Minutes distribution when KO returns from injury

[nickagneta]

So if the playoff look like a strong possibility it is incumbent upon this team to continue to play their very best players and try to win. putting bad rookies developments to the background. Why?

Playoff revenue?

. . .

And yes, I don't like Olynyk. One poster seemed to like my quote on him so very much, its in his sig. Glad he loves genius because so far I am a lot more right than wrong.

I'm glad to say that Wyc aren't so short-sighted that they value playoff revenue from a couple of home playoff games as highly as you seem to.


Also I find it interesting that you think you're so much better a talent evaluator than the overwhelming majority of experts (i.e. people who evaluate NBA talent for a living) who have spoken or written publicly about Olynyk.

All I was doing was having some fun patting myself on the back....no need for passive aggressive insults.

And judging from years being on this site, I can name no less than 15 posters who's ability to judge BB talent I value over 99% of the writers covering this game professionally. Being an English major doesn't qualify one for being a great talent evaluator. Nor does being around a game professionally.

[kozlodoev]

Unless Olynyk plays better, the minutes distribution will stay exactly as it is. The one thing that will keep Olynyk on the floor is shooting, and it's nowhere to be found all season.

[PhoSita]

So if the playoff look like a strong possibility it is incumbent upon this team to continue to play their very best players and try to win. putting bad rookies developments to the background. Why?

Playoff revenue?

. . .

And yes, I don't like Olynyk. One poster seemed to like my quote on him so very much, its in his sig. Glad he loves genius because so far I am a lot more right than wrong.

I'm glad to say that Wyc aren't so short-sighted that they value playoff revenue from a couple of home playoff games as highly as you seem to.


Also I find it interesting that you think you're so much better a talent evaluator than the overwhelming majority of experts (i.e. people who evaluate NBA talent for a living) who have spoken or written publicly about Olynyk.

All I was doing was having some fun patting myself on the back....no need for passive aggressive insults.

And judging from years being on this site, I can name no less than 15 posters who's ability to judge BB talent I value over 99% of the writers covering this game professionally. Being an English major doesn't qualify one for being a great talent evaluator. Nor does being around a game professionally.

That's your prerogative, I suppose.

Personally I don't presume to know more than, say, Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress, or David Thorpe, or Danny Ainge (or DA's advisors).  Those guys spend their work days watching college and NBA players and evaluating them.

In any case, appeal to authority aside, Olynyk passes the eye test for me.  He runs well, he typically looks fluid and composed rather than awkward or rushed, and the main thing I see missing from his game so far is getting his jumpshots to fall. 

That would be a pretty significant issue, of course, if it weren't for the fact that his form looks good, his shot selection is pretty solid, and he's shown the awareness and the ability to recognize when his shot isn't falling and find others way to contribute -- e.g. by making smart passes, setting screens, and grabbing boards.

I think Olynyk will definitely benefit from Rondo's return, too, because many times I've seen him move well off the ball to get into position to make something happen and guys like Crawford and Bradley look for their own shot instead.


I don't believe Kelly is ever going to be a star, but I feel pretty good about him becoming a reliable bench role player who can give quality minutes at either big position.  Between him and Faverani, I think we've got a pretty good backup big situation moving forward.  The remaining gap in the rotation is at the starting center spot (and it's a very significant one).


Anyways, since you're so confident in your abilities as a talent evaluator that you're willing to judge players after just a month and a half or so, I'm curious what you thought about Anthony Bennett heading into the draft?

Or how about . . . Otto Porter, or Alex Len?

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=65458.msg1487234#msg1487234

None of the above players, by the way, have shown even half as much as Olynyk, so far.

[hwangjini_1]

true, olly's calling card (making it rain threes) is lacking from his professional career accomplishment list so far. but i see this season as a learning experiment by all the players and coaches.

i would prefer olly to play since he is part of the celtics' future. hump may not even be part of the 2nd half of this season let along the future.

aside from the sss on shooting, i have seen olly improve on defense and on rebounding from his first times on the court. i take that as a positive and we should not ignore that his development involves many skills.

i understand why people want the hump and not the olly on the court. but hump wont play consistently at the level he did last game. and when he is gone, the team will still have olly on board next year. i prefer that next-year-olly to have as much experience as possible for a 2nd year player.

just my preferences.

[PhoSita]

true, olly's calling card (making it rain threes) is lacking from his professional career accomplishment list so far.

Kelly's calling card has never really been raining threes.  I think that's a perception that comes from the comparison that people make to Dirk (largely due to the hair and the fact that Kelly idolizes Dirk).  Kelly actually didn't take very many threes in college.

[YoungOne87]

just play the guys that has it goin each night.

[PhoSita]

just play the guys that has it goin each night.

The issue with this approach is that it's circuitous.  You play the guys that have it going ... but guys don't get going unless they get played. 

Players need consistency and significant minutes to settle into a role and get into a rhythm.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Its a bit left field, but why not send Kelly to the Red Claws?

[PhoSita]

Unless Olynyk plays better, the minutes distribution will stay exactly as it is. The one thing that will keep Olynyk on the floor is shooting, and it's nowhere to be found all season.

If the coaches see good things in practice, I trust that they'll put the players out there and allow them to get comfortable.  I assume that's why Sullinger's been given the green light to shoot threes and generally be aggressive offensively.  Same goes for Crawford and Bradley.

Bradley, by the way, probably wouldn't have ever come into his own as a player unless coaches gave him the chance to work out some of his issues on the floor and shoot himself into a rhythm in actual games.

Prior to Kelly's injury, Stevens had enough confidence in him to put him in the starting lineup and play him significant minutes, even when his shot wasn't falling.  I'm going to assume that wasn't because Stevens was trying to tank or that he just wanted to play young guys for the sake of playing the young guys.

[PhoSita]

Its a bit left field, but why not send Kelly to the Red Claws?

Especially in a season like this, the D-League only makes sense to me if a player looks like they just aren't ready to play at the NBA level -- if they need to work on their conditioning, or just adjust to the speed and physicality of the game.  The only player on the roster who I think fits that criteria at all is Pressey, but the team needs him to play minutes because there are no other backup ball-handlers.

Sending Kelly to the D-League would be fine if the primary goal for the season were trying to win as many games as possible.  But this is a rebuilding year and player development takes precedence.  Kelly has shown enough, in my opinion, that it's clear he can play at this level and he's already got some well developed skills.  Plus, we already saw this summer that he can dominate lesser competition of the sort he'd face in the D-League.

I'm not sure that anything of value would really result from Kelly spending time in Maine, except perhaps if he needed to rehab from his injury or something like that.

[kozlodoev]

Prior to Kelly's injury, Stevens had enough confidence in him to put him in the starting lineup and play him significant minutes, even when his shot wasn't falling.  I'm going to assume that wasn't because Stevens was trying to tank or that he just wanted to play young guys for the sake of playing the young guys.

His shot was never really falling, and it didn't seem like this move was doing anyone a favor: the team was pretty awful when Olynyk was getting major minutes, and I can't imagine that the guys who played better were particularly happy to be passed over this way.

[nickagneta]

Anyways, since you're so confident in your abilities as a talent evaluator that you're willing to judge players after just a month and a half or so, I'm curious what you thought about Anthony Bennett heading into the draft?

Or how about . . . Otto Porter, or Alex Len?

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=65458.msg1487234#msg1487234

None of the above players, by the way, have shown even half as much as Olynyk, so far.

Not sure what I said there that makes you think I was so high on those players.

Do I more thorough search next time and check out how I really feel about the whole draft last year. Picking a few players to say they would be good trash, still makes them trash. And yes, I will say when I am wrong. Last I checked many of those professional scouts and GMs get fired for getting their draft evaluations and talent evaluations wrong year in and year out.

Not going any further with this. Don't like where its going and I made a promise to behave on this site to a friend so, I'm out. Have fun with the last word.

[BballTim]

Maybe Sunshine doesn't get any minutes. Let's face it, he's playing the worst basketball of every Celtic forward not name Wallace and:

C's record playing KO.. 4-10
C's record not playing KO...5-2.

And before you KO fans start getting all crazy, but sorry, he has shown promise in maybe 2 games all year. He's been a stiff otherwise, especially defensively and shooting the ball.

And let's not hear again how he's one of this year's best rookies because this year's group of rooks absolutely suck so that means very little

  I don't think it's that unusual for bigs that aren't picked at the top of the draft to struggle somewhat when they're rookies, and that shouldn't necessarily keep them anchored to the bench. I would have a different opinion if the team had title aspirations but evaluating/developing him has to be something of a priority this year.

I would agree if this team was destined for the bottom of the league. They're not. The rest of the league sucks worse and is tanking harder than they are.

So if the playoff look like a strong possibility it is incumbent upon this team to continue to play their very best players and try to win. putting bad rookies developments to the background. Why?

Playoff revenue?

The Celtics are estimated to make somewhere between $1-1.75 million per playoff game. A six game series, even with a first round loss could generate $5 million.

Tell me what ownership would value more, developing a "complimentary player" or playing well enough to maybe get good enough as a team to get to a second round series and maybe add ass much as $7-10 million in extra cash.

  I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. If the team has playoff aspirations and feels that KO (with some development) would be able to make a contribution in the playoffs if he had some decent experience then they should get him that experience.

[SCeltic34]

Prior to Kelly's injury, Stevens had enough confidence in him to put him in the starting lineup and play him significant minutes, even when his shot wasn't falling.  I'm going to assume that wasn't because Stevens was trying to tank or that he just wanted to play young guys for the sake of playing the young guys.

His shot was never really falling, and it didn't seem like this move was doing anyone a favor: the team was pretty awful when Olynyk was getting major minutes, and I can't imagine that the guys who played better were particularly happy to be passed over this way.

True, KO's shot has been off, and the team's play was often poor when he was on the court.  Not gonna make excuses for the kid, but he's also been battling a bad hamstring.  His shot has been noticeably flat - I'm not sure if this is a product of the bad hammy, lack of comfort taking shots due to the speed of the NBA game, or both. 

KO has positives to his game.  And I think his shots will start falling with some consistency at some point this season as he is a capable shooter.  I won't have any problems with Stevens giving him back his minutes should he choose to do so.

[BballTim]

So if the playoff look like a strong possibility it is incumbent upon this team to continue to play their very best players and try to win. putting bad rookies developments to the background. Why?

Playoff revenue?

. . .

And yes, I don't like Olynyk. One poster seemed to like my quote on him so very much, its in his sig. Glad he loves genius because so far I am a lot more right than wrong.

I'm glad to say that Wyc aren't so short-sighted that they value playoff revenue from a couple of home playoff games as highly as you seem to.

  They might not value it as much as Nick but I'd say that they place a higher priority on winning and making the playoffs than you think they do.