celts don't want stars you haven't been following them all that closely the last year or so.

You think I'm calling Lee a star? It's evidence they DON'T care about winning -- they'll sacrifice wins to construct a team.


Lucky17 ~~ Neal is incidental. The point is Sanders wearing out his welcome, and hurting his own trade value.

As for that Bucks fan, newsflash: they're not getting assets for most of his list.

I don't think Sanders has worn out his welcome yet. If he is to be moved, best to wait for his value to increase. Trading him right now smacks of desperation, and likely gets a less than optimal return.

I'll agree that the Bucks won't get much for many of those players. But it gives some insight as to what (at least in the mind of one fan) the Bucks core is.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Celtics.

If they are not getting an All Star caliber player back for Rondo, they will say "No thanks".

[moiso]

Actually, Kohl's main priority is getting a new arena.

Winning would probably help engender any needed public financing to do so, which would thereby keep the team in Milwaukee.

In the battle of Neal vs. Sanders, Neal loses. He'll be shipped out of town for whatever the Bucks can get. (Actually, maybe that's a win for Neal, too.)

Sanders is the Eastern conference analog to DeMarcus Cousins: young, talented, and a loose cannon. But it'd be a stunning turn of events to cut ties with Sanders so soon after signing him.

One Bucks fan's take on the RealGM boards, FWIW:

Bucks could deal almost everyone and get draft picks. Trade Gary Neal, OJ Mayo, Caron Butler, Ilyasova, Pachulia, Ridnour, and Brandon Knight. Could get quality picks for these players.

Players that the Bucks should hang onto for the future are Larry Sanders, John Henson, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nate Wolters, Miroslav Raduljica and Ekpe Udoh.

Cousins is talented, Sanders is just a young loose cannon.

[BleedGreen1989]

1. Danny is not trading an injured Rondo unless he is BLOWN away.

2. Who is Wallace preventing us from signing that we need to pay value to dump him?

[ssspence]

You've just hit on the reason the Celts would probably say no. They want star players, they want to win.

They do? They traded KG and PP for picks. They traded C Lee for nothing. Anybody saying those deals were bad?

I agree they want stars. Whether they believe Rajon is the right star is subjective. You say - yes. Others aren't as sure, as you know.

  Danny says yes, that's for sure. And if you're offering the trading of KG and PP as evidence that the Celts don't want stars you haven't been following them all that closely the last year or so.

You think I'm calling Lee a star? It's evidence they DON'T care about winning -- they'll sacrifice wins to construct a team.


Lucky17 ~~ Neal is incidental. The point is Sanders wearing out his welcome, and hurting his own trade value.

As for that Bucks fan, newsflash: they're not getting assets for most of his list.

I don't think Sanders has worn out his welcome yet. If he is to be moved, best to wait for his value to increase. Trading him right now smacks of desperation, and likely gets a less than optimal return.

I'll agree that the Bucks won't get much for many of those players. But it gives some insight as to what (at least in the mind of one fan) the Bucks core is.

One clueless fan.

Trading Sanders may look desperate, but they also have to consider the alternative -- that Sanders could get worse, on and off the court. He could become much tougher to deal, and they have a very very good young player of similar make-up in Henson.

Personally, I don't believe that in a vacuum -- that Sanders is a McGee 2.0, that he's a sinking ship.

I think Sanders, like a lot of young players, needs the right circumstances to succeed. Sanders needs to be in a structured organization (Indiana, Miami, Boston, San Antonio), not a lost one.

But it's still a risk.

[Lucky17]

Actually, Kohl's main priority is getting a new arena.

Winning would probably help engender any needed public financing to do so, which would thereby keep the team in Milwaukee.

In the battle of Neal vs. Sanders, Neal loses. He'll be shipped out of town for whatever the Bucks can get. (Actually, maybe that's a win for Neal, too.)

Sanders is the Eastern conference analog to DeMarcus Cousins: young, talented, and a loose cannon. But it'd be a stunning turn of events to cut ties with Sanders so soon after signing him.

One Bucks fan's take on the RealGM boards, FWIW:

Bucks could deal almost everyone and get draft picks. Trade Gary Neal, OJ Mayo, Caron Butler, Ilyasova, Pachulia, Ridnour, and Brandon Knight. Could get quality picks for these players.

Players that the Bucks should hang onto for the future are Larry Sanders, John Henson, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Nate Wolters, Miroslav Raduljica and Ekpe Udoh.

Cousins is talented, Sanders is just a young loose cannon.

Some very smart people would disagree with you.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/wrapping-sloan-2013-larry-sanders-stan-van-gundy-030519224--nba.html

[Lucky17]

Bucks are in a tough spot.

They aren't a free agent destination, so the expiring contracts of Butler, Ridnour, etc. probably aren't going to lead to a significant FA acquisition this coming offseason.

Hammond could leverage that cap space to acquire assets, like Utah did this past year. But that leads to a prolonged rebuilding process, one that the Bucks have been mired in for quite some time already.

I wonder if Milwaukee wouldn't be better off as a buyer towards the deadline. Maybe they could use expirings to move Ilyasova or Mayo, or consolidate some middling contracts like Neal and Udoh into a legit rotation player.

The Pachulia resigning was a big mistake. Delfino has been injured all year. The Mayo acquisition is also looking dubious now, with how his minutes have yo-yoed of late. The roster needs some turning over.

Probably the classic example of a small market team trying to get off the mediocrity treadmill.

[ssspence]

Interesting that per usual everyone is focused on Sanders, and no one has even mentioned Knight.

Anyone watched him play lately? He's been very good. And he's 22.

I think Milwaukee says 'no' -- too much value, especially having to take Wallace back. But i think it's interesting for myriad reasons for both parties.

[BballTim]

Interesting that per usual everyone is focused on Sanders, and no one has even mentioned Knight.

Anyone watched him play lately? He's been very good. And he's 22.

I think Milwaukee says 'no' -- too much value, especially having to take Wallace back. But i think it's interesting for myriad reasons for both parties.

  You'd have to wonder how much of his very good play is just putting up stats on a bad team. He's not the most efficient scorer but his usage rate is about PP's career average. His 1.7/1 ast/to ratio isn't really anything to write home about either. What's he been doing very well aside from scoring? I'll check him out sometime.

[dasani]

Knight is a dime a dozen point guard who cant even run a simple pnr well.I don't see DET being too sad they traded him for Brandon Jennnings. Nuff said. He is putting up stats on a bad team which is no different than J Crawford early this season, but at least the C's were winning. Sanders is already being shopped, so his value is lowered, and loose cannon as someone already mentioned. You don't dump Rondo just to get rid of Wallace's contract. Just no. Only traded for a legit star player or better package than that. BOS says no but I doubt MIL does anything right now until they see who they get in the draft and plan for their future. They are not desperate to make a splash trade, just rid toxic players atm. (Neal, Sanders)

[Lucky17]

Interesting that per usual everyone is focused on Sanders, and no one has even mentioned Knight.

Anyone watched him play lately? He's been very good. And he's 22.

I think Milwaukee says 'no' -- too much value, especially having to take Wallace back. But i think it's interesting for myriad reasons for both parties.

  You'd have to wonder how much of his very good play is just putting up stats on a bad team. He's not the most efficient scorer but his usage rate is about PP's career average. His 1.7/1 ast/to ratio isn't really anything to write home about either. What's he been doing very well aside from scoring? I'll check him out sometime.

Rebounding. A couple double-doubles this season, and near misses on a few triple doubles. Also averaging a steal a game.

He had a pretty nice month of December.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6448/brandon-knight

[BballTim]

Interesting that per usual everyone is focused on Sanders, and no one has even mentioned Knight.

Anyone watched him play lately? He's been very good. And he's 22.

I think Milwaukee says 'no' -- too much value, especially having to take Wallace back. But i think it's interesting for myriad reasons for both parties.

  You'd have to wonder how much of his very good play is just putting up stats on a bad team. He's not the most efficient scorer but his usage rate is about PP's career average. His 1.7/1 ast/to ratio isn't really anything to write home about either. What's he been doing very well aside from scoring? I'll check him out sometime.

Rebounding. A couple double-doubles this season, and near misses on a few triple doubles. Also averaging a steal a game.

He had a pretty nice month of December.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/6448/brandon-knight

  He's a little better than average rebounder, doesn't seem to be much of a passer, is an inefficient volume shooter and (according to all the stats I found) not much of a defender. Not saying he's a terrible player, but I don't know that he's worth getting excited about. I'll check him out sometime, but I've never been overly impressed with him.