All these trade Rondo talks..

[Monkhouse]

I understand we're in a rebuilding situation, but it isn't like we're the Bobcats... I consider Rondo a piece, not a superstar, but that missing piece most teams don't have. Now you can give me all the statistics that any point guard hasn't affected, or been a startling component to a ring, but lets ignore that for a second..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyO3B9v6jSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OScInKWOKJo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnc9ez485vI

You have a player who has utmost supreme confidence in his abilities... Half the time he's the fastest player on the floor, is one of the best passers the Celtics have ever been gifted with, very athletic, can drive to the basket, and improved his mid range jumper. He is also a great defender. 2 times 1st team all defense, and 2 times 2nd team all defense, not to boot his 6'9 wingspan with his freakishly big hands.

He's shown us so much in the playoffs. And you can SAY whatever you want about Rondo being gifted with 3 Hall of Famers... But in the past 2 years he's been the best player, and has always made KG/Pierce/Allen 4-5 years younger. There is a reason why KG/Pierce are struggling in the Nets. Rondo is one of the smartest and most intelligent players, who alone, can read their minds and dissect the play before most players can.

18 points, 20 assists, and 17 rebounds against the Knicks?
29 points, 18 rebounds, and 13 assists in a play off game without any OT?
21 points, 8 assists, 7 rebounds, and six steals in the Finals game?
Where he scored the game winning 3, when no one else thought he would against the Sixers?
His hustle play against the Magic?

By the way, he is only one of the players in the NBA with those numbers...

Who else can play with the confidence that only he does?

There is a reason why he's always in the trade rumors... He's one of the biggest assets, but is one of the most important pieces. Half of the terrible trades DA gets only further cements my truest point.

You can't put a price on Rondo, because the Celtics haven't seen someone like him. If he ever got a 3 point shot, and improved his free throws... I would say Rondo would be besting CP3 as the best point guard.

[GratefulCs]

It'd be silly to trade Rondo at this point anyway because of his drop in value due to his injury. 

I love Rondo and think he can be a part of another championship run (assuming he wants to stay here after his contract

[kozlodoev]

I understand we're in a rebuilding situation, but it isn't like we're the Bobcats...

The Bobcats are 6-6 while playing all but 3 games without their best player. So we're arguably worse than the Bobcats right now.

[Chris]

My fear is that if we do trade Rondo, and don't get a real star in return, the Bobcats are exactly what we will be.  Don't give away stars unless you are replacing them with better stars.

[Vermont Green]

Trading Rondo in a bad trade is bad.

Trading Rondo for draft picks, even blue-chip ones is risky (drafting is risking and don't even get me started about the ping pong balls).

Standing pat with Rondo and then watching him sign with the Lakers after next season would be bad.

Signing Rondo to a long term contract and then watch him plateau or blow out his knee is bad.

The point?  No matter what you do, there is risk.  It is just not easy to say what is "best" to do or what not to do with Rondo.

As I look at the choices, I would be hesitant to go max contract with him by extending him before he reaches FA.  If you wait until he reaches FA, way too much risk we lose him. And unless it is Wiggins or Parker, I don't want to trade him for draft picks; we also already have plenty of draft picks.  (Although I like the deal Phili got for Holliday).

What I want is to trade him for Andre Drummond (I know, it is not that easy).

[Moranis]

Every third game or so Rondo is great.  Every third game or so Rondo is average.  Every third game or so Rondo is awful.

You can't ignore 2/3 of his games and just focus on the great ones.  Therein lies the rub with Rondo.  He can be the best player on the floor at times (even when sharing the floor with guys like Lebron James), but he can also be the guy that shoots 4 of 14 from the field, goes 1 of 2 from the line, misses his only 3 point shot, and dishes out only 6 assists in 42+ minutes like he did in the game 4 loss at Philadelphia in the 2012 playoffs.  And sure if that was his only bad game that would be fine, but it was not (he was also bad in the game 4 loss to Atlanta, the game 2 loss to Philadelphia, the game 5 win to Miami, and was mediocre in a number of other games).  Rondo can never be the guy to get a team to where it needs to go, because he can't consistently play at the highest level he can reach and his valleys are monstrous and happen all the time.  You just can't rely on Rondo as you just don't know which Rondo will show up (that is of course when he is healthy which is a real problem for him)

[Celtics18]

Every third game or so Rondo is great.  Every third game or so Rondo is average.  Every third game or so Rondo is awful.

You can't ignore 2/3 of his games and just focus on the great ones.  Therein lies the rub with Rondo.  He can be the best player on the floor at times (even when sharing the floor with guys like Lebron James), but he can also be the guy that shoots 4 of 14 from the field, goes 1 of 2 from the line, misses his only 3 point shot, and dishes out only 6 assists in 42+ minutes like he did in the game 4 loss at Philadelphia in the 2012 playoffs.  And sure if that was his only bad game that would be fine, but it was not (he was also bad in the game 4 loss to Atlanta, the game 2 loss to Philadelphia, the game 5 win to Miami, and was mediocre in a number of other games).  Rondo can never be the guy to get a team to where it needs to go, because he can't consistently play at the highest level he can reach and his valleys are monstrous and happen all the time.  You just can't rely on Rondo as you just don't know which Rondo will show up (that is of course when he is healthy which is a real problem for him)

If having bad games automatically eliminates you from consideration as a great player, then there are no candidates for that category.

Chris Paul:

Game 3 loss to Memphis, 2013:

4 for 11, 4 assists, 5 turnovers, 8 points.

Game 1 loss to San Antonio, 2012:

3-13, 10 assists, 5 turnovers, 6 points.

Game 2 loss to San Antonio, 2012:

4-9, 5 assists, 8 turnovers, 10 points.

I'm not saying that I think Chris Paul isn't a great player.  He is.  Even the best have some poor games sometimes.  The thing about Rondo is his great games in the playoffs far outweigh his sub-par ones.  He's a great playoff performer.  That's why it's helpful to look at his overall numbers, rather than cherry pick a few bad games. 

[LarBrd33]

Say Rondo comes back right after New Years...

That's another 18 games or so from now.  Figure at this pace, we'll have a 9-22 record with about half of the season left to play.


Figure to get to .500 we'd have to go 32-20 over the remaining half of the season.   Pretty unlikely. 

Rondo would have about 24 games until the Feb 20th trade deadline.

My guess is that if Rondo comes back looking like the superstar some folks here seem to think he is... and we start digging out of that 9-22 hole... It causes his trade value to skyrocket.  Instead of getting offers like "Iman Shumpert and cigarettes", teams might actually start manning up and offering real talent for Rondo.  At that point, I fully expect Ainge to pull the trigger on a deal that nets us some Legos.  Then we continue our healthy tank-job for the future.    If for some reason, Ainge doesn't find a pack of Legos he's willing to trade Rondo for, I fully expect Rondo to have unforeseen "set backs" some time after the trade deadline.  He'll sit out the rest of the season while we continue to tank good and proper.  There are at least 7 guys in this draft who could be impact players.  Once we're half way through this season and well on our way to landing one of those guys, I don't think anyone is going to be that excited about attempting to go 32-20 over the remaining half of the season.. just so we can get swept in the 1st round and play ourselves out of a chance at a phenom. 

Alternatively, if Rondo comes back looking mediocre... or fails to cause a major impact on the team's win/loss record...  well at that point, we just probably hang onto him.  D-Rose is well over a year removed from his injury and he looks absolutely awful so far this season.  Just terrible.   So if Rondo comes back and Boston continues on their 25 win trajectory, chances are our trade offers remain at "Shumper + Cigarettes" levels,  Ainge hangs onto the low-impact Rondo... and we take our chances on Rondo during his 2014-15 contract year.  Ultimately, we probably end up trading him anyways for pennies on the dollar so we don't end up losing him for nothing during the summer of 2015.   

[BleedGreen1989]

My fear is that if we do trade Rondo, and don't get a real star in return, the Bobcats are exactly what we will be.  Don't give away stars unless you are replacing them with better stars.

This. If Danny trades Rondo and the return is "meh", I think it will be a pretty colossal mistake. The only rumor that's even sparked my interest in the last year or so is Andre Drummond and that seems like it's not happening anytime soon, if at all.

I think Rondo can be a very important part of a championship and is really just entering his prime. I would prefer to keep him and build around him.

[PhoSita]

What if, rather than playing on a championship caliber team surrounded by Hall of Fame talents, Rondo had spent the first few seasons of his career as the best player on a middle of the road team?  Would people still view him as a superstar?

Case in point -- how highly did Philly fans regard Andre Iguodala before he got traded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44G2AgCxHmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYvsXUkSZOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxV2JDqQFA


Like Rondo, Iguodala is a superb complementary player who can win games all by himself sometimes, but isn't the type of player who can do it night in and night out.

[BleedGreen1989]

What if, rather than playing on a championship caliber team surrounded by Hall of Fame talents, Rondo had spent the first few seasons of his career as the best player on a middle of the road team?  Would people still view him as a superstar?

Case in point -- how highly did Philly fans regard Andre Iguodala before he got traded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44G2AgCxHmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYvsXUkSZOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxV2JDqQFA


Like Rondo, Iguodala is a superb complementary player who can win games all by himself sometimes, but isn't the type of player who can do it night in and night out.

There are maybe 8 players who can win games by themselves "night in and night out".

I'll give you Rondo is not a top 8-10 player.

[PhoSita]

What if, rather than playing on a championship caliber team surrounded by Hall of Fame talents, Rondo had spent the first few seasons of his career as the best player on a middle of the road team?  Would people still view him as a superstar?

Case in point -- how highly did Philly fans regard Andre Iguodala before he got traded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44G2AgCxHmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYvsXUkSZOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxV2JDqQFA


Like Rondo, Iguodala is a superb complementary player who can win games all by himself sometimes, but isn't the type of player who can do it night in and night out.

There are maybe 8 players who can win games by themselves "night in and night out".

I'll give you Rondo is not a top 8-10 player.

I think there are probably a few more than that, although some of them happen to play on the same team so the effect is muted, I suppose.

Still, I'd agree with your point, which is that very few players fit that criteria.  Well, what that means is that very few players ought to be considered untouchable the way that some people regard Rondo.  You should only hold a guy up like that, as a gold-lated cornerstone, if he's in that super-elite category, or he's young and you believe he might develop into that.

[LarBrd33]

What if, rather than playing on a championship caliber team surrounded by Hall of Fame talents, Rondo had spent the first few seasons of his career as the best player on a middle of the road team?  Would people still view him as a superstar?

Case in point -- how highly did Philly fans regard Andre Iguodala before he got traded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44G2AgCxHmA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYvsXUkSZOE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXxV2JDqQFA


Like Rondo, Iguodala is a superb complementary player who can win games all by himself sometimes, but isn't the type of player who can do it night in and night out.

There are maybe 8 players who can win games by themselves "night in and night out".

I'll give you Rondo is not a top 8-10 player.

And there's the rub... some smart people with far better bball knowledge than myself seem pretty convinced there are at least 4 guys in this upcoming draft who qualify.   

The thought process is that it's easier to replace Rondo (a top 10 PG and top 40 player) than it is to acquire a Top 8-10 player who can win you games by himself.   So do you dump Rondo (a top 10 PG/top 40 player) if you can secure a couple future chips who have a shot of developing into Top 40 players... while improving your chances of acquiring a Top 8-10 player through the upcoming transcendent draft? 

Seems like a lot of people think the answer is "yes". 

In other words... would you trade a Rondo/Iggy in his prime for a guy who could end up being a Rondo/Iggy in the future... while improving your chances of landing the next Durant/LeBron? 

[LooseCannon]

In other words... would you trade a Rondo/Iggy in his prime for a guy who could end up being a Rondo/Iggy in the future... while improving your chances of landing the next Durant/LeBron?

To certain degree that is a math question.  Maybe if you're going from 10% to a 80% chance of landing the next Durant/LeBron, but not if you're only going from 10% to 25%.

[BleedGreen1989]

In other words... would you trade a Rondo/Iggy in his prime for a guy who could end up being a Rondo/Iggy in the future... while improving your chances of landing the next Durant/LeBron?

To certain degree that is a math question.  Maybe if you're going from 10% to a 80% chance of landing the next Durant/LeBron, but not if you're only going from 10% to 25%.

Exactly. The increase is not what some people seem to make it out to be.

I always hear a lot of "if", "maybe", "potentially", "one day", ect. What's that saying about a bird and some bushes?

Rondo (healthy) is arguably a top-20 player. Claiming top-40 is quite far from how I view Rondo.