Green and Perkins trade revisited

[D.o.s.]

My only regret is that Danny didn't manage to wheedle OKC out of Harden instead of Green like he was trying to do.

Yes.

Green trade was the right trade because we needed wing depth after Marquis went down--there was no way we could get away with Pierce playing even more minutes than he had been already. If Shaq/JO come back even 50% healthier, we're not missing Perk at all. I also think that Sheed's retirement kind of hurt us there, too.

Also, we were 41-14 when the trade happened. I don't think anyone expected us to fall apart as hard as we did.

[Kuberski33]

We'll never know whether Perk staying on that 2011 team might have led to a banner. We do know that having Green around sure hasn't -- at least not so far, and I can't imagine he'll be here when they next win one.

I think we know look at how many games he played that year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01.html

12+17 is 29 in case you need some help.

No help needed. You have no idea what would have happened if he's stayed. Neither do I. Neither does anyone. There's simply no way to predict what happens -- play, injuries, anything -- if what happened, didn't happen.

But as Doc liked to say, the Cs never lost a series where all 5 guys started each game. And Perk played every playoff game for OKC that year.

My guess...Doc realizing that his bench sucked, eases off and gets the C's in the playoffs as a 6 or 7 seed, then tries to make it through with a 6 man rotation.  Doesn't work.

[LooseCannon]

Imagine if there had been no threat of an extended lockout, so that Krstic stays in the NBA instead of chasing money overseas and Ainge feels the center position is locked down sufficiently that he doesn't feel the need to draft a seven-footer in the 2012 draft. 

What-if is a fun game.

[Celtics4ever]

No help needed. You have no idea what would have happened if he's stayed. Neither do I. Neither does anyone. There's simply no way to predict what happens -- play, injuries, anything -- if what happened, didn't happen.

He played 29 games that year.   I know spilt milk when I see it.

[LooseCannon]

My only regret is that Danny didn't manage to wheedle OKC out of Harden instead of Green like he was trying to do.

I think there was zero chance of that, so it's not worth regretting.

[CelticG1]

Without Lee finishing out this season we truly have no idea where we could have ended up.  You can't tell me we wouldn't have won a championship.  No one knows.

Yeah that's actually how i feel when people think we had a chance to a championship.

This isn't football you don't need to win 1 game to win the championship.

I think you have a better chance of complaining about us not signing Nenad Kristin in the 2011  season of robbing us of a championship than letting perk go.  I'd honestly rather complain about that.

Or not signing Tony Allen for 1 extra year at 3 mailin 2010. Certainly would have helped more than perk

[86MaxwellSmart]

All of this could have been avoided---if Danny had Drafted Marc Gasol, INSTEAD of Gabe Pruitt.

We might have had 1 or 2 more Rings---and The Lakers would have 2 less--cause no trade with Memphis for Pau.

[vjcsmoke]

All of this could have been avoided---if Danny had Drafted Marc Gasol, INSTEAD of Gabe Pruitt.

We might have had 1 or 2 more Rings---and The Lakers would have 2 less--cause no trade with Memphis for Pau.

We rarely draft foreign players though.  Just check our track record.  We passed on Tony Parker (France) and Marc Gasol (Spain).  In the last draft, we also passed on Giannis Adetokunbo (Greece), whom Ainge claimed was the next Scottie Pippen.  Instead we draft KO, a skilled player, but not nearly as athletic. 

Racism?  I wouldn't go that far.  But it's obvious we, as an organization, don't like to take chances on foreign basketball players.

[tenn_smoothie]

Does Perk's presences on the court butterfly effect away Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow?

That's the biggest factor in my answer.

The Celts keep Perk in 2011 and they probably maintain the #1 seeding in the East that they occupied when Danny screwed the team up by making this trade. thus, they don't play Miami in the second round and Rondo doesn't get hurt.

As for the 2nd poster who says "you haven't watched Perk play much recently" - you are yet another among the hundreds who just cannot get it thru your collective thick skulls that what Perkins did for the Garnett-era Celtics a) was not usually going to show up as big numbers in a box score and b) was invaluable to the defense and toughness that those teams thrived on. the team was never quite the same after that trade.

Perk's style was much more effective for the Celtics than for the Thunder - he was essentially a better player here because his skills matched up with the Celtics playing style and team persona. The Perk-Green trade was the football equivalent of sending a very fast, athletic wide receiver to a grind-it-out run between the tackles offense and then sending a huge straight ahead, road-grading offensive lineman to a finesse spread option offense. Neither player is going to excel in a system that doesn't utilize their strengths and abilities.

Danny once again tried to prove how clever he is and in the process threw away an excellent shot at # 18 that season. he convinced himself that we needed to be more like Miami and Chicago (small-ball finesse) instead of maintaining the defensive-minded, physically tough style of play that gave us the one advantage that no other team had over the Heat and Bulls.

finally, Jeff Green is a nice guy and a nice player who will never lead us to a title - he has athleticism in spades, but lacks mental and physical toughness. it just ain't in him.

[tyrone biggums]

My only regret is that Danny didn't manage to wheedle OKC out of Harden instead of Green like he was trying to do.

Yes.

Green trade was the right trade because we needed wing depth after Marquis went down--there was no way we could get away with Pierce playing even more minutes than he had been already. If Shaq/JO come back even 50% healthier, we're not missing Perk at all. I also think that Sheed's retirement kind of hurt us there, too.

Also, we were 41-14 when the trade happened. I don't think anyone expected us to fall apart as hard as we did.

Perk was coming off a major injury and looked like a shell of a player since. Even if the Celtics got Harden instead of Jeff Green people would still complain because the Celtics traded away banner 18...How would the Celtics have won that year? They played the majority of the year without Perk and when he came back he looked like crap plus there are people on this board who would have given him his current contract. Then again there's also people here to this day that believe the summer of KG and Allen coming set the franchise back and the right move was to trade Pierce and run with youth.  SMH

[Roy H.]

Does Perk's presences on the court butterfly effect away Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow?

That's the biggest factor in my answer.

My position has always been "yes".  With Perk finishing out the season, it's very, very unlikely that Wade and Rondo are on the exact same court at the exact same time as the injury that took place.

People can reasonably disagree on whether Perk would have elevated our championship chances, but I don't think it makes sense to cite a future freak injury as a reason why he wouldn't have made an impact.  That injury probably doesn't occur if we kept Perk, because the season would have played out differently and the dates, times, locations and outcomes of playoff games would have changed.

[thirstyboots18]

It just seems to me, even to today's team, Green's skill set does not fit in with the half-court perimeter style that the Celtics, regardless of their personnel, seem to end up with.  He would fit in more with a fast moving team.  Perhaps Rondo will make the difference in his game.

[BballTim]

Does Perk's presences on the court butterfly effect away Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow?

That's the biggest factor in my answer.

My position has always been "yes".  With Perk finishing out the season, it's very, very unlikely that Wade and Rondo are on the exact same court at the exact same time as the injury that took place.

People can reasonably disagree on whether Perk would have elevated our championship chances, but I don't think it makes sense to cite a future freak injury as a reason why he wouldn't have made an impact.  That injury probably doesn't occur if we kept Perk, because the season would have played out differently and the dates, times, locations and outcomes of playoff games would have changed.

  It's an interesting hypothetical. What happened to Rondo wasn't really a freak accident, it was a deliberate move by Wade. The same thing could have happened in another game.

[Kane3387]

Does Perk's presences on the court butterfly effect away Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow?

That's the biggest factor in my answer.

My position has always been "yes".  With Perk finishing out the season, it's very, very unlikely that Wade and Rondo are on the exact same court at the exact same time as the injury that took place.

People can reasonably disagree on whether Perk would have elevated our championship chances, but I don't think it makes sense to cite a future freak injury as a reason why he wouldn't have made an impact.  That injury probably doesn't occur if we kept Perk, because the season would have played out differently and the dates, times, locations and outcomes of playoff games would have changed.

  It's an interesting hypothetical. What happened to Rondo wasn't really a freak accident, it was a deliberate move by Wade. The same thing could have happened in another game.

Agreed. I still believe that was an intentional takedown. I can't say the severity of the injury was intentional obviously.

Miami hated us and wanted to beat us more then any of their other opponents that year. Were basically the reason they came together. Rondo had carved them up all year and wade deliberately tried to take him down.

[CelticG1]

Does Perk's presences on the court butterfly effect away Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow?

That's the biggest factor in my answer.

My position has always been "yes".  With Perk finishing out the season, it's very, very unlikely that Wade and Rondo are on the exact same court at the exact same time as the injury that took place.

People can reasonably disagree on whether Perk would have elevated our championship chances, but I don't think it makes sense to cite a future freak injury as a reason why he wouldn't have made an impact.  That injury probably doesn't occur if we kept Perk, because the season would have played out differently and the dates, times, locations and outcomes of playoff games would have changed.

  It's an interesting hypothetical. What happened to Rondo wasn't really a freak accident, it was a deliberate move by Wade. The same thing could have happened in another game.

Yeah I mean I would say it is a ridiculous hypothetical.

Maybe Rondo tears his ACL during the season if Perk stays.  Having Perk wouldhhave changed probably every single moment of Celtics basketball cfrom that point.  Maybe Perk gets reinjured anyway.

Maybe Rondo gets in a car accident driving to Perks house sometime.

People want to talk about a more realistic hypothetical like,  like Perk being injured in game 6 of the finals I'mall for being a Homer with that but this other hypotheticalis much worse than a stretch