Author Topic: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!  (Read 17209 times)

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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2013, 10:57:46 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2013, 11:13:02 AM »

Offline Jailan34

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The first decision to make from the premise of the OP is that Rajon Rondo stays as a franchise centerpiece. If the Cs were going to rebuild via bottoming out, Rondo makes a good trade asset. But for this exercise, to stay competitive while re-tooling, Rondo must stay.

He is a free agent after the 2014-15 (next) season. Financially, the Cs must be prepared to offer him a substantial extension for the next five years - likely max.

In general for rebuilding teams, it is crucial to not tie up money in role players. But again, in this exercise, it might be wise to make a run at some young players in free agency to bolster the talent on this season even if it is an overpay. Hayward and Monroe come to mind (my personal favorites). Assets for the Cs include the trade exception, future 1sts, Bass, Bradley, and to a lesser extent Lee and Wallace.

Ideally, the Cs put a lineup of Rondo/Hayward/Green/Sullinger/Veteran Center with Crawford/Lee/Wallace/Bass/KO coming off the bench along with a top-10 draft pick
 
Veteran Centers include Okafor (if healthy), Asik or Sanders (potential trade candidates), Varejao (non-guaranteed contract) etc...

For my hypothetical team, I swapped Bradley for Hayward in a sign and trade - a realistic option. Hayward offers good team defense along with a more diverse offensive skill set. This gives Rondo three shooters to disperse the ball to along with a defensive minded center as starters. Instant offense in Crawford, defensive wings, skilled bigs, and a top draft pick coming off the bench. I think this team - along with added 1st round picks in future years - could be a contender assuming Sullinger's continued growth. Boston will likely never be an ideal FA destination for superstars so building through the draft and shrewd (ie non-superstar) FA moves. Hayward is likely the best player that the Cs have a chance at luring to Boston this offseason solely because of the Stevens-Butler connection. Cs will have to overpay to pry him from Utah, but Bradley and a draft pick could get it done. Hayward isn't the man defender that Bradley is, but he is a terrific team defender and can fill the stat sheet in a variety of ways. I'd rather invest long term money into Hayward - a more complete player - than Bradley, who seems to be a defensive specialist at this point in his career.

Where does this top 10 pick come from? We're not tanking in this scenario.

Also on the GH point, I don't think Utah lets him go, also, I believe the suns said they would offer him an unmatchable contract that I don't think he will turn down, so if we do trade for him before seasons end, there will be competition to sign him.

I do however like your plan best so far from the non-tanking perspective, I think GH can be a solid starter/fringe all star.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2013, 11:19:16 AM »

Offline Jailan34

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.

Do you think Houston has a built in advantage with its city/climate though? Because Howard never even considered Boston even if we were a perfect fit a few years ago.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2013, 11:25:40 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.

Do you think Houston has a built in advantage with its city/climate though? Because Howard never even considered Boston even if we were a perfect fit a few years ago.
Mavs
Wiz
Hornet

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2013, 11:27:01 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.

Do you think Houston has a built in advantage with its city/climate though? Because Howard never even considered Boston even if we were a perfect fit a few years ago.

Climate helped with dwight but other players may see value in the celtics tradition. The flexibility was more important for the trade that landed them Harden. Without Harden Dwight never looks at houston.
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Wiz
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2013, 11:30:52 AM »

Offline Jailan34

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.

Do you think Houston has a built in advantage with its city/climate though? Because Howard never even considered Boston even if we were a perfect fit a few years ago.

Climate helped with dwight but other players may see value in the celtics tradition. The flexibility was more important for the trade that landed them Harden. Without Harden Dwight never looks at houston.

If you look through our teams history though, we've never signed that caliber of player, they don't care about our tradition.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2013, 11:35:26 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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The first decision to make from the premise of the OP is that Rajon Rondo stays as a franchise centerpiece. If the Cs were going to rebuild via bottoming out, Rondo makes a good trade asset. But for this exercise, to stay competitive while re-tooling, Rondo must stay.

He is a free agent after the 2014-15 (next) season. Financially, the Cs must be prepared to offer him a substantial extension for the next five years - likely max.

In general for rebuilding teams, it is crucial to not tie up money in role players. But again, in this exercise, it might be wise to make a run at some young players in free agency to bolster the talent on this season even if it is an overpay. Hayward and Monroe come to mind (my personal favorites). Assets for the Cs include the trade exception, future 1sts, Bass, Bradley, and to a lesser extent Lee and Wallace.

Ideally, the Cs put a lineup of Rondo/Hayward/Green/Sullinger/Veteran Center with Crawford/Lee/Wallace/Bass/KO coming off the bench along with a top-10 draft pick
 
Veteran Centers include Okafor (if healthy), Asik or Sanders (potential trade candidates), Varejao (non-guaranteed contract) etc...

For my hypothetical team, I swapped Bradley for Hayward in a sign and trade - a realistic option. Hayward offers good team defense along with a more diverse offensive skill set. This gives Rondo three shooters to disperse the ball to along with a defensive minded center as starters. Instant offense in Crawford, defensive wings, skilled bigs, and a top draft pick coming off the bench. I think this team - along with added 1st round picks in future years - could be a contender assuming Sullinger's continued growth. Boston will likely never be an ideal FA destination for superstars so building through the draft and shrewd (ie non-superstar) FA moves. Hayward is likely the best player that the Cs have a chance at luring to Boston this offseason solely because of the Stevens-Butler connection. Cs will have to overpay to pry him from Utah, but Bradley and a draft pick could get it done. Hayward isn't the man defender that Bradley is, but he is a terrific team defender and can fill the stat sheet in a variety of ways. I'd rather invest long term money into Hayward - a more complete player - than Bradley, who seems to be a defensive specialist at this point in his career.

Where does this top 10 pick come from? We're not tanking in this scenario.

Also on the GH point, I don't think Utah lets him go, also, I believe the suns said they would offer him an unmatchable contract that I don't think he will turn down, so if we do trade for him before seasons end, there will be competition to sign him.

I do however like your plan best so far from the non-tanking perspective, I think GH can be a solid starter/fringe all star.

The top-10 draft pick comes from this season. The Celtics are on pace for 30 wins this season - not because they are tanking - but because they don't have the talent to win more than that. If they were truly tanking than they would hold Rondo out all season, trade Crawford, Bass, and Lee for anything, let Avery take 30 shots per game and let Sullinger shoot more 3 pointers than Ryan Anderson, and play Humphries at point guard.

Being facetious of course...

Assuming the Celtics can avoid winning the division (a scary proposition), then they will have a 6-10 lottery pick in this year's draft.
2013 CB Draft Champions*: Minnesota Timberwolves
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2013, 11:39:15 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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One thing I think is important in a rebuild without tanking is drafting for ceiling. This is high risk but high reward.

Things to look for in prospect,

1. Unfulfilled talent, a player like AB who was a stud recruit who didn't find niche in college. busts anthony randolph, donte green.

2. Red flag free fall, a player projected high who drops on draft night, the good Sully, Pierce the bad gerald green, Perry jones

3. Size for position, a player who may need alot of development but has above average size for his given position. This is the paces niche George 8'11 reach most SF are 8'7, Hibbert just huge and Stephenson  8'7 reach most SG are under 8'6

After drafting talent the next big thing for a rebuild is just avoiding bad contracts and keeping salary flexibility. The Rockets have used there flexibility to build their current team.

Do you think Houston has a built in advantage with its city/climate though? Because Howard never even considered Boston even if we were a perfect fit a few years ago.

Climate helped with dwight but other players may see value in the celtics tradition. The flexibility was more important for the trade that landed them Harden. Without Harden Dwight never looks at houston.

If you look through our teams history though, we've never signed that caliber of player, they don't care about our tradition.

True, my point isnt that the Cs will be a super star free agent destination. My point is that my maintaining flexibility like the rockets did the Cs will be in a position to move on fruitful situations. Like disgruntle stars looking to be traded, future teams looking to drop talent and rebuild, or teams scared of repeater luxury tax.
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2013, 11:41:55 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Continue to acquire and develop assets.  Make smart moves when they present themselves.  Sprinkle in a little good luck along the way. 
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2013, 11:47:42 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Regarding Hayward, Utah has the money to keep him and they hold his restricted FA rights, but prior to the extension deadline, they did not value him at the amount he was asking for.

Both Boston and Phoenix are expected to be in the bidding for his services in addition to Utah - so if both are willing to pay more than Utah, it will come down to who has better sign and trade assets and the player's preference. I think the Stevens' connection is more powerful than the Hornacek one. I also think Bradley or Green is a better trade asset than Bledsoe (unlikely to be traded), Gerald Green, or one of the Morris twins.

The only downside to his acquisition is that the Cs will have to overpay for his services in order to make the Jazz not want to match.
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2013, 12:29:30 PM »

Offline drogbagarnett

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Non Tanking ideal Roster next year :

Rondo - Crawfish - Presssey
Hayward - Bradley - 1st Rd Pick
Green - 1st Rd Pick - FA
Sully - Olynyk - FA
Gasol - Faverani - Iverson


Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2013, 12:36:19 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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So Drogba...

How do you propose they acquire Hayward and Gasol (Marc or Pau?)?

Also, you've slotted the draft pick to be a wing player. Who do you like? Robinson? Selden? Young? Hood? Going broke for Wiggins or Parker?
2013 CB Draft Champions*: Minnesota Timberwolves
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Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2013, 01:28:38 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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There will be market for Sullinger, Olynyk + a lottery pick.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2013, 05:14:45 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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There will be market for Sullinger, Olynyk + a lottery pick.

Are you looking to trade them for a player or higher pick? If player what kind of player are you looking for?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Give me your best non-tanking rebuilding plan!
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2013, 05:15:21 PM »

Offline drogbagarnett

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So Drogba...

How do you propose they acquire Hayward and Gasol (Marc or Pau?)?

Also, you've slotted the draft pick to be a wing player. Who do you like? Robinson? Selden? Young? Hood? Going broke for Wiggins or Parker?

I got to admit pulling it out would be almost impossible realistically but here I'm talking about not so irrealistic dreams of Hayward pouting and not happy and wanted to join the Celtics and HIS coach forcing a sign and trade, and PAU Gasol deciding it's time to go try something new and the lakers not interested in resigning him in favor of some young center not fitting quite well with their teams new additions (Monroe...?)
So I will skip the details and just put the money in and out here, you decide who goes where... Here it is :
Trade Exceptions = 10m
Bigs : Bass + Humpries = 20m
Guards : Lee + Wallace + Bogans + Brooks = 22m
so that's 42m  and a 10 mil trade exception and a bunch of 1st round picks to try and get 2 players... :-)