Gut feeling Rondo will be on a plane to Houston for Asik before the deadline

[hpantazo]

Let's go ahead and trade our only allstar for role players.

Trading Rondo for us would be like when Minny traded KG: last resort when everything else fails.  We're nowhere near that bad, and even in the Toine years, we were better.

Imagine trading Pierce and keeping Toine.  That's what trading Rondo and keeping these other guys would be like.

In the trade with Minnesota, we got an aging superstar going into his 13th year while giving up an Andre Drummond type of prospect, another intriguing prospect [at the time] in Gerald Green, the #6 pick in the 09 draft, another first round pick, as well as solid players Gomes and Telfair. Minnesota got quite the haul for KG - if they had chosen Stephen Curry instead of Jonny Flynn, Gerald Green had broken out, and they didn't screw up the Big Al situation, we might be talking about a perennial championship contender.

As for Toine, he was just coming off his third all-star game appearance and another decent playoff run as part of a pretty strong 1-2 punch. Danny Ainge was a new gm and wanted to take the team in a different direction.

Trading Toine for Raef is almost exactly the same thing as trading Rondo for Asik (only difference, and it's a major one, is Raef had 5 years remaining on his horrible contract). It just so happens that we have no one currently better than Rondo.

Wow. I would call Al Jefferson at that time a Sullinger type of prospect much, much more than a Drummond type of prospect. Greg Oden before his knee injuries was more like a Drummond type of prospect.

Except that Greg Oden was much, much better at basketball than Andre Drummond when both of them were drafted.

He was more polished, but as far as potential goes, no, he was not "much, much better"

Sullinger and Jefferson is a "much, much more" reasonable comparison than Jefferson and Drummond.

No one was talking about potential until you brought it up. Oden was a great college basketball player (15.7 [on 61% shooting]/9.6/3.3 blocks in 28 minutes) Andre Drummond (10.0 [on 53% shooting]/7.6/2.7 blocks in 28 minutes) is an immense athlete. Neither of those things invalidate the other.

I agree with your second sentence, though.

I'd say that your reading comprehension has potential. I'd say that your grammar is polished. See the difference?

yea, I hear what you are saying. I thought the initial post was referring to potential because it stated that Jefferson was a Drummond type prospect. I guess I misunderstood what the post was trying to convey

[D.o.s.]

S'all good. Glad you didn't read that last bit to be offensively snarky--I reread it and was all "whooops that could be taken very badly."

[BballTim]

My gut tells me that it is more likely Rondo is the top player on the Celtics for the next five seasons.  It also tells me I want a sandwich.

I really hope not. Not that I don't want him on our team, but if he's the best player we have then it'll be early  playoff exits at best.

  Yes, just like in 2010 and 2012. Notice, just for fun, that the two earliest playoff exits of the 2008-2013 KG era Celts were the year without Rondo and the year Rondo suffered a serious injury in the playoffs.

In 2010, LA dared Rondo to shoot the whole series, which cost us dearly. In 2012, we beat an Atlanta team, that was missing Horford, and then we avoided Chicago because of Rose's injury, and went 7 vs Philly. Again, if Rondo is our best player we aren't going to go that far.I realize your Rondo's unofficial spokesman, so I expect nothing more than an elaborate response detailing the greatness of Rondo in 3...2...1...

  Rondo didn't have his best series against LA in 2010 (he wasn't at his healthiest) and we still probably would have won that series if Perk didn't blow out his knee. In 2012 we didn't have Green or Wilcox or any shooting guard that was healthy enough to play halfway decently. Rondo was our best player, and we did go that far. Claiming we can't win in the playoffs with Rondo as our best player is like claiming he could never lead the league in assists. You've already been proven wrong.

I wouldn't say that Rondo was our best player in 2010. I think flatly saying so discredits KG and Pierce, who often times during those playoffs were our best player. I think all took turns in being our best player.

In 2012, we got lucky. We avoided Chicago in the 2nd rd and that's the truth of the matter. A healthy Rose means we don't get far. So assuming teams are healthy, again that's always the biggest variable, having Rondo as your best player means the odds are long that you'll advance deep into the playoffs. Now, if Rondo is "sometimes" your best player like in 2010, and the rest of the core guys are of similar quality as KG and Pierce of 2010, then yes, we can go far.

  No player is the best player on his team every minute of every game. The Celts and Heat and Bulls were all dealing with injuries in 2012, you can speculate all you want about who would have won if everyone was healthy but that's all it is. Bottom line, we went deep in the playoffs twice in three years with Rondo as our best player and that third year we were in the 2nd round when he had his elbow dislocated. Claiming that the odds are long that we'd go far with Rondo is almost as ridiculous as claiming that having Rondo as your best player means early playoff exits when it never has in the past.

  As for KG in 2010, if you remember that far back he was recovering from his knee injury that year. 14/7 during the season, 15/7 during the playoffs. Not on any all-defense teams, not really considered for all-nba teams. Finished (IIRC) 20th in Rebs/game in the playoffs and got fewer rebounds in the nba finals than his team's point guard. Players on that level might not grow on trees but they aren't impossible to find.

[Eja117]

Let's go ahead and trade our only allstar for role players.

Trading Rondo for us would be like when Minny traded KG: last resort when everything else fails.  We're nowhere near that bad, and even in the Toine years, we were better.

Imagine trading Pierce and keeping Toine.  That's what trading Rondo and keeping these other guys would be like.

KG wasn't coming off a major knee injury with a negative reputation and a rookie coach.  Boston needs to at least look at offers and I wouldn't exactly call Lin or Asik role players.

  They're role players in the sense that players like Bradley or Bass are role players. They're part of the supporting cast, not the players that will lead a team anywhere.

So where exactly is Rondo leading us?  CP3 hasn't won a thing in this league and neither has Derron Williams. Rondo had some very very good teammates and he has one ring to show for it. So where is he leading us?

[BballTim]

Let's go ahead and trade our only allstar for role players.

Trading Rondo for us would be like when Minny traded KG: last resort when everything else fails.  We're nowhere near that bad, and even in the Toine years, we were better.

Imagine trading Pierce and keeping Toine.  That's what trading Rondo and keeping these other guys would be like.

KG wasn't coming off a major knee injury with a negative reputation and a rookie coach.  Boston needs to at least look at offers and I wouldn't exactly call Lin or Asik role players.

  They're role players in the sense that players like Bradley or Bass are role players. They're part of the supporting cast, not the players that will lead a team anywhere.

Asik and Lin are good players, Bradley and Bass are mediocre players.

  The difference isn't that great. Lin and Asik are role players. If you're counting on them for more you're in trouble.

[D.o.s.]

My gut tells me that it is more likely Rondo is the top player on the Celtics for the next five seasons.  It also tells me I want a sandwich.

I really hope not. Not that I don't want him on our team, but if he's the best player we have then it'll be early  playoff exits at best.

  Yes, just like in 2010 and 2012. Notice, just for fun, that the two earliest playoff exits of the 2008-2013 KG era Celts were the year without Rondo and the year Rondo suffered a serious injury in the playoffs.

In 2010, LA dared Rondo to shoot the whole series, which cost us dearly. In 2012, we beat an Atlanta team, that was missing Horford, and then we avoided Chicago because of Rose's injury, and went 7 vs Philly. Again, if Rondo is our best player we aren't going to go that far.I realize your Rondo's unofficial spokesman, so I expect nothing more than an elaborate response detailing the greatness of Rondo in 3...2...1...

  Rondo didn't have his best series against LA in 2010 (he wasn't at his healthiest) and we still probably would have won that series if Perk didn't blow out his knee. In 2012 we didn't have Green or Wilcox or any shooting guard that was healthy enough to play halfway decently. Rondo was our best player, and we did go that far. Claiming we can't win in the playoffs with Rondo as our best player is like claiming he could never lead the league in assists. You've already been proven wrong.

I wouldn't say that Rondo was our best player in 2010. I think flatly saying so discredits KG and Pierce, who often times during those playoffs were our best player. I think all took turns in being our best player.

In 2012, we got lucky. We avoided Chicago in the 2nd rd and that's the truth of the matter. A healthy Rose means we don't get far. So assuming teams are healthy, again that's always the biggest variable, having Rondo as your best player means the odds are long that you'll advance deep into the playoffs. Now, if Rondo is "sometimes" your best player like in 2010, and the rest of the core guys are of similar quality as KG and Pierce of 2010, then yes, we can go far.

  No player is the best player on his team every minute of every game. The Celts and Heat and Bulls were all dealing with injuries in 2012, you can speculate all you want about who would have won if everyone was healthy but that's all it is. Bottom line, we went deep in the playoffs twice in three years with Rondo as our best player and that third year we were in the 2nd round when he had his elbow dislocated. Claiming that the odds are long that we'd go far with Rondo is almost as ridiculous as claiming that having Rondo as your best player means early playoff exits when it never has in the past.

  As for KG in 2010, if you remember that far back he was recovering from his knee injury that year. 14/7 during the season, 15/7 during the playoffs. Not on any all-defense teams, not really considered for all-nba teams. Finished (IIRC) 20th in Rebs/game in the playoffs and got fewer rebounds in the nba finals than his team's point guard. Players on that level might not grow on trees but they aren't impossible to find.

Just chiming in to say that unlike the Celtics, I think you can pretty clearly say that Derrick Rose and LeBron James were the two best players on the Bulls and the Heat, respectively, that year.

[BballTim]

Let's go ahead and trade our only allstar for role players.

Trading Rondo for us would be like when Minny traded KG: last resort when everything else fails.  We're nowhere near that bad, and even in the Toine years, we were better.

Imagine trading Pierce and keeping Toine.  That's what trading Rondo and keeping these other guys would be like.

KG wasn't coming off a major knee injury with a negative reputation and a rookie coach.  Boston needs to at least look at offers and I wouldn't exactly call Lin or Asik role players.

  They're role players in the sense that players like Bradley or Bass are role players. They're part of the supporting cast, not the players that will lead a team anywhere.

So where exactly is Rondo leading us?  CP3 hasn't won a thing in this league and neither has Derron Williams. Rondo had some very very good teammates and he has one ring to show for it. So where is he leading us?

  Hopefully a little bit farther than he has in the past. Not sure what your point is.

[Vermont Green]

I think a trade with Houston STARTING with Rondo and Asik has potential.  How about:

Beverly
Parsons
Asik
[Jones]

for

Rondo
[Vitor]

(I didn't trade check but you get the idea I think). [Represents possible variations from core deal] If you want to take out Beverly and add Lin, I am OK with that but only if they take back Wallace (again, some additional components may be needed to make it actually work).

If Houston gets Rondo, they don't need both Lin and Beverly.  Both are fine PG back-ups behind Rondo  but one would need to come back.  I would prefer Beverly at this point.  Chandler adds some talent at a low cost coming back our way.  Maybe he helps to facilitate another trade if you think Parsons doesn't exactly fit a need right now.

This would not be about equating Asik with Rondo.

[D.o.s.]

I think a trade with Houston STARTING with Rondo and Asik has potential.  How about:

Beverly
Parsons
Asik
[Jones]

for

Rondo
[Vitor]

(I didn't trade check but you get the idea I think). [Represents possible variations from core deal] If you want to take out Beverly and add Lin, I am OK with that but only if they take back Wallace (again, some additional components may be needed to make it actually work).

If Houston gets Rondo, they don't need both Lin and Beverly.  Both are fine PG back-ups behind Rondo  but one would need to come back.  I would prefer Beverly at this point.  Chandler adds some talent at a low cost coming back our way.  Maybe he helps to facilitate another trade if you think Parsons doesn't exactly fit a need right now.

This would not be about equating Asik with Rondo.

I don't think Houston goes for that if there isn't another wing capable of playing either forward spot and sinking spot up and transition 3's coming back their way.

[Ogaju]

I signed on to forums to make this post, but it was already made. I agree. Rondo is going to end up in Houston for some package that includes ASIK.

[Eddie20]

My gut tells me that it is more likely Rondo is the top player on the Celtics for the next five seasons.  It also tells me I want a sandwich.

I really hope not. Not that I don't want him on our team, but if he's the best player we have then it'll be early  playoff exits at best.

  Yes, just like in 2010 and 2012. Notice, just for fun, that the two earliest playoff exits of the 2008-2013 KG era Celts were the year without Rondo and the year Rondo suffered a serious injury in the playoffs.

In 2010, LA dared Rondo to shoot the whole series, which cost us dearly. In 2012, we beat an Atlanta team, that was missing Horford, and then we avoided Chicago because of Rose's injury, and went 7 vs Philly. Again, if Rondo is our best player we aren't going to go that far.I realize your Rondo's unofficial spokesman, so I expect nothing more than an elaborate response detailing the greatness of Rondo in 3...2...1...

  Rondo didn't have his best series against LA in 2010 (he wasn't at his healthiest) and we still probably would have won that series if Perk didn't blow out his knee. In 2012 we didn't have Green or Wilcox or any shooting guard that was healthy enough to play halfway decently. Rondo was our best player, and we did go that far. Claiming we can't win in the playoffs with Rondo as our best player is like claiming he could never lead the league in assists. You've already been proven wrong.

I wouldn't say that Rondo was our best player in 2010. I think flatly saying so discredits KG and Pierce, who often times during those playoffs were our best player. I think all took turns in being our best player.

In 2012, we got lucky. We avoided Chicago in the 2nd rd and that's the truth of the matter. A healthy Rose means we don't get far. So assuming teams are healthy, again that's always the biggest variable, having Rondo as your best player means the odds are long that you'll advance deep into the playoffs. Now, if Rondo is "sometimes" your best player like in 2010, and the rest of the core guys are of similar quality as KG and Pierce of 2010, then yes, we can go far.

  No player is the best player on his team every minute of every game. The Celts and Heat and Bulls were all dealing with injuries in 2012, you can speculate all you want about who would have won if everyone was healthy but that's all it is. Bottom line, we went deep in the playoffs twice in three years with Rondo as our best player and that third year we were in the 2nd round when he had his elbow dislocated. Claiming that the odds are long that we'd go far with Rondo is almost as ridiculous as claiming that having Rondo as your best player means early playoff exits when it never has in the past.

  As for KG in 2010, if you remember that far back he was recovering from his knee injury that year. 14/7 during the season, 15/7 during the playoffs. Not on any all-defense teams, not really considered for all-nba teams. Finished (IIRC) 20th in Rebs/game in the playoffs and got fewer rebounds in the nba finals than his team's point guard. Players on that level might not grow on trees but they aren't impossible to find.

KG was playing 33 mpg during the playoffs and the value he brought to our team far exceeded anything that can be calculated by stats.

At the end of the day, the argument is pretty simple. If you have a top 10 player then he can lead your team deep into the playoffs. If you don't, then things will have to break extremely well (2012 for example) in order to get passed the second round. However, that's a question you always dodge. You love bringing numbers into an argument, but I've yet to get your opinion on where you rank Rondo. Is he top 5? Top 10? Top 20? Hopefully you rank him as highly as you speak of him.

[Vermont Green]

I think a trade with Houston STARTING with Rondo and Asik has potential.  How about:

Beverly
Parsons
Asik
[Jones]

for

Rondo
[Vitor]

(I didn't trade check but you get the idea I think). [Represents possible variations from core deal] If you want to take out Beverly and add Lin, I am OK with that but only if they take back Wallace (again, some additional components may be needed to make it actually work).

If Houston gets Rondo, they don't need both Lin and Beverly.  Both are fine PG back-ups behind Rondo  but one would need to come back.  I would prefer Beverly at this point.  Chandler adds some talent at a low cost coming back our way.  Maybe he helps to facilitate another trade if you think Parsons doesn't exactly fit a need right now.

This would not be about equating Asik with Rondo.

I don't think Houston goes for that if there isn't another wing capable of playing either forward spot and sinking spot up and transition 3's coming back their way.

But that is kind of my point.  This is a reasonable trade that doesn't cripple the core of either team but actually ended up being a little too heavily weighted towards Boston.  My point being that Houston can put together a package of value that would warrant trading Rondo.  Matching up exactly is never easy but there are going to be ways to trade Rondo that can be a Boston win.

This exact trade may not be it but I feel it is pretty close.  Building a trade around Rondo and Asik is not at all out of the realm of possibility.  Maybe you add in the Lin and Wallace pieces and give them back a SF.

[D.o.s.]

Aha, I see. I'm on your page now.

[ssspence]

Haven't read through this thread, but I'll just point out that there's no way Rondo will be traded for a package where Asik is the prime asset. Could Asik be in it? Yes. Could he be the biggest salary? Yes. But Ainge isn't trading Rondo for Asik and change... unless its some very compelling change.

[TheTruthFot18]

I would give up on the celtics if DA did this. I understand if he gets traded, but not for this. ever