Danny Ainge: "Making the playoffs is not a goal" (12/13)

[BballTim]

We are going to be massive sellers at the deadline. I'd be shocked if Bass remained on the team. I also wouldnt be shocked to see Lee traded possibly with Wallace. (Once Rondo gets back Lee is expendable, as Crawford will probably move over to the 2)

Wouldn't surprise mein the least if absolutely nothing happens at the trade deadline this year and Danny is just content with letting his expiring contracts expire and going on from there in the summer.

Given these statements I think something is much more likely to occur. We are currently on path to end up '5 or 6 or 7 wins below 500' which is what he doesn't want.
Rondo's looking like he could be out for a fair while longer, so something has to give. Danny states the obvious: No man's land is exactly that.

Crawford, Avery, Bass, Lee, Wallace, Hump- they'll all be on the block and if Danny is worried that we can't find a trade for another star then the only way we get closer to a championship is dumping these guys to go after that draft pick asset while our young guys 'develop'.

  Most of those guys are on the block anyways, possibly other than Bradley. If Danny's plan is to find another star it's pretty unlikely that he'll throw in the towel on the idea if it doesn't happen before this trade deadline.

Then how do we avoid the 6 or 7 wins below 500 scenario aka no mans land?
(no, 2012 playoff Rondo is not walking through that door for at least 3 months).
Easy to say those guys are on the block- but from these statements I'd say Danny didn't expect to be fourth in the East and on top of the Atlantic- he's pointed out what our record is- fools gold.
What's the solution to avoid the 36 win season and a pick at number 16-20?

  Obviously there's no guarantee we'll finish 6-7 games below .500. Not that it matters, but if we hadn't been in the Bradley/pg experiment for our first 2 games, we'd suddenly be on a 43 win pace. Does that somehow change our outlook or circumstances? Maybe the solution to avoid the 36 win season is to simply keep playing like we have been (7 wins in our last 11 games) and adding Rondo.

  But, again, that doesn't change our roster or our circumstances. The same roster with the same players (including Rondo) could win 6-8 or more games than you're expecting without greatly changing how well they play. If  the quote read the way you're claiming then this same team playing at about the same level being in the playoffs would go from "not a great thing" to something Danny's thrilled with. Sounds fairly unlikely that his view of the team would swing so wildly over a few wins over the course of the season.

  In answer to your question, though, we may end up with the 15th or 16th pick in the draft. It's not what people hoped for but it's not the end of the world. "No man's land" isn't like quicksand where any team that enters it stays that way for many years to come. It's also not true that being bad guarantees a star or being mediocre guarantees that you won't get one.

[chambers]

Chambers, where exactly are you getting that Danny said that the situation we are currently in is not a situation Danny wants. His quote was that he didn't want to back into the playoffs because the playoffs were not the goal.

That does not mean he would be unhappy making the playoffs or that he does not want to make the playoffs. It simply means that when goals were set for this season, like reducing salary to avoid the luxury tax, developing Sully into a starting caliber PF, attaining consistency out of Jeff Green, getting Rondo 100% healthy, developing the youth to become rotational worthy players, establishing a winning locker room environment, getting experience for Stevens, etc. thatmaking the playoffs were not one of those goals.

Just because one of the goals was not to make the playoffs does not mean that if the other goals are fulfilled and this team makes the playoffs because the other goals were reached, that Danny won't be thrilled to be in the playoffs. Assuming Danny does not want to make the playoffs is completely different than him not setting a goal to make the playoffs. They are just two different things.

I'm saying yeah he wanted all those things you mentioned
*Sully becoming a stud
*Green stepping up
*avoiding the tax

but the one thing he doesn't want is a situation where we make the playoffs with 5, 6 or 7 wins below .500 because of how terrible other teams are.

A .500 team is a 41 win team. Currently we are looking at a 36 win team. That's 5 wins below .500.
see below:

Danny Ainge:

If there’s a bunch of teams that are just injured and playing and you finish five, six, or seven games under .500 and you made the playoffs just because of that, that might not be such a great thing. I’m only concerned about how our players are playing, and if it so happens we make the playoffs and we earn our way and our guys are getting better, then I’m thrilled.

Are we really worthy of 4th in the East with our roster? Or are we there because the rest of the teams stink?

Our players are developing, but the injuries and tanking of the other teams in the NBA are why we are there.

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

I think he's setting us up to understand why (if he does) he'll trade away some guys that were keeping us on track for the playoffs. He'd rather trade those guys for some future value instead of limping into the playoffs at 36 wins.
Believe me if Avery and Jeff Green get traded there will be some unhappy fans. What if Rondo goes?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Chambers, where exactly are you getting that Danny said that the situation we are currently in is not a situation Danny wants. His quote was that he didn't want to back into the playoffs because the playoffs were not the goal.

That does not mean he would be unhappy making the playoffs or that he does not want to make the playoffs. It simply means that when goals were set for this season, like reducing salary to avoid the luxury tax, developing Sully into a starting caliber PF, attaining consistency out of Jeff Green, getting Rondo 100% healthy, developing the youth to become rotational worthy players, establishing a winning locker room environment, getting experience for Stevens, etc. thatmaking the playoffs were not one of those goals.

Just because one of the goals was not to make the playoffs does not mean that if the other goals are fulfilled and this team makes the playoffs because the other goals were reached, that Danny won't be thrilled to be in the playoffs. Assuming Danny does not want to make the playoffs is completely different than him not setting a goal to make the playoffs. They are just two different things.

I'm saying yeah he wanted all those things you mentioned
*Sully becoming a stud
*Green stepping up
*avoiding the tax

but the one thing he doesn't want is a situation where we make the playoffs with 5, 6 or 7 wins below .500 because of how terrible other teams are.

A .500 team is a 41 win team. Currently we are looking at a 36 win team. That's 5 wins below .500.
see below:

Danny Ainge:

If there’s a bunch of teams that are just injured and playing and you finish five, six, or seven games under .500 and you made the playoffs just because of that, that might not be such a great thing. I’m only concerned about how our players are playing, and if it so happens we make the playoffs and we earn our way and our guys are getting better, then I’m thrilled.

Are we really worthy of 4th in the East with our roster? Or are we there because the rest of the teams stink?

Our players are developing, but the injuries and tanking of the other teams in the NBA are why we are there.

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

I think he's setting us up to understand why (if he does) he'll trade away some guys that were keeping us on track for the playoffs. He'd rather trade those guys for some future value instead of limping into the playoffs at 36 wins.
Believe me if Avery and Jeff Green get traded there will be some unhappy fans. What if Rondo goes?

Thank God we've been healthy all year and our record is representative of our potential performance.

[TripleOT]

If Rondo is healthy and is available for 44 games, coming back for the first home game after the West Coast trip against Houston January 13th, the Cs probably make the playoffs.  The 8th seed in the East will need only 35 wins, the Cs have 11 already, with 57 to play.

If they go 5-8 without Rondo, they'd need only 19 wins in 44 games with Rondo, playing tanking teams half the time at the tail end of the season.  If Boston is going to tank, they need to go into a tailspin right now.  From what we've seen so far, they're not going to tank. 

At a minimum, Boston wins 38 games and gets the 7th seed, and gets knocked out in five games in the first round against either the Heat or Pacers.  Rondo is a winner, and he's going to do a great job leading these young guys. 

[BballTim]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

[chambers]

Chambers, where exactly are you getting that Danny said that the situation we are currently in is not a situation Danny wants. His quote was that he didn't want to back into the playoffs because the playoffs were not the goal.

That does not mean he would be unhappy making the playoffs or that he does not want to make the playoffs. It simply means that when goals were set for this season, like reducing salary to avoid the luxury tax, developing Sully into a starting caliber PF, attaining consistency out of Jeff Green, getting Rondo 100% healthy, developing the youth to become rotational worthy players, establishing a winning locker room environment, getting experience for Stevens, etc. thatmaking the playoffs were not one of those goals.

Just because one of the goals was not to make the playoffs does not mean that if the other goals are fulfilled and this team makes the playoffs because the other goals were reached, that Danny won't be thrilled to be in the playoffs. Assuming Danny does not want to make the playoffs is completely different than him not setting a goal to make the playoffs. They are just two different things.

I'm saying yeah he wanted all those things you mentioned
*Sully becoming a stud
*Green stepping up
*avoiding the tax

but the one thing he doesn't want is a situation where we make the playoffs with 5, 6 or 7 wins below .500 because of how terrible other teams are.

A .500 team is a 41 win team. Currently we are looking at a 36 win team. That's 5 wins below .500.
see below:

Danny Ainge:

If there’s a bunch of teams that are just injured and playing and you finish five, six, or seven games under .500 and you made the playoffs just because of that, that might not be such a great thing. I’m only concerned about how our players are playing, and if it so happens we make the playoffs and we earn our way and our guys are getting better, then I’m thrilled.

Are we really worthy of 4th in the East with our roster? Or are we there because the rest of the teams stink?

Our players are developing, but the injuries and tanking of the other teams in the NBA are why we are there.

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

I think he's setting us up to understand why (if he does) he'll trade away some guys that were keeping us on track for the playoffs. He'd rather trade those guys for some future value instead of limping into the playoffs at 36 wins.
Believe me if Avery and Jeff Green get traded there will be some unhappy fans. What if Rondo goes?

Thank God we've been healthy all year and our record is representative of our potential performance.

Against the Eastern stinkfest?
Yes our results haven't been influenced by any outside factors or the lack of talent/injuries on other teams. It's a true reflection on our potential- Of course this roster when 100% and other teams aren't tanking is definitely the 4th best squad in the East- how silly of me.

[chambers]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

[pokeKingCurtis]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

Edit:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor
First round draftee
First round draftee
First round draftee
First round draftee

[BballTim]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

  Yes, we'll probably let every player who's contract ends leave and not replace any of them. This will continue until we're below the league mandated number of players, after which we'll forfeit every game and end up with the top pick in the draft. Problem solved!

[PhoSita]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

  Yes, we'll probably let every player who's contract ends leave and not replace any of them. This will continue until we're below the league mandated number of players, after which we'll forfeit every game and end up with the top pick in the draft. Problem solved!

Well, that's probably not how it will go.

Still, this team is lacking the kind of major contributors who will make this team a true contender again.  It would be understandable to view a full season of rebuilding (watching a young, mismatched, developing, struggling team) that doesn't result in the kind of draft pick likely to yield such a player as a wasted opportunity.

[BballTim]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

  Yes, we'll probably let every player who's contract ends leave and not replace any of them. This will continue until we're below the league mandated number of players, after which we'll forfeit every game and end up with the top pick in the draft. Problem solved!

Well, that's probably not how it will go.

Still, this team is lacking the kind of major contributors who will make this team a true contender again.  It would be understandable to view a full season of rebuilding (watching a young, mismatched, developing, struggling team) that doesn't result in the kind of draft pick likely to yield such a player as a wasted opportunity.

  Sure, it's a lost opportunity, it's not the end of hope for years to come. Look, I get that people want a top pick in the draft. We're not contenders this year. Most people agree on that. It would be great to get a top pick in the draft in order to speed up the rebuild. Most people would agree with that as well. You put those two widely agreed upon statements together and come to the conclusion that the team should be as bad as possible.

  But the fact of the matter is that most nba teams don't follow that logic. The Celts may still end up with a bad record and a high draft pick. You just can't assume that's their plan or that they'll make a serious effort to accomplish that.

[Celtics18]

I'll be interested to see what happens the rest of this season.  One thing that is crystal clear to me over the course of the first twenty-five games is that the Boston Celtics are not tanking. 

No, they aren't a great team, but coach Stevens and his guys look like they are going out to win every game they play.  They are currently at a 36 win pace, with an at least reasonable expectation of upping that pace once their best player returns. 

They are playing well enough to have put the ardent pro-tankers in an absolute tizzy.  I'm enjoying this team, and I very much hope they can continue to win enough games to make those who are adamantly against winning keep sweating. 

Watching a scrappy bunch buck the odds and play above the level that most predicted them to play is plenty of pay off for me.

[celtic -_- pride]

does anyone think DA still wants OJ Mayo ? he's now eligible to be traded and i feel like he's definitely available.

http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/738/trade-season-about-to-get-more-interesting

[PhoSita]

So, if we are going to win 36 games and make the playoffs '5,6 or 7 games below .500', then what does Danny do to change that outcome?

  I'm not sure he'd do anything to change that outcome. People think that nba teams should judge the talent they have on the team, and if they decide that they don't currently have enough talent on the roster they should get as close to the bottom of the standings as they can. The league doesn't work that way, in fact it never really has. Getting really bad is generally a last resort, not the first move out of the gate for every team that doesn't have a James or Durant type of player.

So if he doesn't do anything, we just wait to see if we can wrestle a star from another team and accept our fate as a first round exit?
Even if we lose Bradley, Brooks, Crawford and Humphries- and gain the capspace from those departures, the biggest white elephant in the room is Rondo's looming free agency.
You can say 'I haven't heard anything about him wanting to leave'. But that's not re-assuring enough for me. We are facing a situation in 1.5 seasons where we have a roster of:

Jeff Green
Courtney Lee
Sully
Olynyk
Pressey
Vitor

Gulp.

  Yes, we'll probably let every player who's contract ends leave and not replace any of them. This will continue until we're below the league mandated number of players, after which we'll forfeit every game and end up with the top pick in the draft. Problem solved!

Well, that's probably not how it will go.

Still, this team is lacking the kind of major contributors who will make this team a true contender again.  It would be understandable to view a full season of rebuilding (watching a young, mismatched, developing, struggling team) that doesn't result in the kind of draft pick likely to yield such a player as a wasted opportunity.

  Sure, it's a lost opportunity, it's not the end of hope for years to come. Look, I get that people want a top pick in the draft. We're not contenders this year. Most people agree on that. It would be great to get a top pick in the draft in order to speed up the rebuild. Most people would agree with that as well. You put those two widely agreed upon statements together and come to the conclusion that the team should be as bad as possible.

  But the fact of the matter is that most nba teams don't follow that logic. The Celts may still end up with a bad record and a high draft pick. You just can't assume that's their plan or that they'll make a serious effort to accomplish that.

I don't think there'll be a concerted effort to somehow finish with 20 wins after starting 11-14.

I do think Ainge will look to sell off the role players that have trade value at the deadline, though.

I wouldn't expect Ainge to try to outright sabotage the team to give them a shot at a top 5 pick.  That ship may have already sailed.  But being a major seller at the deadline in the hopes that the team falls out of contention for the division and a lower seed in the playoffs?  That sounds plausible to me.

The Celtics probably won't get that top 5 pick without a lot of luck, but picking 9th or 10th isn't out of reach, and it would be much better than picking 16th or 17th just so we can watch a farcical 1st round playoff matchup between two mediocre teams.

Personally, I'd prefer the Celtics to get Aaron Gordon or Willey Cauley-Stein instead of watching them go 5-6 games against the Pistons or Bobcats. 

[DesertDweller]

there seems to be two schools on how the Celtics should approach this season.....

School #1 known as the "tankers" believe that by literally throwing as many games as possible therefore capturing a top pick in the upcoming draft that might or might not be the guy that lifts #18 in the rafters.
now you can candy coat the language to make it sound better but when all is said and done you want to teach these young guys how to be losers!!!

School #2 we'll call the "Brad Stevens Academy" and by the way, the school my kids will be attending, teaches character and how important playing at the top of your game can be in the future. besides teaching a winning mentality if the Celtics were to just make the playoffs with even the eighth seed, has anyone thought how valuable this playoff experience would be to the young Celtic players like Sully and KO???
I'll say this, if Danny Ainge is tanking, it's for dang sure the coach and players HAVEN'T BEEN NOTIFIED!!!