How Larry Legend built a contender

[D.o.s.]

Yes, it is.  It's also worth pointing out that since 2000 9 of the 14 champions were either led a lottery pick that the winning team didn't pick themselves (Miami with Bron x2, Boston with KG, LA w/Shaq x3, Detroit w/Sheed or Billups - your choice) or by a player that wasn't even a top 10 pick (LA w/Kobe x2). If you're going to argue Kobe was the best player on the Shaq Laker teams, he's still low lottery.

No one's going to argue that Kobe was the best player during Shaqobe.

Interestingly, each one of those teams save Detroit did have a home-grown top ten draft pick to pair with their imported leader. Kobe's the outlier there, but if he hadn't sabotaged his value by refusing to play for other teams he would've certainly gone top ten.


And, of course, San Antonio was able to keep Tim Duncan from heading to Orlando by continuing to manage the team smartly, which is obviously the most important factor here.

Edit: looks like IP made the same point earlier.

[kozlodoev]

Ricky Davis.

I thought about him too, but he started his career on some pretty solid Hornets' teams. Though his role there was fairly small, and I guess being the man on a god-awful Cleveland team didn't help.

[BballTim]

Yeah, but Rondo was on that team too. I'm assuming that he's not patently unable of doing the proverbial little things that make a winning team (which in Jefferson's case I'd argue you're being a bit over the top, he's never had a decent team around him..how do we know how good he could or couldn't have done..not that in this last instance it is anyone's fault than his own).

Rondo played a fairly limited role on that team (just the same way Jefferson played a fairly limited role on the 45-win team he was on as a rookie). So I feel the good habits were drilled into him the following year when he was  thrust into a considerably expanded role on a team with much higher aspirations.

Jefferson, by the way, had some pretty decent teams in Utah and all he has to show for it is one 43-win season.

  Yes, they've been playing much better since Jefferson left.

The good teams I am referring to also had Willams, Millsap, Okur, Kirilenko...none of which is with the team any longer. Fact is, the Jazz swapped Boozer for Jefferson, which was considered an upgrade -- and while the rest of their roster remained intact, they went from being a 53-win to a 39-win team, and never really recovered during Jefferson's tenure there.

  Okur barely played on the 39 win team because of injury and Deron was traded mid-season (after the Jazz fired Sloan). I think you're putting too much of the blame on Al.

[kozlodoev]

Okur barely played on the 39 win team because of injury and Deron was traded mid-season (after the Jazz fired Sloan). I think you're putting too much of the blame on Al.

Deron got traded after the 57th game of the season, at which point the Jazz were on pace for a 45-win campaign, or an 8-game drop from the season before. Perhaps this was in part due to Okur's injury, I had forgotten about that. I just remember that I expected them to be much better than they looked.

[PhoSita]

Big Al and Millsap are both quality players.  They were what kept that Jazz roster above water.  That team made the playoffs in a tough Western Conference because of those guys.

Neither Big Al nor Millsap is a star, though.

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

[indeedproceed]

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

I was definitely in line with this before the Bobcats contract. I have no idea what other offers were out there, and it's not fair to hold Big Al wanting money or whatever he feels like he got from Charlotte above playing for a better team (if that was even on the table), but I really felt like it was his 'turn' to go to a decent well rounded team that complimented him. Kinda sad it didn't work out that way.

[Who]

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

I was definitely in line with this before the Bobcats contract. I have no idea what other offers were out there, and it's not fair to hold Big Al wanting money or whatever he feels like he got from Charlotte above playing for a better team (if that was even on the table), but I really felt like it was his 'turn' to go to a decent well rounded team that complimented him. Kinda sad it didn't work out that way.

Not 100% sure about this but I think (if I am remembering this correctly) that I read in an interview with Big Al that he said Charlotte were the only team that made him an offer this summer. Or the only team that pursued him the summer. That there wasn't much interest in him. Something like that. That Charlotte was his only option.

That free agency didn't turn out like he expected. That he didn't have several offers to weigh and choose from. That he was stuck and got only one offer. That FA wasn't what he expected it to be (his 1st time in FA).

[PhoSita]

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

I was definitely in line with this before the Bobcats contract. I have no idea what other offers were out there, and it's not fair to hold Big Al wanting money or whatever he feels like he got from Charlotte above playing for a better team (if that was even on the table), but I really felt like it was his 'turn' to go to a decent well rounded team that complimented him. Kinda sad it didn't work out that way.

Well, I'm disappointed that it looks like Al isn't going to end up on a good team before the very end of his career, too.  Still, I can't really blame him that Charlotte was the only team willing to offer him that kind of money.

The trouble for Al is that he's a very talented player with a bit of a dated game.  Not many rosters are a good fit for a 6'10'', back-to-the-basket center with very little range and limited rim protection ability.  Zach Randolph had a similar problem, but luckily for him he found a good situation, at least for a few years.

[Who]

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

I was definitely in line with this before the Bobcats contract. I have no idea what other offers were out there, and it's not fair to hold Big Al wanting money or whatever he feels like he got from Charlotte above playing for a better team (if that was even on the table), but I really felt like it was his 'turn' to go to a decent well rounded team that complimented him. Kinda sad it didn't work out that way.

Well, I'm disappointed that it looks like Al isn't going to end up on a good team before the very end of his career, too.  Still, I can't really blame him that Charlotte was the only team willing to offer him that kind of money.

The trouble for Al is that he's a very talented player with a bit of a dated game.  Not many rosters are a good fit for a 6'10'', back-to-the-basket center with very little range and limited rim protection ability.  Zach Randolph had a similar problem, but luckily for him he found a good situation, at least for a few years.

Al Jefferson has improved his jump-shot quite a lot over the past few years.

Last year, according to basketball-reference.com, Al Jefferson took 650+ shots inside of 10 feet but another 550+ outside of 10 feet. Jefferson took 200 shots from 10-16 feet and another 350 shots from 16-23 feet hitting 41.6% and 40% respectively from each zone.

Al Jefferson is a pretty well rounded offensive threat nowadays.

Defensively, of course, as you said, is where he is still a problem. A liability at both the PF (too slow) and C position (undersized, lack of team defense + shot-blocking).

[PhoSita]

I don't know why Big Al can't be seen as a decent player just because he's never been able to carry a team to 50 wins by himself.  Lots of very good players never win many games until they end up in a better situation, typically alongside teammates who are equally or even more talented.

I was definitely in line with this before the Bobcats contract. I have no idea what other offers were out there, and it's not fair to hold Big Al wanting money or whatever he feels like he got from Charlotte above playing for a better team (if that was even on the table), but I really felt like it was his 'turn' to go to a decent well rounded team that complimented him. Kinda sad it didn't work out that way.

Well, I'm disappointed that it looks like Al isn't going to end up on a good team before the very end of his career, too.  Still, I can't really blame him that Charlotte was the only team willing to offer him that kind of money.

The trouble for Al is that he's a very talented player with a bit of a dated game.  Not many rosters are a good fit for a 6'10'', back-to-the-basket center with very little range and limited rim protection ability.  Zach Randolph had a similar problem, but luckily for him he found a good situation, at least for a few years.

Al Jefferson has improved his jump-shot quite a lot over the past few years.

Last year, according to basketball-reference.com, Al Jefferson took 650+ shots inside of 10 feet but another 550+ outside of 10 feet. Jefferson took 200 shots from 10-16 feet and another 350 shots from 16-23 feet hitting 41.6% and 40% respectively from each zone.

Al Jefferson is a pretty well rounded offensive threat nowadays.

Defensively, of course, as you said, is where he is still a problem. A liability at both the PF (too slow) and C position (undersized, lack of team defense + shot-blocking).

Al has actually gotten to the point where he's passable defensively at center.  The problem is that teams nowadays rely so much on their centers to cover up mistakes that the guards make.  A center that isn't agile enough to blow up pick and rolls and deter all kinds of shots at the rim holds your team defense back even if he isn't an individual liability in the post or the paint.


Basically, Big Al has the offensive game of a center, but he'd fit much better defensively if he were a bit lighter and quicker so he could actually play at PF and have a bigger, longer center playing next to him.

I guess the ideal situation for him would be playing next to a power forward like Ibaka, Sanders, or Anthony Davis; somebody who can defend quicker power forwards while still performing the paint-roaming duties of a center, allowing Al to defend the opposing center, who isn't likely to be a great offensive threat outside of the restricted area.

[Moranis]

Okur barely played on the 39 win team because of injury and Deron was traded mid-season (after the Jazz fired Sloan). I think you're putting too much of the blame on Al.

Deron got traded after the 57th game of the season, at which point the Jazz were on pace for a 45-win campaign, or an 8-game drop from the season before. Perhaps this was in part due to Okur's injury, I had forgotten about that. I just remember that I expected them to be much better than they looked.

Utah was 31-23 when Sloan quit.  They were 8-20 after Sloan quit with Tyrone Corbin.  Seems to me Jerry Sloan giving up on his team was the reason they went into the crapper.