Author Topic: Lakers are tanking  (Read 9958 times)

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Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2014, 04:11:35 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 04:16:42 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2014, 04:11:47 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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With Kobe out and Gasol overpaid, it would be wise to move Gasol for future flexibility. Call it tanking if you want, but I consider that an unfair term. The Lakers have been looking to move Gasol for a while but weren't able to and decided that keeping him with Kobe game them their best chance. Without Kobe, there isn't much point in committing to Gasol's contract with the luxury tax penalties.

Avoiding the luxury tax penalties seem to be the main motivator here, so I wouldn't focus on 'tanking' anymore than people would when the Marlins trade away all their talent for young guys to save a buck.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2014, 05:01:42 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Trading Gasol for Bynum would be a smart move, signing Kobe to that extension was a killer for them though.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2014, 05:22:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I agree with Who. I don't see a team tanking and I agree with others that Kobe will be back. Kobe knows his knees and the rest of his body has only so many years left and that all-time scoring title means everything to him, maybe as much as the MJ tying 6th title does. Kobe will return. His ego won't allow him to sit for the rest of the year.

I also agree with the Lakerfan here that Buss is a terrible owner and is running that team horribly. The D'Antoni decision was awful leading to Howard choosing Houston. If the old man was there, that would never have happened. Jackson would have been brought in and he would have made the Kobe/Howard conundrum work.

This Laker team might trade Gasol and they probably will bring in Melo but if they stick with D'Antoni, they go nowhere.

Also, for all the conspiracy theorists that state LA will definitely get a top 3 pick if they are in the lottery, remember, the man that once answered what teo teams would he want to have in the NBA finals if he had a choice with the Lakers vs the Lakers(David Stern) is gone in a month. Which means that your conspiracy theory of Stern fixing things to help the Lakers has lost its power.

And lastly, LB33, that trade to rent a malcontent PF for a few months by giving up 2 future 1st round picks is so awful as to be given the title of "Best trade idea to hurt the Celtics future ever!!"

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2014, 05:59:42 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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My tendency toward pessimism leads me to think things will always eventually benefit the Lakers.  Yes, I think they'll swing a deal of Pau to lower cap number and get closer to low lottery. Yes, I think they'll get a great pick in this draft.  Yes, I think they'll find FAs to come to sunny LA.   

A small voice of reason that is found less frequently in my head does tell me that Kobe will come back as soon as he is able and that he will try to carry the franchise on his shoulders -- leading to enough wins to keep the Lakers out of the top 5.  And this same diminutive voice of reason also tells me that LBJ will not leave Miami for the Lakers.

Why the 'no' on LBJ?  He has spent the last 3 seasons slowly and adeptly rebuilding a badly tarnished image -- which appears to matter to him. I believe Lebron now sits among the pantheon of all-time greats and his abandonment of Cleveland is starting to appear a memory.  I do not believe he will coordinate another abandonment to make the rich richer in LA. Pat Riley is too shrewd to allow it to happen and Jim Buss to daft to faclitate it. 

Lebron could completely erase any negative historical assessment of him if he decides to return to Cleveland.  That's my hope.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 05:36:54 PM by Neurotic Guy »

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2014, 06:12:23 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers.

But imagine if it was Sully and Bradley and not  Fab and JR.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2014, 06:49:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

  I think Danny has more faith in himself than that. Besides, in a draft chock full of franchise cornerstones, one of them is bound to slip through the cracks and still be there.

 

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2014, 07:05:17 PM »

Offline mgent

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With Kobe out and Gasol overpaid, it would be wise to move Gasol for future flexibility. Call it tanking if you want, but I consider that an unfair term. The Lakers have been looking to move Gasol for a while but weren't able to and decided that keeping him with Kobe game them their best chance. Without Kobe, there isn't much point in committing to Gasol's contract with the luxury tax penalties.

Avoiding the luxury tax penalties seem to be the main motivator here, so I wouldn't focus on 'tanking' anymore than people would when the Marlins trade away all their talent for young guys to save a buck.
Yes, these are two completely distinct things.  Tanking is intentionally losing, not trading old guys.  They are not mutually exclusive, you can change the set up of your team while still trying to win at the same time.  People didn't understand this with Pierce/KG and apparently still don't.

Obviously a worse team/higher draft pick might factor into the trade, but that doesn't eliminate the unmistakable line between tanking and making moves for the future.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2014, 07:25:03 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Yeah, i have a sneaking suspicion the c's will claw their way to being a "playoff team" (as if that is some objective level of success rather than just being an indicator of a relatively putrid conference), earn a first round sweep, while we laugh at the sucky lakers who then win the lotto, get love and another star, and win the title way before we are contenders again because we are stuck picking in the high teens as a bad 35 win "playoff" team. But at least we'll have that first round exit to remember.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2014, 07:35:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers.

But imagine if it was Sully and Bradley and not  Fab and JR.
Sure...and that's why the scratch tickets have value.  Enough so that maybe the lakers would be willing to take a complete cap killer (Wallace) off our hands.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2014, 07:37:24 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers.

But imagine if it was Sully and Bradley and not  Fab and JR.
Sure...and that's why the scratch tickets have value.  Enough so that maybe the lakers would be willing to take a complete cap killer (Wallace) off our hands.
Jim Buss isn't he best owner ever but I am pretty sure he isn't an utter and complete idiot.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2014, 07:39:04 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I agree with Who. I don't see a team tanking and I agree with others that Kobe will be back. Kobe knows his knees and the rest of his body has only so many years left and that all-time scoring title means everything to him, maybe as much as the MJ tying 6th title does. Kobe will return. His ego won't allow him to sit for the rest of the year.

I also agree with the Lakerfan here that Buss is a terrible owner and is running that team horribly. The D'Antoni decision was awful leading to Howard choosing Houston. If the old man was there, that would never have happened. Jackson would have been brought in and he would have made the Kobe/Howard conundrum work.

This Laker team might trade Gasol and they probably will bring in Melo but if they stick with D'Antoni, they go nowhere.

Also, for all the conspiracy theorists that state LA will definitely get a top 3 pick if they are in the lottery, remember, the man that once answered what teo teams would he want to have in the NBA finals if he had a choice with the Lakers vs the Lakers(David Stern) is gone in a month. Which means that your conspiracy theory of Stern fixing things to help the Lakers has lost its power.

And lastly, LB33, that trade to rent a malcontent PF for a few months by giving up 2 future 1st round picks is so awful as to be given the title of "Best trade idea to hurt the Celtics future ever!!"
Trading two 1st round picks to "rent a malcontent PF for a few months" is indeed a horrible idea.

Using a couple late 1st rounders with limited potential in order to get Wallace off our cap and free up 20 million in cap space this summer... not so horrible of an idea.

Aint nothin free, gentlemen.   Pau would help you in the short term (he gets you into the playoffs in this garbage conference) and long term (you probably can make a bigger splash with 20 million in cap space than you could with two picks that will likely amount to garbage.)

As-is, we will have no cap space this summer.  So think about the big picture here.  Do you like our chances of adding impact players with the #16 and #20 pick?... or do you like our chances of adding impact players with 20 million in cap space?  Personally, I think you could do more with the 20 mil.  Moot point, though... cuz like I said, the Lakers would turn it down (Wallace) for the same reason we'd do it (Wallace).

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2014, 07:46:19 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers.

But imagine if it was Sully and Bradley and not  Fab and JR.
Sure...and that's why the scratch tickets have value.  Enough so that maybe the lakers would be willing to take a complete cap killer (Wallace) off our hands.
Jim Buss isn't he best owner ever but I am pretty sure he isn't an utter and complete idiot.
So you're kinda contradicting yourself here.  Lol.

On one hand, you're saying that Buss would be an utter and complete idiot to take Wallace off our hands + two late 2014 picks.    On the other hand, you're it would "the worst trade ever" for the Celtics to give up two late 2014 picks in order to get Wallace off our hands. 

Make up your mind.  It can't be "the worst trade ever" for both teams.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2014, 07:55:37 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I agree with Who. I don't see a team tanking and I agree with others that Kobe will be back. Kobe knows his knees and the rest of his body has only so many years left and that all-time scoring title means everything to him, maybe as much as the MJ tying 6th title does. Kobe will return. His ego won't allow him to sit for the rest of the year.

I also agree with the Lakerfan here that Buss is a terrible owner and is running that team horribly. The D'Antoni decision was awful leading to Howard choosing Houston. If the old man was there, that would never have happened. Jackson would have been brought in and he would have made the Kobe/Howard conundrum work.

This Laker team might trade Gasol and they probably will bring in Melo but if they stick with D'Antoni, they go nowhere.

Also, for all the conspiracy theorists that state LA will definitely get a top 3 pick if they are in the lottery, remember, the man that once answered what teo teams would he want to have in the NBA finals if he had a choice with the Lakers vs the Lakers(David Stern) is gone in a month. Which means that your conspiracy theory of Stern fixing things to help the Lakers has lost its power.

And lastly, LB33, that trade to rent a malcontent PF for a few months by giving up 2 future 1st round picks is so awful as to be given the title of "Best trade idea to hurt the Celtics future ever!!"
Trading two 1st round picks to "rent a malcontent PF for a few months" is indeed a horrible idea.

Using a couple late 1st rounders with limited potential in order to get Wallace off our cap and free up 20 million in cap space this summer... not so horrible of an idea.

Aint nothin free, gentlemen.   Pau would help you in the short term (he gets you into the playoffs in this garbage conference) and long term (you probably can make a bigger splash with 20 million in cap space than you could with two picks that will likely amount to garbage.)

As-is, we will have no cap space this summer.  So think about the big picture here.  Do you like our chances of adding impact players with the #16 and #20 pick?... or do you like our chances of adding impact players with 20 million in cap space?  Personally, I think you could do more with the 20 mil.  Moot point, though... cuz like I said, the Lakers would turn it down (Wallace) for the same reason we'd do it (Wallace).

I have no interest in Pau in the short-term and I don't think the cap space would be better than picks.  The picks are 16 and 20 in a worst case scenario.
At the end of January, the C's pick will likely be looking much more like a top 10 pick. It's also possible that the Hawks/Nets pick, with Horford and Lopez gone, may be lottery as well.  I wouldn't bet on two lottery picks, but the possibility of it makes these picks intriguing to trade partners.  Trading them both ostensibly for salary cap relief to open cap space to attract FAs to a mediocre young team in frigid Boston doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Keep the picks or make a better trade.

Re: Lakers are tanking
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2014, 08:59:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If they want to unload Gasol, I'd be happy to take him on the Celts.

I am getting sick and tired of seeing us blow large leads in games.
Would you trade Wallace + Humph + our two 2014 1st rounders (currently projected #15 and #20) for Gasol?

  He might, but it would be quite a surprise if Danny would.

Lol! Exactly!
Think about it a little more.  Let's assume the #15 and #20 picks amount to Fab Melo and JR Giddens. 

Wallace (3 years 10 mil)
Humph (12 mil expiring)

for

Pau (22 mil expiring)

That's kind of a heist for Boston.  Turns them into a competent playoff team this year.  Drops Wallace off the books.  We'd have 20 million in cap space this offseason in which players like Melo and LeBron may be looking for new homes.

Is it worth sacrificing a couple scratch tickets?

Btw, Lakers wouldn't do it for the same reason we WOULD do it.  Gerald Wallace is on the books until 2016.  A couple "bleh" draft picks (15-25 range) isn't worth sacrificing their cap space.  If they let Pau expire, they'll have enough to bring in LeBron this summer.  They also have a ton of cap space lined up for 2015 where Kevin Love is surely going to fulfill his destiny and come home to his beloved Lakers.

But imagine if it was Sully and Bradley and not  Fab and JR.
Sure...and that's why the scratch tickets have value.  Enough so that maybe the lakers would be willing to take a complete cap killer (Wallace) off our hands.
Jim Buss isn't he best owner ever but I am pretty sure he isn't an utter and complete idiot.
So you're kinda contradicting yourself here.  Lol.

On one hand, you're saying that Buss would be an utter and complete idiot to take Wallace off our hands + two late 2014 picks.    On the other hand, you're it would "the worst trade ever" for the Celtics to give up two late 2014 picks in order to get Wallace off our hands. 

Make up your mind.  It can't be "the worst trade ever" for both teams.
Actually yes, it can be the worst trade ever for both teams and yes Buss would be an idoot to take the trade while it would be the worst trade ever for Boston.

Two things can contradict each other in a person's mind and still be true.

Buss has allowed Kupchak to have a strategy of clearing cap space for the ability to sign a top of the talent pool free agent either last year, this year, next year or the year after. The strategy for LA has been pretty clear and that is to sign Kobe and try to get him his another ring and to do it by adding one of the best players in the league to Kobe. They almost did it with Howard. Since that did not work out it is probably in the plans to do it in the near future with Lebron, Melo, Love or another top 10 player. Or more than one.

Taking on a large contract like Wallace at the cost of two 1st round picks flies in the face of this strategy and makes zero sense after carefully cultivating this for years and already proceeding forward with it by giving Kobe a $40+ million contract for the next two years.

It would be the worst trade ever for the Celtics for much the same reasoning. Danny Ainge's strategy is to build through the draft, adding young assets and then possibly maneuvering those assets for ready to contend assets is they aren't ready to contend in a time situation he is happy with.

To take two of those assets and trade them away for simply dumping a $10 million per year contract is foolish especially if it means only getting a possibly over the hill, malcontent PF that will be gone in 4 months and who's addition make make another of his assets less valuable. The smart play is to wait a year of two and see if he can unload Wallace for a lot less or simply let his contract expire sometime in the future while keeping, quite possibly, the most important assets he currently has, 1st round draft picks in the future that could turn into top 2-3 picks.

So you see. It can be both things even though you see them as contradictory. Until one can prove beyond a doubt that two things are contradictory in an objective review, then in a subjective opinionated look at things, they can still both exist.