Love Sully's recent quotes about "tanking"

[Celtics18]

I'll be honest, the idea that we are not supposed to root for our team if we don't see them as favorites to win kind of bugs me.  But, I understand that a lot of fans don't share my philosophy on rooting for a sports team, and I respect that difference in fan philosophy.

I saw this and I wanted to clarify my position.


There are lots of teams in the NBA every single season who are not favorites to win it all.


In fact, there's only one team in the NBA this season that meets that description; it's the Miami Heat.  That's still true despite the fact that the Pacers have gone 16-1.

Even so, there are plenty of teams in the NBA that I'd love to root for as a fan.  Teams that are fringe contenders.  Teams with exciting young players that are still trying to put together that first really successful season.

I don't think it's unreasonable to look at this Celtics team, with 5 shooting guards and 5 centers, and only a couple of currently active players who ought to be starting for a decent team, and say that it's not really meant for our viewing pleasure.  It's hard to get too riled up about a team that I know, in all likelihood, will be nearly completely turned over before the Celtics reach 50 wins again.

The players on the team and the coach aren't stupid.  They have to know it too.  But they're professionals and they're working for the future of their careers as much as some of us fans are cheering for the future of the team and not the present.

Call me naive, but I also happen to believe that they are working for each other and working to be as successful collectively as a basketball as they possibly can be. 

Anyway, we are clearly not going to agree on this or see things the same way.  We simply have different philosophies, and that's fine. 

[PhoSita]

Talk all he wants the record says otherwise.   We just lost to the Bucks could he have timed it better?

  We're a half a game out of first place in the East. We don't really have the "tank" record people were predicting.

Yeah, through the first quarter we haven't played like the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the league, but that's partially because the Nets and Knicks and others who aren't supposed to look so darn bad.

The Atlantic Division is just really, truly pathetic right now, and the Eastern Conference as a whole is having a year for the record books, and not in a good way.

Being so close to the division lead, and having a plausible shot at "earning" the 4th seed in this context is not really something to be especially proud of.


The Celtics currently have the 9th worst record in the league.  There are a few teams below them who I expect to manage to rise much closer to the break-even mark by the end of the season. 

I'd be surprised if the Celtics don't finish securely in the bottom 10.

[BballTim]

Talk all he wants the record says otherwise.   We just lost to the Bucks could he have timed it better?

  We're a half a game out of first place in the East. We don't really have the "tank" record people were predicting.

Yeah, through the first quarter we haven't played like the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the league, but that's partially because the Nets and Knicks and others who aren't supposed to look so darn bad.

The Atlantic Division is just really, truly pathetic right now, and the Eastern Conference as a whole is having a year for the record books, and not in a good way.

Being so close to the division lead, and having a plausible shot at "earning" the 4th seed in this context is not really something to be especially proud of.


The Celtics currently have the 9th worst record in the league.  There are a few teams below them who I expect to manage to rise much closer to the break-even mark by the end of the season. 

I'd be surprised if the Celtics don't finish securely in the bottom 10.

  A couple of teams below the Celts will probably improve, a few teams above them will probably implode. It happens pretty much every year.

[PhoSita]

Talk all he wants the record says otherwise.   We just lost to the Bucks could he have timed it better?

  We're a half a game out of first place in the East. We don't really have the "tank" record people were predicting.

Yeah, through the first quarter we haven't played like the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the league, but that's partially because the Nets and Knicks and others who aren't supposed to look so darn bad.

The Atlantic Division is just really, truly pathetic right now, and the Eastern Conference as a whole is having a year for the record books, and not in a good way.

Being so close to the division lead, and having a plausible shot at "earning" the 4th seed in this context is not really something to be especially proud of.


The Celtics currently have the 9th worst record in the league.  There are a few teams below them who I expect to manage to rise much closer to the break-even mark by the end of the season. 

I'd be surprised if the Celtics don't finish securely in the bottom 10.

  A couple of teams below the Celts will probably improve, a few teams above them will probably implode. It happens pretty much every year.

True, but I think over the course of the season the reshuffling will still result in the Celtics ending up in the bottom third of the league.

I'm not sure that there's a team currently ahead of the Celtics that I'd expect to end up with a worse record than the Celtics.

[Celtics18]

Talk all he wants the record says otherwise.   We just lost to the Bucks could he have timed it better?

  We're a half a game out of first place in the East. We don't really have the "tank" record people were predicting.

Yeah, through the first quarter we haven't played like the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the league, but that's partially because the Nets and Knicks and others who aren't supposed to look so darn bad.

The Atlantic Division is just really, truly pathetic right now, and the Eastern Conference as a whole is having a year for the record books, and not in a good way.

Being so close to the division lead, and having a plausible shot at "earning" the 4th seed in this context is not really something to be especially proud of.


The Celtics currently have the 9th worst record in the league.  There are a few teams below them who I expect to manage to rise much closer to the break-even mark by the end of the season. 

I'd be surprised if the Celtics don't finish securely in the bottom 10.

  A couple of teams below the Celts will probably improve, a few teams above them will probably implode. It happens pretty much every year.

True, but I think over the course of the season the reshuffling will still result in the Celtics ending up in the bottom third of the league.

I'm not sure that there's a team currently ahead of the Celtics that I'd expect to end up with a worse record than the Celtics.

But, we've played the first month of the season without our best player.  You'd think that getting Rondo back will help our team improve as opposed to the other way around.

The other teams that we'll be battling for the final playoff spots can't say they have that caliber of player returning to their rosters. 

 

[PhoSita]

The other teams that we'll be battling for the final playoff spots can't say they have that caliber of player returning to their rosters.

That's true.

As I've said elsewhere, however, I don't think that Rondo's return is going to improve this team by leaps and bounds as some seem to believe it will.

As I've also said elsewhere, I expect Danny to be a seller at the deadline.  In the second half of the season, the team may have a 75% Rondo, but the team will probably not have the same kind of veteran depth it has right now.

[Celtics18]

The other teams that we'll be battling for the final playoff spots can't say they have that caliber of player returning to their rosters.

That's true.

As I've said elsewhere, however, I don't think that Rondo's return is going to improve this team by leaps and bounds as some seem to believe it will.

As I've also said elsewhere, I expect Danny to be a seller at the deadline.  In the second half of the season, the team may have a 75% Rondo, but the team will probably not have the same kind of veteran depth it has right now.

I'm not even talking about "leaps and bounds."  If the team is on just about a 30 win pace without him, I think it's reasonable to expect that pace to go up at least by some percentage.  More than 35 wins doesn't really seem too unrealistic.

Am I crazy to think that this team as currently constituted could be a .500 team with Rondo playing?  Let's say that we are 12 and 20 by the end of December, and Rondo returns for the last 50 games of the season.  If we play .500 ball over that stretch, that would equal 37 wins.  There's a good chance that 37 wins gets in to the playoffs in this year's East.

As far as the selling goes, I simply don't expect Ainge to just sell off players without getting at least equal talent in return. 

[chambers]

Sully has no idea what's going on in the front office.
Of course they want the kids to play hard and try and win every game- that's how their trade value grows.
Sully's numbers against the elite bigs of the NBA in the last 8 games have been amazing. He's looking like a juicy trade asset or a long term keeper right now- either way he's valuable.

Anyway, support the team how you want. We all just want what we feel is best for the Celtics.
I don't think there will be more than 3 or 4 players from this current team on our roster in 18 months. Less than that if Rondo is gone. They are, to me, a bunch of walking trade assets, similarly to 2006.

I'm a fan of championships. To me there's a method to getting the best shot at that Larry Obrien trophy for 5 year periods at a time. It usually involves rolling the dice and potentially stinking for 5 years at a time too. There's just no in between for me- I wont be happy with 2nd round playoff exits for 5 years straight. I want the gold.

Cheer how ya wanna I say.

[PhoSita]

I'm not even talking about "leaps and bounds."  If the team is on just about a 30 win pace without him, I think it's reasonable to expect that pace to go up at least by some percentage.  More than 35 wins doesn't really seem too unrealistic.

Am I crazy to think that this team as currently constituted could be a .500 team with Rondo playing? 

That's not crazy, but in my opinion it's not especially realistic.

The Celtics are indeed on pace for 30 wins, but I think they've taken advantage of a pretty easy schedule so far. 

As for what Danny will do, I agree with you that he won't just trade away guys for the sake of it.  He'll trade them for equal or greater current or future value.  Which right now would mean breathing room under the luxury tax and any sort of minor future asset, even just a second round pick or a minor prospect on a cheap deal.

[BballTim]

I'm not sure that there's a team currently ahead of the Celtics that I'd expect to end up with a worse record than the Celtics.

  That's true. But you don't anticipate any injuries, any trades or any longish slumps from any of the teams above the Celts. We'll probably see all of the above to *some* team/teams, we just don't know *which* teams. Surely you're not claiming we won't?

[BballTim]

I'm not even talking about "leaps and bounds."  If the team is on just about a 30 win pace without him, I think it's reasonable to expect that pace to go up at least by some percentage.  More than 35 wins doesn't really seem too unrealistic.

Am I crazy to think that this team as currently constituted could be a .500 team with Rondo playing? 

That's not crazy, but in my opinion it's not especially realistic.

The Celtics are indeed on pace for 30 wins, but I think they've taken advantage of a pretty easy schedule so far. 

  The Celts have played (as of their last game) the most games in the league, they've played 3 more away games than home games and we've probably played more than half our games against current playoff teams. How easy has the schedule been?

[Celtics4ever]

The schedule has been brutal with a lot of back to backs.

I just don't see the talent there.   Danny put together a roster that plays hard but still loses.   We are a mishmash of parts.   

Soon, I think we will start to play the injury game.   This guy is hurt and that guy is hurt.   Who knows how it will go with Rondo.

Those injuries and the like could happen to us too.

We have a .368 winning percentage.  The best record in the east is .375.   We are a horrible division.  Knicks will probably win the lotto in a last gift from Stern.  Right now we are what the eighth worst team in the league.

Some think we will trade ourselves down.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not even talking about "leaps and bounds."  If the team is on just about a 30 win pace without him, I think it's reasonable to expect that pace to go up at least by some percentage.  More than 35 wins doesn't really seem too unrealistic.

Am I crazy to think that this team as currently constituted could be a .500 team with Rondo playing? 

That's not crazy, but in my opinion it's not especially realistic.

The Celtics are indeed on pace for 30 wins, but I think they've taken advantage of a pretty easy schedule so far. 

  The Celts have played (as of their last game) the most games in the league, they've played 3 more away games than home games and we've probably played more than half our games against current playoff teams. How easy has the schedule been?

And you haven't begun to talk about the amount of back-to-backs we've played so far...

[D.o.s.]

The schedule has been brutal with a lot of back to backs.

I just don't see the talent there.   Danny put together a roster that plays hard but still loses.   We are a mishmash of parts.   

Soon, I think we will start to play the injury game.   This guy is hurt and that guy is hurt.   Who knows how it will go with Rondo.

Those injuries and the like could happen to us too.

We have a .368 winning percentage.  The best record in the east is .375.   We are a horrible division.  Knicks will probably win the lotto in a last gift from Stern.  Right now we are what the eighth worst team in the league.

Some think we will trade ourselves down.

The best record in the east is 16-1. Did you mean the Atlantic?

Also, if the Knicks win the lotto as a last gift from Stern, Denver definitely won the Carmelo Anthony trade.

[TwinTower14]

I really don't think the C's have a choice about tanking?  You see their schedule from now until Mid-January? what a brutal stretch...They have a few winnable games ( Knicks, Nets, Bucks and Cavs ) But then they have to go on the road and play ( Thunder, Nuggets, Clippers, Warriors and Trail Blazers ) then come home and play the Rockets. I think they only win four or five more games heading into mid-January and that counts tonight.  Stevens will continue to get these guys to play hard but at the end of the day talent wins out and this team doesn't have much...